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01-30-2013, 08:26 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by Fidel Astro View Post
I can understand that second part. Yes, the CoG has done all kinds of crazy things to keep the team there, and it would be unfortunate (for them) if their efforts were in vain, but I can't agree with your first statement.

What have the fans done to 'deserve' anything? Look, I realize dumping on other fanbases isn't cool here, and that's not what I'm trying to do right now, but I don't get what they've done to deserve a team. They certainly haven't showed up to games or spent a lot of money on the team. They haven't done any large public shows of support. They really haven't done anything. So why are they deserving?

I am well aware that a relocation would suck for the few fans who do put in the effort, but I really don't think the fans, in general, have made enough of an impact throughout this process to make anyone have a lot of sympathy for them.
I think the difference you need to make is the following.

Coyotes FANS have done what they could. The fans went to games, they bought jerseys, hats, hotdogs, beers, name it.

The problem which was always there and which will (in my opinion) sadly always remain is that there is not ENOUGH FANS. Those that are here, they've done their part of the deal. But sometimes, no matter how hard you try and much individual effort you put in, if there is not enough people to help you, it will never change.

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01-30-2013, 08:28 AM
  #627
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I do.
So...which one did you pick...

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01-30-2013, 08:32 AM
  #628
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I can understand that second part. Yes, the CoG has done all kinds of crazy things to keep the team there, and it would be unfortunate (for them) if their efforts were in vain, but I can't agree with your first statement.

What have the fans done to 'deserve' anything? Look, I realize dumping on other fanbases isn't cool here, and that's not what I'm trying to do right now, but I don't get what they've done to deserve a team. They certainly haven't showed up to games or spent a lot of money on the team. They haven't done any large public shows of support. They really haven't done anything. So why are they deserving?

I am well aware that a relocation would suck for the few fans who do put in the effort, but I really don't think the fans, in general, have made enough of an impact throughout this process to make anyone have a lot of sympathy for them.
I was referring to the "loyal fans" - the ones line TL and others that might actually read this Board. I sincerely hope that they are able to keep their Coyotes. It would be hard for me to approach this otherwise, being an avid fan myself.

Whether there are enough fans to be developed in that market is really an issue for the new owner. If there aren't enough even with the AMF, then the new ownership group will be forced to keep a very trim budget, likely compromising the quality of the team over the long term. More importantly, if they are not successful in expanding the fan base and raising the appetite enough to increase ticket prices substantially, then it will be the new owners that will suffer financially. I expect that they know that.

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01-30-2013, 08:33 AM
  #629
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So...which one did you pick...
I pick hours just under 40

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01-30-2013, 08:34 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
I think the difference you need to make is the following.

Coyotes FANS have done what they could. The fans went to games, they bought jerseys, hats, hotdogs, beers, name it.

The problem which was always there and which will (in my opinion) sadly always remain is that there is not ENOUGH FANS. Those that are here, they've done their part of the deal. But sometimes, no matter how hard you try and much individual effort you put in, if there is not enough people to help you, it will never change.
No questioning the loyalty of the fans the Coyotes do have, but yes you are correct, there just aren't enough of them.

And to think... the CoG has agreed to spend $320,000,000 over the next 20 years so that 10,000 people have something to do twice a week, for 6-7 months of the year. Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy all 10,000 of them big screen TVs and subscriptions to NHL Center Ice so they could watch all the hockey they want, every night?

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01-30-2013, 08:42 AM
  #631
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Whatever JIG came up with, it sure doesn't seem to be appealing to the league. But, they're out of time, which might motivation for the league to accept this last best offer, even if it's a gum and duct tape plan.

Unless, maybe, the new Glendale council will enjoy the soft glow and smooth tones of Gary B as much as the old council did...

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01-30-2013, 08:45 AM
  #632
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It was a 50/50 call at the time. ASG didn't want Atlanta, and the Coyotes could move. He guessed right, and was deified for it.
Many of us that were reading the tea leaves at the time surmised that Atlanta might be a more likely candidate than the Coyotes - "the Coyotes if necessary, but not necessarily the Coyotes".

At the time, there was a very strong current within Winnipeg in the business and social networks that affirmed that Winnipeg would be receiving an NHL franchise. I noted it at the time on the BOH. These were businessmen and well-connected individuals who were talking about it as a fait-accompli.

At the time I also recall noting at the time that reading the language and demeanor of Bettman and Daly vis-a-vis Atlanta gave me the impression that they were preparing to have the franchise relocated. They made public statements suggesting that the franchise couldn't stay without fan support, and even suggested that the arena location was a chronic liability in Atlanta.

So, if you were at all plugged in, it wasn't rocket science to suggest that Winnipeg was likely to get an NHL team, or that Atlanta was a likely option for relocation. Even a dolt like me guessed it might well transpire that way.

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01-30-2013, 08:49 AM
  #633
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Not seeing any details there yet. Just seems to be a repost of every rumor/other report from here over the last 48 hours.
I hate waking up to good news that ain't news.

I do believe that GB would come out here to announce it ain't getting done. Say what you will but hiding from negativity ain't his character.
That would be stupid to fly out 29 hours before the deadline to announce no deal. If Jamison needed more time he would use it. No way would he just scrap the last 29 hours and w the commish throw in the towel. Not even your precious GWI can save you now....so stop "Donating" lol.

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01-30-2013, 08:53 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by wwwhowlinhockeycom View Post
That would be stupid to fly out 29 hours before the deadline to announce no deal. If Jamison needed more time he would use it. No way would he just scrap the last 29 hours and w the commish throw in the towel. Not even your precious GWI can save you now....so stop "Donating" lol.
http://howlinhockey.com/2013/01/30/g...dnesday-night/

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This is what we do know: Greg Jamison will make an announcement to reveal the end of this Coyotes ownership saga. If Gary Bettman is indeed on his way to the valley tomorrow around noon then it is unlikely it would be to drop a bomb on Jobing.com and it’s fans. Rock and Manuch reported based on their sources the Coyotes will stay in Glendale and the deal will close on time. No a guy on twitter with 5 followers is not their source. Mike Sunnucks wrote he had several sources which all but one had them closing on Wednesday night while the other stated early Thursday. My thoughts are they will do it either before or during the Oilers game tonight at 7pm.
I am embarrassed to be associated with you in any way, however remote. You offered up exactly nothing. Just some guy who runs a poorly written blog. Roc and Manuch reported no such thing. Sunnucks has zero sources with the GJ group.

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01-30-2013, 09:01 AM
  #635
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Blog? LOL how are we remotely associated? So Sunnucks is a liar?
http://fansided.com/join-fansided/

Are you implying that you somehow have credibility? Are you trying to bring SI into this? Because it's pretty clear that you are making **** up. If this was anywhere near final, they would have notified the media yesterday. Sunnucks has been caught red handed before, so he is not someone you want to hide behind.

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01-30-2013, 09:02 AM
  #636
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Blog? LOL how are we remotely associated? So Sunnucks is a liar?
A Liar... perhaps not - a regularly misinformed boob with poor sources that fills in his story gaps with hearsay and rampant speculation... Absolutely

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01-30-2013, 09:05 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by wwwhowlinhockeycom View Post
Blog? LOL how are we remotely associated? So Sunnucks is a liar?
Sunnucks might not be a liar, but some of his "sources" might well be.

Remember when IEH told the COG and everyone else that they had the financial wherewithal to purchase the Coyotes, wasting a summer of the COG's time?

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01-30-2013, 09:05 AM
  #638
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http://fansided.com/join-fansided/

Are you implying that you somehow have credibility? Are you trying to bring SI into this? Because it's pretty clear that you are making **** up. If this was anywhere near final, they would have notified the media yesterday. Sunnucks has been caught red handed before, so he is not someone you want to hide behind.
Well to be honest re: Sunnucks...we made the comment that if he cant be trusted one way...why would we trust him the other. He has been a source of misinformation before. Unless he is outright lying and putting his name to that, he claims to have at least 3 sources. 1 which claims Thursday is the day. That makes no sense unless GJ is truly stuck on some details like Sharks minority interests.

Like I said I never claimed to have shadowy sources. I am in contact however with certain people via twitter and facebook as well as personally who are more than optimistic. To actually give minute details would be very irresponsible of these people. Having said that, one of them misled me to believe a game announcement was coming Sat. at the Kings game. So grain of salt meet me.

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01-30-2013, 09:23 AM
  #639
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My prediction is .... I will make no predictions on the outcome of this saga.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:24 AM
  #640
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I would also like to add a historical elements :

- Gary never ever moves to announce bad news. He might fly to the future destination of the Coyotes if they are to move, but he won't set foot in Phoenix if that is the case.
- If news comes today or tomorrow, it is good for the Coyotes.
- If it comes Friday, it's bad news for the Coyotes.

Other than that, we all can stop pulling hats filled with rabbits from our ***** right now.

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01-30-2013, 09:26 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
- Gary never ever moves to announce bad news. He might fly to the future destination of the Coyotes if they are to move, but he won't set foot in Phoenix if that is the case.
I think there is a scenario here where Bettman sticks his neck out in front of the council to ask for an extension. That's only if GJ is legit and not a smoke screen designed to distract from what is possibly a lame duck season. I don't expect the council to grant it, because they are a bunch of amateurs. That will be the official end.

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01-30-2013, 09:27 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by powerstuck View Post
I would also like to add a historical elements :

- Gary never ever moves to announce bad news. He might fly to the future destination of the Coyotes if they are to move, but he won't set foot in Phoenix if that is the case.
- If news comes today or tomorrow, it is good for the Coyotes.
- If it comes Friday, it's bad news for the Coyotes.

Other than that, we all can stop pulling hats filled with rabbits from our ***** right now.
They won't let it be bad news, though. They'll just say they are continuing to work with Glendale on a new deadline and remain hopeful that it will all work out in weeks, not months.

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01-30-2013, 09:30 AM
  #643
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I think there is a scenario here where Bettman sticks his neck out in front of the council to ask for an extension. That's only if GJ is legit and not a smoke screen designed to distract from what is possibly a lame duck season. I don't expect the council to grant it, because they are a bunch of amateurs. That will be the official end.
They won't agree to a new deadline for an old deal, but they'll be happy to negotiate a new deadline for a new deal. By that they'll mean much less expensive deal. You will know what that means, and I will know what that means but the majority of the public, following this ordeal much less closely will not understand the ramifications, will take these guys at face value, and will expect they're trying to work out something reasonable. It may be an official end for you, but not for most.

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01-30-2013, 09:31 AM
  #644
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I think there is a scenario here where Bettman sticks his neck out in front of the council to ask for an extension. That's only if GJ is legit and not a smoke screen designed to distract from what is possibly a lame duck season. I don't expect the council to grant it, because they are a bunch of amateurs. That will be the official end.
I think that is one plausible scenario. If Jamison is still short, I wouldn't be surprised if Jamison expresses his interest in continuing to pursue this, and Bettman lending him support, provided that the COG extends the deadline.

If there is an announcement from Jamison today or tomorrow, I would rank this as the second most probable outcome (first being an announcement of the successful purchase of the Coyotes).

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01-30-2013, 09:36 AM
  #645
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Well he did stop posting here, his last post was in June. Is this the NHL's official message board and reason for reporting needed?
... no, this isnt the NHL's "official message board". If it was, with Brendan Shanahan in charge of discipline, Gary Bettman & Bill Daly lookin over his shoulder, probably about 90% of us wouldve been Shanabanned immediately following our 2nd, 3rd or 6th posts. Huh? How'd you like that guy Moderating? Why, about 98% of the existing Mods & Admins would be given their walking papers.

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I think that's how it plays out if Jamison is short. It seems like Weiers might be the perfect "black hat" in this scenario. I can't see him getting all warm and fuzzy with someone like Bettman.
Ya, seems the antithesis to New York sophistication does Mayor Weiers. Harley Davidson, Pickup with Gun Rack and apparently one of Grand Canyon Taxidermy's best customers.... mind ye', Bill Daly, now, he might get along famously with Jerry. Rumour has it he grows carnivorous plants and often spends his weekends Alligator Hunting through the sewers of New York City.

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...imagine putting a state-of-the-art arena on the western edge of town away from the core population center of your city. They would have been better off staying in AWA a few more years and trying to find another site in Scottsdale.
Actually, what they should have done was to have retro-fitted & upgraded the old War Vets Memorial Arena on the Arizona State Fair Grounds where the old WHA & IHL Roadrunners played, built up the brand and a following, and then & only then gone shopping for a new site, preferably Scottsdale. But no, Jerry Colangelo, one of Gary Bettmans friends from his NBA days had recently opened the AWA, was spent to some degree financially, Burke & Gluckstern after being turfed out of Minnesota landing in Phoenix. One sided lease. No revenues from concessions, parking, advertising & sponsorship platforms etc. Lousy venue, 1000's of obstructed seats. The only good thing about it was location, and you know what? If your products good, location doesnt really matter if you know what your doing & know how to market/promote. For Steve Ellman, the team was strictly the hook in a massive real estate play. The emotional quotient. Obviously Glendale bought in to his vision hook, line & sinker.

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I believe Killion mentioned this awhile back (not sure if he was the first one) but standard NHL policy when purchasing a team is that said owner is required to have 50% over and above...
Oh goodness, no, plenty of others discussed that at length long before I was even a member here. Though thats the standard policy, lets just say the NHL is flexible with its own policys (and the truth), its By-Laws & even its own Constitution. On the fly pretty much. For an insider like Jamison, accommodations will be made Im sure.... then theres this;

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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Whatever JIG came up with, it sure doesn't seem to be appealing to the league. But, they're out of time, which might motivation for the league to accept this last best offer, even if it's a gum and duct tape plan....
Bolded... ya, and if by some miracle GJ does manage to pull this off within the next 48hrs, whatever's "announced" in terms of sale price etc, well, God only knows what the truth might be, how finally motivated a vendor the NHL might or might not be, what accommodations have been made. I really do hope he manages to close, dying to find out who his investors might be, seeing how he, the NHL & the COG reacts & responds when the injonction legale is dropped by the GWI; their suit sponsored by the Grande Loge' du (Illuminati, Freemasons) Quebec .


Last edited by Killion: 01-30-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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01-30-2013, 09:36 AM
  #646
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I think there is a scenario here where Bettman sticks his neck out in front of the council to ask for an extension. That's only if GJ is legit and not a smoke screen designed to distract from what is possibly a lame duck season. I don't expect the council to grant it, because they are a bunch of amateurs. That will be the official end.
Wont happen. The incoming council are like a pack of dogs who wanted the vote to wait so they could kill it. They dont care about the Coyotes.

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01-30-2013, 09:39 AM
  #647
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If Jamison is still short, I wouldn't be surprised if Jamison expresses his interest in continuing to pursue this, and Bettman lending him support, provided that the COG extends the deadline.
The NHL dug Greg Jamison up and asked him to do this. They know what he is about, his resources and his investors. They have been constantly appraised of the situation for almost a year now. There is absolutely zero logical reason or excuse for someone (with the means) to not close on this deal. I'm guessing that they never expected to get $300 million out of the council, and have quite possibly been scrambling to actually attempt this deal. But that still doesn't provide an excuse to not close. GJ, after all is said and done, is an ally of the league. It is not beyond them to stage a charade in order to prevent further losses. The parties involved stand to lose very little. An ideological last stand by the council to kill the deal on the table provides an oh so convenient out for the league. "We were close, but the city decided its own fate."

I take solace in the deadline. He doesn't close, it's over. Unless, out of nowhere, the council grants an extension of the existing deal. Even then, it's no sure sign that GJ is a serious buyer or that the league has any intention of closing this deal. Lebrun is right that it won't spell the immediate end. We will get endless lipservice about 'ongoing negotiations' but we know what that means. We are at the endgame. Thank god.

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Wont happen. The incoming council are like a pack of dogs who wanted the vote to wait so they could kill it. They dont care about the Coyotes.
I thought this was signed, sealed and delivered on your end? You don't get to play both sides of the fence.

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01-30-2013, 09:45 AM
  #648
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I dont see a scenario where the deadline comes and no deal and the Coyotes remain. It will break my heart but at this point I just want resolution. The constant unknown black clouds, not good for fans or the boys. They strap on their lids every night w uncertainty. Then right before the playoffs some idiot reports they are going to relocate. Enough of the BS. GJ has had weeks. If he is snagged by paperwork @ the Sharks organization it should be resolved by now.

BTW I'm 40 at home with my infant daughter. I did drop my 14 yr old off at 9th grade though. Hilarious. I am a Coyotes fan. Season ticket holder. Editor for my website. Im fully invested and not taking ANYTHING away from Canada.....So stop trying to take something from US!

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01-30-2013, 09:46 AM
  #649
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It is not beyond them to stage a charade in order to prevent further losses. The parties involved stand to lose very little. An ideological last stand by the council to kill the deal on the table provides an oh so convenient out for the league. "We were close, but the city decided its own fate."
I agree with the above. I think that if Jamison and Bettman ask for more time, it will be either to push the onus back onto the COG to kill the deal, or perhaps to continue a facade for a while longer to avoid higher operation losses on the Coyotes this year. If Jamison hasn't been able to secure investors and then crack a deal with Bettman under this deadline, then he won't be able to do it in the next few months. If the deal isn't finalized this week, I doubt that it will ever be.

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01-30-2013, 09:50 AM
  #650
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I thought this was signed, sealed and delivered on your end? You don't get to play both sides of the fence.
You're speculating on impossibilities. Just trying to put out your misguided fires. Scenarios where Bettman drop bad news on Phx when we already dont like him makes zero sense. Or that the council may work a new deal. Not happening. They dont want to pay a dime to Jamison as the incoming council is more of a minority based council that I had to sit and listen to eat over the phone while she talked of kids will get into gangs if they close the library a few days a week. The incoming mayor also seemed dead set against the Coyotes.

It's quite simple....Jamison closes in the next 39 hours or the Coyotes saga WILL end. By them leaving Glendale.

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