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01-26-2013, 08:37 AM
  #101
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honestly didnt think i would see a trade stepan thread this early in his career

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01-26-2013, 08:49 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by blooblood View Post
honestly didnt think i would see a trade stepan thread this early in his career
Well, I mean, you havent. Noone is saying to trade Stepan.

As for the other people whining about a little criticism of the players, give me a break. This isnt a Mike Rupp or Stu Bickel thread. Stepan's development is not just a major issue this season, it might be THE biggest issue. If Stepan cant be a consistent contributor centering the 2nd line, this team is in a lot of trouble.

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01-26-2013, 09:04 AM
  #103
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I like DS. I'm fascinated by his skill set and the arc of his career to date. Speculating on how he will develop and projecting him down the road is certainly interesting. But that doesn't mean I can't be unhappy with what I see and worried about his contributions to the team. It's not meant as a direct criticism of him or an attack on Ranger coaching or management.

I try to honestly assess what I see based on game performance and reading about the team. I always try to see the humanity in every situation and realize that players, accept for ungodly skills, are no different than you or me.

I am fanatically loyal to my team and have been for over 50 years. That doesn't mean I can't be somewhat critical. Doesn't mean I have to accept every player unconditionally. Doesn't mean that even if I am concerned about DS that I don't think he can do better.

We need him to do well badly and I hope he picks up his play.

As one of the guys on XM said (to paraphrase) "now that the season has begun we can all go back to doing what we all do best....being frustrated with our team."

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01-26-2013, 09:17 AM
  #104
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This board acts like they want to see young guys come in and earn time and contribute, but then at the first sign a player has a rough patch or slow point in this development, they get tired of them and want them gone.

Sauer, Girardi, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Stepan. How long before it's Kreider?

For what it's worth: Marc Savard's first 2 seasons in the NHL, he was traded to Calgary after the 45 pt season. That one worked out well for us.

Age - GP - G - A - Pts
21 - 70 - 9 - 36 - 45
22 - 78 - 22 - 31 - 53

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01-26-2013, 09:19 AM
  #105
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And more....after thinking about my post.

I obviously don't know DS personally....don't know what motivates or drives him. All I can do is evaluate him on what I see on the ice and impressions I get of him in interviews and what others who do know him say about him.

Here is my main concern and its not his skill set or average skating:

I thought, based on his captaincy of the US Junior team when they won gold that we were getting a player with leadership skills who would grow into a future leader of the team. Who one day down the road could wear an "A" or even the "C." I also realize that he is still young and there is certainly a lot of veteran leadership on the team and he needs to pay his dues. But I envisioned him as one of the leaders of our young core who would, at some point, begin to take ownership of the team.

What I question now, again based on only a limited sample and recognizing I could be totally and absolutely wrong, is does he have that inner engine, that compete level, that will allow him to rise above his skills and become a really fine NHL player? It is that inner engine, that drive, that motivation, that willingness to put in the extra time that separates the marginal from the average, the average from the good, the good from the great.

The lack of growth I see from DS, again recognizing that he is still very young and it only has been 2+ years, that is my major concern. Does he have that inner engine that will make him a superb, 20 G 40 A second line center that can sometimes move up to the first line, or have we seen the best of him and he will always be what he is now: an adequate 2nd line center, who when he reaches his late 20s and his skating loses a step, will slowly disappear from the league.

I'm still hoping that he has, or finds that extra inner gear.

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01-26-2013, 09:31 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
This board acts like they want to see young guys come in and earn time and contribute, but then at the first sign a player has a rough patch or slow point in this development, they get tired of them and want them gone.

Sauer, Girardi, Del Zotto, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Stepan. How long before it's Kreider?

For what it's worth: Marc Savard's first 2 seasons in the NHL, he was traded to Calgary after the 45 pt season. That one worked out well for us.

Age - GP - G - A - Pts
21 - 70 - 9 - 36 - 45
22 - 78 - 22 - 31 - 53
Look, the dynamic has changed - the Rangers are somewhere they havent been in 20 years, in the Stanley Cup conversation early in a season. So, while its warm and fuzzy to talk about the upside of Stepan, Kreider, etc, the reality is its much more important to evaluate what they can give this team right now.

Lundqvist, Nash, Richards, Gaborik, and a strong top 4 defense corp are the major reasons this team seems poised to compete. Those first 4 guys will likely be gone or declining by the time Stepan and Kreider hit their peak.

The window is open right now, so excuse me if the "hes young and he will be fine" excuse doesnt work for me this season.

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01-26-2013, 09:39 AM
  #107
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I'd only miss Stepan's mom if he was traded , not sure how his Dad pulled that one off .

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01-26-2013, 10:00 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Look, the dynamic has changed - the Rangers are somewhere they havent been in 20 years, in the Stanley Cup conversation early in a season. So, while its warm and fuzzy to talk about the upside of Stepan, Kreider, etc, the reality is its much more important to evaluate what they can give this team right now.

Lundqvist, Nash, Richards, Gaborik, and a strong top 4 defense corp are the major reasons this team seems poised to compete. Those first 4 guys will likely be gone or declining by the time Stepan and Kreider hit their peak.

The window is open right now, so excuse me if the "hes young and he will be fine" excuse doesnt work for me this season.
So then what would you rather do? Trade him for a vet?

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01-26-2013, 10:02 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
So then what would you rather do? Trade him for a vet?
No. I want him to play better.

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01-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #110
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I actually think Stepan's been much better the last two games than he was the first two. Still not where he needs to be, but headed in the right direction.

Honestly, I know it's a short season, but can we at least get to the 12-15 game mark before we start proposing major changes like trading Stepan?

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01-26-2013, 10:12 AM
  #111
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What fun would that be

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01-26-2013, 10:20 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I actually think Stepan's been much better the last two games than he was the first two. Still not where he needs to be, but headed in the right direction.

Honestly, I know it's a short season, but can we at least get to the 12-15 game mark before we start proposing major changes like trading Stepan?
Again, no oone has proposed that. I dont think anyone will after 12-15 games.

In college and in his international career, Stepan was a dynamic playmaker. To be honest, I havent seen much of that since hes been a Ranger. It needs to bud quickly, especially this year. In my opinion, Stepan needs to be the catalyst for the second line. He needs to make guys like Callahan, Hagelin, and Kreider better. Im apprehensive that an easy fix is just going to be to throw one of Nash or Gaborik on his wing. I hope that happens, but Stepan is going to have to step up his game in a major way.

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01-26-2013, 10:31 AM
  #113
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Both CALLY and Hags are opportunistic players that swarm and jump on loose pucks and score by extra effort . What Step and the NYR in general have and do need is someone who can one time the puck and on net on the regs . Still woulda like to have had Semin on a one year deal for second line and PP depth

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01-26-2013, 10:32 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Again, no oone has proposed that. I dont think anyone will after 12-15 games.

In college and in his international career, Stepan was a dynamic playmaker. To be honest, I havent seen much of that since hes been a Ranger. It needs to bud quickly, especially this year. In my opinion, Stepan needs to be the catalyst for the second line. He needs to make guys like Callahan, Hagelin, and Kreider better. Im apprehensive that an easy fix is just going to be to throw one of Nash or Gaborik on his wing. I hope that happens, but Stepan is going to have to step up his game in a major way.
Fair enough.

I'm very curious to see what we see from all sorts of players this year - and, by the same token, am kind of wary of making too many judgments based on what is likely to be an outlier (up or down) in many players' careers...

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01-26-2013, 10:49 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
All, all I ever see here is an endless stream of entitled complaints. What it has to do with Stepan, is that he is the single best center iceman we have drafted and produced since Savard. But, when times get tough in the NYR organization, fans turn to try to attack individual players including Stepan, simply because they themselves just can't handle the fact that for the first week of the season, the team didn't play as well as they expected.

People need to learn to follow a team. There doesn't need to be a scapegoat. You don't need to scream at a guy you don't like, or ask for the coach to be fired. The fact that we have threads going at half of this team's roster right now is comical bordering on embarrassing.
Points wise yea he's produced about as good as any though he did get many years in college so that does influence the comparison.

I always personally really liked Anisimov more that's just me and I wish we had traded Stepan instead. I worry that he's not making improvements he should be and does not contribute enough around the ice. As always though I admit i'm limited in my hockey knowledge and tho many share my thoughts on this I admit I may be missing things. I always hope to be wrong too when it comes to criticizing a ranger player. Stepan has certainly made great plays and is a tremendous lplayer in many ways to make it this far but I hope he becomes more noticeable and helps us win more.

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01-26-2013, 04:06 PM
  #116
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I'm not sold on the Gaborik-Richards-Nash line yet. They had a great game against Boston and were good last night. But a guy like Stepan needs a scorer to play with him.
You mean a scorer to carry him? The true mark of a playmaker is that he can make the players around him better, and Stepan does not.

When Gaborik left him in the final stretch of last season, Stepan was a no show, and it carried into the post season where he remained largely ineffective. If you need a 40+ goal scorer with you to make an impact, your not much of a player. Without Gaborik, he probably would have struggled passing the 40 point mark last season. He was tracking for 60 points, Gaborik went to Richards, and Stepan barely finished with 50.

Im not sold on him as a 2nd line center. He needs to prove more on his own. He should be able to do fine with our 25-30g captain, and another winger. If he cant... he isnt a 2nd line center.

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01-29-2013, 03:57 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I have my doubts about his future viability as a 2nd line Center in the NHL. He does not bring his A-game consistently at all. Too often he is not a difference maker or or making an impact during his shifts. Many shifts you hardly notice that he was even out there.
I think he retains an overall 2c status most of his career, not in the class w/mo elite pivots.

But intangibles and passing only take you so far.


Last edited by JeffMangum: 01-29-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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01-30-2013, 07:53 AM
  #118
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he had a few golden opportunities to come up with a goal last night and couldn't bury it. good sign that he's closer or will the penalty kill the momentum he had?

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01-30-2013, 08:02 AM
  #119
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he had a few golden opportunities to come up with a goal last night and couldn't bury it. good sign that he's closer or will the penalty kill the momentum he had?
He had some chances - he's playing a bit better, but still has a long way to go.

He just looks slow out there. His skating, his decision making, everything.

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01-30-2013, 08:40 AM
  #120
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I think it's perfectly fine and valid to have concerns about Stepan at this point. That being said, the hallmark of all young players is inconsistency. Some players grow out of it, some players do not. It's too early in Stepan's career to know either way.

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01-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  #121
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The problem is we are so shallow down the middle that we have a 3rd line center playing on the 2nd line.

He does appear to be regressing. I'm not sold on him, whatsoever. He's looked pretty useless out there.

And yes, he could be this year's Dubinsky. Another player people over-hyped, but is actually pretty mediocre. Hopefully he proves me wrong and starts producing, because he's going to need to be productive for this team to make any kind of a serious run.

Outside of the big 3, our forwards are pathetic, right now.

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01-30-2013, 09:08 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
The problem is we are so shallow down the middle that we have a 3rd line center playing on the 2nd line.

He does appear to be regressing. I'm not sold on him, whatsoever. He's looked pretty useless out there.

And yes, he could be this year's Dubinsky. Another player people over-hyped, but is actually pretty mediocre. Hopefully he proves me wrong and starts producing, because he's going to need to be productive for this team to make any kind of a serious run.

Outside of the big 3, our forwards are pathetic, right now.
You really think Stepan is a 3rd line player? Really? 50+ points + PP and PK time on the 1st place team in the East and he is a 3rd liner? Oh and he was 21.

I'm sorry, I don't buy that. People get too high when players play well and too low when they aren't playing well.

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01-30-2013, 09:21 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
The problem is we are so shallow down the middle that we have a 3rd line center playing on the 2nd line.

He does appear to be regressing. I'm not sold on him, whatsoever. He's looked pretty useless out there.

And yes, he could be this year's Dubinsky. Another player people over-hyped, but is actually pretty mediocre. Hopefully he proves me wrong and starts producing, because he's going to need to be productive for this team to make any kind of a serious run.

Outside of the big 3, our forwards are pathetic, right now.
Again..I wonder who are our big 3?..Do we really have a Big 3?...Nash has 1 goal and 6 point's, making how many Million? ..Richard's, who again last night was Invisible making what $7 Mill a season? Has 2 goals and 6 point's?.. Stepan has 4?. I don't undertand the fasination with Richard's.. What has he done so much better than Stepan-Hagelin-Krieder..That he doesn't deserve his own "Richard's Invisible again" thread?. Very unspectacular since his arrival in NY IMO..Just sayin'.. Let's start putting pressure on the Overpaid vets before we jump on the 20 year old's who are still developing..

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01-30-2013, 09:47 AM
  #124
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You really think Stepan is a 3rd line player? Really? 50+ points + PP and PK time on the 1st place team in the East and he is a 3rd liner? Oh and he was 21.

I'm sorry, I don't buy that. People get too high when players play well and too low when they aren't playing well.
I agree with you, but right now, he's a 3rd line player. He disappears for way too many games (a la Dubinsky). He looks to be getting worse (a la Dubsinky).

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01-30-2013, 09:48 AM
  #125
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It has been 6 games, he has 4 points.

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