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Old
01-30-2013, 09:11 AM
  #101
SoupyFIN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
If this franchise firstpicks another defenseman I will murder a kitten.
Now guys, don't plan anything irrational..

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 View Post
if we took jones at #1 i'd go on a hulk-like rampage
Well, this escalated quickly.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:22 AM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
If this franchise firstpicks another defenseman I will murder a kitten.
If that "kitten" is Yormark, Im ALL FOR DRAFTING JONES!!!

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:23 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
I think we'll find it here within a day.
TSN will post the list though online probably around 11pm ET so we wont have to wait even a day to see how it looks and some scouting reports on the players too.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaebriel View Post
If this franchise firstpicks another defenseman I will murder a kitten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 View Post
if we took jones at #1 i'd go on a hulk-like rampage
Agree! Agree! Agree!

We need a high end forward. Guys like Weber, Karlsson, etc can be had throughout the first and second round because it's much more random with d-men. It's so much harder to project them into the NHL than forwards and they take a longer time to develop.

A quick look shows you where the first forward(s) and first d-men were picked in their drafts.


2001 - highest picked D - Mike Komisarek#7, Kovalchuck was the forward at #1
2002 - Jay Bouw - We should have picked Rick Nash. Jay Bouw was supposed to be a franchise d-man too at the time. Pitkanen and Ryan Whitney came next.
2003 - Ryan Suter @ 7 MAF @1, E.Staal#2
2004 - Cam Barker #3 - Ovechkin, Malkin 1, 2
2005 - Jack Johnson #3, Crosby, Ryan
2006 - Erik Johnson #1, J.Staal 2, Toews3
2007 - Patrick Kane #1, Thomas Hickey #4
2008 - Stamkos #1, Doughty2
2009 - Tavares, #1, Hedman 2


I know some will say draft Seth Jones, he's the franchise d-man we need and we can trade Kulikov for a forward. That's kind of crazy. Unless Tallon trades Kulikov in advance for a top line forward this would be too risky of a move.

I also don't want to turn into a team like Nashville who always had a great d-core but struggled to score. The teams that make it deep into the playoffs, year after year, have a couple of high end forwards. Toews/Kane, Crosby/Malkin, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Sedin/Sedin, Thornton/Marleau, Kovalchuk/Parise, etc. Right now, we have none. Lets get a forward better than Hubs/Bjugstad like on the level of Tavares or Eric Staal type guy and we'll move closer to becoming a perennial playoff team.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:35 AM
  #105
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Only way I'd take Jones is if we're picking at 4 or 5 and he falls because people skip over d-men like teams did with Adam Larsson. And I'd still be hesitant.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:15 AM
  #106
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One major problem guys about our epic tanking. We don't know how the new draft rules work yet, all I know is that all the 14 teams that miss the playoffs will have a chance at drafting 1st.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:19 AM
  #107
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isnt mackinnon a center? Bjugstad, shore, grimaldi, and mackinnon would be down the middle not including weiss. A log jam?

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01-30-2013, 11:22 AM
  #108
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yea, i have our draft list as mackinnon, barkov, drouin, then jones at 4. but even then i could see us trading back one spot and getting monahan or 2 spots and getting lindholm. if we don't, then we'd take him at 4 and trade kulikov for offense. but no doubt we take mackinnon at 1.

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01-30-2013, 11:24 AM
  #109
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if we took him itd be mackinnon, bjugstad, goc/shore. weiss would be traded at the deadline, or trade his rights in the offseason.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:29 AM
  #110
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Rather have an issue with too many center prospects, than not having enough quality ones.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:29 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by PanthersHockey1 View Post
isnt mackinnon a center? Bjugstad, shore, grimaldi, and mackinnon would be down the middle not including weiss. A log jam?
Grimaldi will be playing on the wing if he even makes the team. He's at least two more seasons away from having a shot. More likely another year or two in college, then at least year in the AHL.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:36 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
Rather have an issue with too many center prospects, than not having enough quality ones.
Exactly. Sharks have a full 1st line of centers, as Marleau and Pavelski both are able and used to play that position.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:49 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Agree! Agree! Agree!

We need a high end forward. Guys like Weber, Karlsson, etc can be had throughout the first and second round because it's much more random with d-men. It's so much harder to project them into the NHL than forwards and they take a longer time to develop.

A quick look shows you where the first forward(s) and first d-men were picked in their drafts.


2001 - highest picked D - Mike Komisarek#7, Kovalchuck was the forward at #1
2002 - Jay Bouw - We should have picked Rick Nash. Jay Bouw was supposed to be a franchise d-man too at the time. Pitkanen and Ryan Whitney came next.
2003 - Ryan Suter @ 7 MAF @1, E.Staal#2
2004 - Cam Barker #3 - Ovechkin, Malkin 1, 2
2005 - Jack Johnson #3, Crosby, Ryan
2006 - Erik Johnson #1, J.Staal 2, Toews3
2007 - Patrick Kane #1, Thomas Hickey #4
2008 - Stamkos #1, Doughty2
2009 - Tavares, #1, Hedman 2


I know some will say draft Seth Jones, he's the franchise d-man we need and we can trade Kulikov for a forward. That's kind of crazy. Unless Tallon trades Kulikov in advance for a top line forward this would be too risky of a move.

I also don't want to turn into a team like Nashville who always had a great d-core but struggled to score. The teams that make it deep into the playoffs, year after year, have a couple of high end forwards. Toews/Kane, Crosby/Malkin, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Sedin/Sedin, Thornton/Marleau, Kovalchuk/Parise, etc. Right now, we have none. Lets get a forward better than Hubs/Bjugstad like on the level of Tavares or Eric Staal type guy and we'll move closer to becoming a perennial playoff team.

By top-line forward I assume you mean a guy like Kessel or Kovalchuk. That being said..

No way in Satan's Hell will we get a top-line forward for Kulikov.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:54 AM
  #114
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If there's a year to tank, this is it. This is one of the strongest draft classes to come along in years, especially when it comes to high end forwards. If we were selecting #1, I couldn't fathom passing on Nathan Mackinnon. The kid does everything, competes in all 3 zones, battles on the faceoffs... oh, and he puts the puck in the net. He could be exactly the line mate Huberdeau needs.

Also, rule of thumb, when drafting prospects, teams don't worry about what's already in the pipeline or on the NHL team. All they care about is the talent and upside of a player. So it doesn't matter we're loaded with center prospects, if a center is the BPA, we would take him.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:09 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Well, this escalated quickly.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:48 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Agree! Agree! Agree!

We need a high end forward. Guys like Weber, Karlsson, etc can be had throughout the first and second round because it's much more random with d-men. It's so much harder to project them into the NHL than forwards and they take a longer time to develop.

A quick look shows you where the first forward(s) and first d-men were picked in their drafts.


2001 - highest picked D - Mike Komisarek#7, Kovalchuck was the forward at #1
2002 - Jay Bouw - We should have picked Rick Nash. Jay Bouw was supposed to be a franchise d-man too at the time. Pitkanen and Ryan Whitney came next.
2003 - Ryan Suter @ 7 MAF @1, E.Staal#2
2004 - Cam Barker #3 - Ovechkin, Malkin 1, 2
2005 - Jack Johnson #3, Crosby, Ryan
2006 - Erik Johnson #1, J.Staal 2, Toews3
2007 - Patrick Kane #1, Thomas Hickey #4
2008 - Stamkos #1, Doughty2
2009 - Tavares, #1, Hedman 2


I know some will say draft Seth Jones, he's the franchise d-man we need and we can trade Kulikov for a forward. That's kind of crazy. Unless Tallon trades Kulikov in advance for a top line forward this would be too risky of a move.

I also don't want to turn into a team like Nashville who always had a great d-core but struggled to score. The teams that make it deep into the playoffs, year after year, have a couple of high end forwards. Toews/Kane, Crosby/Malkin, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Sedin/Sedin, Thornton/Marleau, Kovalchuk/Parise, etc. Right now, we have none. Lets get a forward better than Hubs/Bjugstad like on the level of Tavares or Eric Staal type guy and we'll move closer to becoming a perennial playoff team.
But there's no guarantee that MacKinnon is better than Huberdeau. Just because you draft a forward doesn't mean you'll get better production. Look at Hubderdeau so far this year.

Why not trade for a proven forward that could help the young guys already in our system much like we have veteran D-men who have probably helped the other D-men out?

I want a proven scoring line player already. Tired of relying on the draft to get that guy. As it is, if we don't have that guy yet, Tallon has done a poor job and it really doesn't matter. Guys like Huberdeau and Bjugstad better become that guy or else it's really all irrelevant.

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01-30-2013, 02:17 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
But there's no guarantee that MacKinnon is better than Huberdeau. Just because you draft a forward doesn't mean you'll get better production. Look at Hubderdeau so far this year.

Why not trade for a proven forward that could help the young guys already in our system much like we have veteran D-men who have probably helped the other D-men out?

I want a proven scoring line player already. Tired of relying on the draft to get that guy. As it is, if we don't have that guy yet, Tallon has done a poor job and it really doesn't matter. Guys like Huberdeau and Bjugstad better become that guy or else it's really all irrelevant.
Then why not just trade our first round pick to get a proven guy? Oh cause no one will like that idea, right?

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:26 PM
  #118
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Then why not just trade our first round pick to get a proven guy? Oh cause no one will like that idea, right?
I wouldn't cry if that happened, to be honest...

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:41 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Rypien Farts View Post
By top-line forward I assume you mean a guy like Kessel or Kovalchuk. That being said..

No way in Satan's Hell will we get a top-line forward for Kulikov.
A package with Kulikov as the centerpiece would certainly get this team a top line forward.

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01-30-2013, 02:55 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
I wouldn't cry if that happened, to be honest...
The question becomes who could you get for that pick. What scoring forward is on the block that is worth a probable top 5 draft pick right now? And still it would require more than just our 1st to get a player like that as I show below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
A package with Kulikov as the centerpiece would certainly get this team a top line forward.
Lets take last yr as an example, to get a top line forward like Jeff Carter, it cost Jack Johnson and a 1st round pick. Are you willing to deal Kulikov AND our 1st rounder? And that was an LA team that at the time was closer to playing well (they were 27-22-12 at the time of the Carter trade) than the Panthers are right now.

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01-30-2013, 03:17 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
The question becomes who could you get for that pick. What scoring forward is on the block that is worth a probable top 5 draft pick right now? And still it would require more than just our 1st to get a player like that as I show below.
Lets take last yr as an example, to get a top line forward like Jeff Carter, it cost Jack Johnson and a 1st round pick. Are you willing to deal Kulikov AND our 1st rounder? And that was an LA team that at the time was closer to playing well (they were 27-22-12 at the time of the Carter trade) than the Panthers are right now.
Cool, would you trade Kulikov and a 1st rounder for someone like Bobby Ryan? It would be a trade Im sure you would seriously consider. Trading is the only way this team is going to get a legit scorer, outside of us landing a top 3-5 pick. They arent going to go out and sign a Perry or Getzlaf in the offseason, so trading for top line talent really is the only way to go. We cant let last seasons momentum go down the drain, and we cant wait for our top prospects to possibly be the answer.

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01-30-2013, 03:22 PM
  #122
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Cool, would you trade Kulikov and a 1st rounder for someone like Bobby Ryan? It would be a trade Im sure you would seriously consider. Trading is the only way this team is going to get a legit scorer, outside of us landing a top 3-5 pick. They arent going to go out and sign a Perry or Getzlaf in the offseason, so trading for top line talent really is the only way to go. We cant let last seasons momentum go down the drain, and we cant wait for our top prospects to possibly be the answer.
I would not trade the first round pick under any circumstances. The Leafs and Brian Burke have taught everyone why.

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01-30-2013, 03:27 PM
  #123
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The question becomes who could you get for that pick. What scoring forward is on the block that is worth a probable top 5 draft pick right now? And still it would require more than just our 1st to get a player like that as I show below.
Lets take last yr as an example, to get a top line forward like Jeff Carter, it cost Jack Johnson and a 1st round pick. Are you willing to deal Kulikov AND our 1st rounder? And that was an LA team that at the time was closer to playing well (they were 27-22-12 at the time of the Carter trade) than the Panthers are right now.
It all depends on what pick we end up with, imo. If we end up with a pick outside the top-5, sure why not?

You'd also have to think that we could get a better forward since our pick is going to be better than the Kings pick/Kulikov>Jack Johnson.

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01-30-2013, 03:30 PM
  #124
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I would not trade the first round pick under any circumstances. The Leafs and Brian Burke have taught everyone why.
If Burke knew he was going to have the 2nd pick, he probably doesn't trade the pick. But he took a chance and, for what it's worth, he got a guy who would be the best forward on our team right now in Phil Kessel.

The Panthers also have a better core than the Leafs had at the time they made that deal.

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01-30-2013, 03:30 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
Cool, would you trade Kulikov and a 1st rounder for someone like Bobby Ryan? It would be a trade Im sure you would seriously consider. Trading is the only way this team is going to get a legit scorer, outside of us landing a top 3-5 pick. They arent going to go out and sign a Perry or Getzlaf in the offseason, so trading for top line talent really is the only way to go. We cant let last seasons momentum go down the drain, and we cant wait for our top prospects to possibly be the answer.
Honestly, no I wouldnt. Not because Ryan wouldnt be a top line forward for us but because he's only signed for another 2 yrs after this. Then he's gonna want a huge raise from his current $5.6M salary which we won't be able to pay him. So my question to you, is do you feel we could win the Cup in the next 2 yrs or not? I can't honestly say we're a Cup contender in 2 yrs just adding Bobby Ryan.

The big difference between Ryan & the situation last yr with Jeff Carter is he is signed for the next 10 yrs. If you said Bobby Ryan was signed for 7+ yrs, I would definitely take that deal in a heartbeat.

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