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Old
01-30-2013, 12:12 AM
  #26
Billy Mays Here
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Hell to the no.

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01-30-2013, 12:44 AM
  #27
GeneralSwell
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Absolutely not. Phil Kessel is comically undervalued on this site.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:15 AM
  #28
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Jesus I would take just Coyle + Hackett for Kessel straight up at this point.

The guy is absolutely useless to Toronto - he's Jason Blake reincarnate.

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01-30-2013, 01:39 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
2 years, not 1.5. We're a little over 5% done the season. You get him now, you have what would be about 70 games in a normal season.

He's a top 10 scorer who hasn't even hit his prime yet, and has been a consistent lethal gamebreaking threat every minute he's on the ice. You need to fulfill two criteria for this trade to make any sense from a Leaf perspective.

1. A future number one center. Doesn't have to be elite, but projects confidently to be at least a 70 point player. He would somewhat replace Kessel's offense, but would fill an actual organizational need.
2. A future top pairing defenseman to replace Dion. Doesn't have to be all-star.

Why two pieces? Because there's a very real possibility that at least one of them reaches potential, but the other doesn't. You could either get two meh players out of it, a meh and a great, or two greats. 25:50:25. Toronto takes all the risk, so you have to mitigate it somehow. Otherwise, it's not worth it to move Kessel. I'm confident that several teams would consider it. Two question marks for a sure thing.
Kessel is in his prime for Forwards the 6th NHL season is the beginning of there primes, go look at alot of the top forwards they may not have had there career year in the first 6 but they produced at a level that is there regular output during there best years in the NHL.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:50 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
2 years, not 1.5. We're a little over 5% done the season. You get him now, you have what would be about 70 games in a normal season.

He's a top 10 scorer who hasn't even hit his prime yet, and has been a consistent lethal gamebreaking threat every minute he's on the ice. You need to fulfill two criteria for this trade to make any sense from a Leaf perspective.

1. A future number one center. Doesn't have to be elite, but projects confidently to be at least a 70 point player. He would somewhat replace Kessel's offense, but would fill an actual organizational need.
2. A future top pairing defenseman to replace Dion. Doesn't have to be all-star.

Why two pieces? Because there's a very real possibility that at least one of them reaches potential, but the other doesn't. You could either get two meh players out of it, a meh and a great, or two greats. 25:50:25. Toronto takes all the risk, so you have to mitigate it somehow. Otherwise, it's not worth it to move Kessel. I'm confident that several teams would consider it. Two question marks for a sure thing.
While I disagree with a couple of your points, I understand what you're saying. The original proposal I was responding to before it was edited was Kessel for Coyle, Hackett, Setoguchi, 2013 1st, 2013 2nd, 2013 3rd.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:55 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralSwell View Post
Absolutely not. Phil Kessel is comically undervalued on this site.
Not really when you consider that if he isn't scoring he isn't contributing. Brilliant sniper, but I have zero desire to have him return to Minnesota. That and we really don't need wingers.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:05 AM
  #32
IWD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -DeMo- View Post
Kessel is in his prime for Forwards the 6th NHL season is the beginning of there primes, go look at alot of the top forwards they may not have had there career year in the first 6 but they produced at a level that is there regular output during there best years in the NHL.
We'll agree to disagree. Human males generally reach their prime physical years around 26. Top output, historically, has been 26-30. Prime is based on age, not years playing.

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01-30-2013, 08:07 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
While I disagree with a couple of your points, I understand what you're saying. The original proposal I was responding to before it was edited was Kessel for Coyle, Hackett, Setoguchi, 2013 1st, 2013 2nd, 2013 3rd.
I don't know enough about those prospects, but personally, I think six assets for one is ridiculous. That's a huge organizational blow, ignoring the names. I didn't see those picks,

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01-30-2013, 08:07 AM
  #34
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Kessel for 1st, 2nd/3rd and Dumba.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:18 AM
  #35
Spazmatic Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Jesus I would take just Coyle + Hackett for Kessel straight up at this point.

The guy is absolutely useless to Toronto - he's Jason Blake reincarnate.
Last season 82 points in 82 games.

This season 3 points in 6 games.


Totally useless. Trade his ass!

Coyle + Hackett is just your frustration talking Dave



If the Leafs were to trade Kessel (non-sensical at this point but lets say hypothetically) they would need a much more enticing piece.

Also, maybe a bit of a rant here but what's up with this "only 1.5 years of Kessel" stuff? He's not a pending UFA...not a rental....he's a 25 year old high end scorer with a year and a half left on a good contract. Yes you have to re-sign him next year...don't think that's going to lower his value in many GMs eyes. Or is that just me?


Last edited by Spazmatic Dan: 01-30-2013 at 09:15 AM.
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Old
01-30-2013, 09:12 AM
  #36
doorman
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Originally Posted by Generic User View Post
Holy crap. For 1.5 years of Kessel that is waaaay too much. Basically all of our meaningful 2013 picks, two top prospects and a top 6 roster player. No effing way.
lol, it says a 4th not your whole 13 draft and the OP, had Kessel resigned in this trade proposal.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:19 AM
  #37
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Heck no.

We don't want or need Setoguchi (even if Kessel were on his way out). He's a cap dump in this deal. Take him out of there and it looks really bad. Coyle and Hackett are nice but nowhere close to enough

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:23 AM
  #38
rafterman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorman View Post
lol, it says a 4th not your whole 13 draft and the OP, had Kessel resigned in this trade proposal.
If you didn't notice a post above, the OP edited his original proposal that did include multiple 2013 picks...

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:29 AM
  #39
7even
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I think the Leafs need to throw in Phaneuf to even in out. We're getting a 20 goal scorer back after all!

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:32 AM
  #40
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Toronto and Nashville make much better partners anyway. Kessel can carry the boatload of that team's offensive production and the rest of the guys could play excellent 2-way hockey. There's their recipe for success.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:35 AM
  #41
HockeyGuruPitka
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For a Signed Kessel? Gonna need to pay more then that.

For an unsigned Kessel id want

your 2013 1st plus 1 of Granlund / Dumba or 2 of Coyle, Hacket, Brodin , Clutterbuck, Cuma

Probably not going to happen.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:39 AM
  #42
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesota View Post
Don't see why either team does this...

Also, Toronto could probably get a much better deal for a re-signed Kessel.
Toronto won't trade a resigned Kessel.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:40 AM
  #43
this providence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
For a Signed Kessel? Gonna need to pay more then that.

For an unsigned Kessel id want

your 2013 1st plus 1 of Granlund / Dumba or 2 of Coyle, Hacket, Brodin , Clutterbuck, Cuma

Probably not going to happen.
Heh.

2013 1st
Cuma
Hackett

Outside of that whole pesky cap space thing, DONE.

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:06 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Minnesota has no need for Kessel. Toronto would likely ask for Granlund in any deal for Kessel. We already have Parise who can put up Kessel numbers and play defense too. And why would we trade our first 3 picks in a deep draft? Reminds me too much of the 1st Kessel trade.

Clutterbuck for Liles is a more likely Leafs-Wild deal. Wild need defensemen, not another winger.

New proposal is highway robbery. Looks like a Sather trade. Toronto says yes when hell freezes over.
Done.

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:11 AM
  #45
leugangen
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Toronto and Nashville make much better partners anyway. Kessel can carry the boatload of that team's offensive production and the rest of the guys could play excellent 2-way hockey. There's their recipe for success.
Yep.

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:39 AM
  #46
IWD
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Originally Posted by leugangen View Post
Done.
I like Liles, but he seems pretty redundant in the Leaf system. He buys us time until we really see what we have with Rielly and the B prospects, but otherwise I think that by the time we're ready to compete, he'll be in his mid-30's. Clutterbuck brings some nice grit to the team. As long as he's not a defensive wreck, he'd be a great 3rd line guy. A little small, so I can't imagine his career lasting very long with the way he plays, but he could be a good fit. I've heard a lot of Wild fans be willing to move him, so I'm curious why.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:53 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drur93 View Post
Clutterbuck brings some nice grit to the team. As long as he's not a defensive wreck, he'd be a great 3rd line guy. A little small, so I can't imagine his career lasting very long with the way he plays, but he could be a good fit. I've heard a lot of Wild fans be willing to move him, so I'm curious why.
Pretty much every hockey fan knows of Clutterbuck's reputation of a hitting machine. Cal also is a good all around hockey player. Defensively sound, great wheels and a pretty decent shot too. So even when he'll inevitably have to change his playing style as his body does break down, still a very good hockey player.
More and more Wild fans seem to willing to trade Clutterbuck with Charlie Coyle and Jason Zucker knocking on the NHL door. As far as Clutterbuck for Liles? Not sure what the mindset was there. I can only think he forgot the I personally think we need a big nasty shutdown D, not another PMD which we already have in spades.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:59 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by bbgarnett View Post
Minnesota

Setogouchi

Coyle

Matt Hackett

2013 4th

Toronto

Phil Kessel (resignied)
I fail to see why Toronto would even entertain the notion of considering this

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:01 PM
  #49
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If you want Kessel it will have to be for a package that gives us no sensible option but to say yes.

Like Granlund + Coyle

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:01 PM
  #50
uncleben85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Jesus I would take just Coyle + Hackett for Kessel straight up at this point.

The guy is absolutely useless to Toronto - he's Jason Blake reincarnate.
That's sarcasm right? Please tell me that's sarcasm....

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