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Old
01-30-2013, 09:40 AM
  #476
MiSe
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I think Oates quote was relevant from a defensive standpoint and effort. I think they played alot better defensively that game than any other game up to that point, so perhaps thats where he is coming from.

Personally, I think putting Ovi with Beagle and Crabb is an effort thing. He wants to get Ovi out there with some hard workers, get him engaged into the game, make sure he comes out with energy and get him working hard (not saying it will work). Once Oates is assured Ovi is engaged and working, he'll then put him on a line with Backstrom.

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01-30-2013, 09:42 AM
  #477
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8 needs some time next to JFS in the press box. He doesn't give a F so embarrass him. He'll either be motivated or ***** his way off the team. I'm fine with either because nothing is worse than a useless, $10M, "captain". I don't want Fors and Kuz around that attitude either.

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01-30-2013, 10:13 AM
  #478
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I see we're in full meltdown mode here.

I though they played well last night. The bounces just didn't go our way. Happens.

But Ovi needs to play better. I dunno what the hell is up with the guy, he seems so disinterested. Perhaps benching him for one game isn't the worst idea.

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01-30-2013, 10:18 AM
  #479
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The discussion now is what to do with Ovi.

What I see - he still looks lost to me at LW. Not that RW was much better, but LW is played out. He is not even trying his old move. Maybe he needs to cherry pick to get a 1 on 1. He appears to be looking to pass, a lot, more than ever and cant be with grinders if that does not change. He is not getting enough touches on the PP. Oates is getting him out with Nick and Brouwer when he can but it appears to be confusing his game even more.

I would put him back with Nick. Since Nick came to life last night, that pair has a much better chance of generating a scoring chance. I would get him a better finisher or crasher on the opposite side. Ward.

I would put Ovi in the slot on the PP. Brouwer is getting more touches on the PP and OV is not used. Put Carlson or Kund in Ovi's spot. Green up top may need to be moved around.

Ovi's lack of hitting can be attributed to the league cracking down on him. Lose 5% of your salary and see if you keep bumping into people at work. I think his hitting was a major source of fans and teams energy and enthusiasm. He still knows to crush a one timer, at least.

I hope everyone can see why I thought RW was worth a try.

Ovi Nick Ward
WW Ribs Brouwer


Last edited by RandyHolt: 01-30-2013 at 10:23 AM.
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01-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
I see we're in full meltdown mode here.

I though they played well last night. The bounces just didn't go our way. Happens.

But Ovi needs to play better. I dunno what the hell is up with the guy, he seems so disinterested. Perhaps benching him for one game isn't the worst idea.
I agree. They played well and deserved to win and got a couple bad bounces and strange goals against not to mention suspicious officiating. One of those games.

Ovechkin does look like he's slacking. He couldn't even receive a pass yesterday as every single one bounced off his stick it seemed.

Benching him will create a media maelstorm and drama all over the place. I think putting him with Beagle and Crabb is looking more and more like a good idea until he picks it up. In a way..that is equivalent of him getting benched without the scrutiny.

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01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #481
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Whats sad is that I feel as though the Beagle/Crabb line would play much better w/o Ovi there.

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01-30-2013, 11:09 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Whats sad is that I feel as though the Beagle/Crabb line would play much better w/o Ovi there.
Right now? Yeah..I hate to agree with that but I have to.

But its not all gloom and doom. Ovechkin can turn it around at any time. All it will take is a multi goal game and he'll be recharged.

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01-30-2013, 11:27 AM
  #483
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Watching the game, I didn't think the Caps played notably worse in the stretch where they lost the lead. Ottawa just took advantage of their chances and the Caps didn't.

Am I remembering wrong?
Their territorial play went way down after the O'Brien goal it seemed. Given the lack of a transition game that's problematic and Ottawa played a much more urgent downhill game thereafter. The SOG totals weren't all that one-sided after that goal (12 to 9) but they were pretty well on their heels. Aside from Ribeiro's chance they struggled to create quality chances IIRC.

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01-30-2013, 11:32 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Langway View Post
Their territorial play went way down after the O'Brien goal it seemed. Given the lack of a transition game that's problematic and Ottawa played a much more urgent downhill game thereafter. The SOG totals weren't all that one-sided after that goal (12 to 9) but they were pretty well on their heels. Aside from Ribeiro's chance they struggled to create quality chances IIRC.
I remember at some point during the 3rd Joe B made a comment about the Caps going a long time without any even strength SOG. They definitely stopped the aggressive forechecking that had been working so well in the first two periods.

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01-30-2013, 11:33 AM
  #485
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All it will take is a multi goal game and he'll be recharged.
Agreed. Even the Buffalo game, he was skating much better after his goal. He looked like his mind was in the game.

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01-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #486
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I still don't see it as a benching. I suspected Oates thinking was, until he shows he can work with his linemates on a coordinated attack, its pointless to put all our eggs in one basket. Have 3 lines that may score. And indeed our first line did score, but Ovi missed out being on the PP just before. Poor Ovi.

He was being experimented on RW, with a LW that was so bad is scratched, and few seem to disagree or care.

That was the sample size to warrant a demotion or benching?

I don't think it was enough time to grade the position change, nor Ovi, especially since he was fine over in the KHL.

I want to see Laich Nick Ovi. Ribs with Ovi is a no brainer, but think Oates worries about those lame duck faceoffs. So, i was thinking Ovi Ribs Beagle.

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01-30-2013, 11:49 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
I remember at some point during the 3rd Joe B made a comment about the Caps going a long time without any even strength SOG. They definitely stopped the aggressive forechecking that had been working so well in the first two periods.
They went just about twelve minutes in the third without one. There was a penalty in between on each side but that's pretty bad. Ottawa's push was on and they couldn't mount much of a response either from someone making a play or at least just slowing them down through the neutral zone.

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01-30-2013, 12:01 PM
  #488
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I still don't see it as a benching.
Really? It became apparent to me that is EXACTLY what it is.

BB first saw the problems at the beginning of last year. He benched him for that empty net situation and we all remember what happened there.

Hunter took over and Ovy was barely seeing the ice when we had a lead.

Oates puts him with 2 defensive minded forwards.

They are trying to hide him without benching him as BB did.

I'm a huge OV supporter but lets be real...he's not giving enough effort than he was even last year.

In the game vs NJ I don't believe he saw the ice in OT until the last shift...and as soon as he went out he turned it over and NJ ended up scoring at some point later.

IF they tried to send a message (Hunter and Oates) by leaving him in the press box or some other benching in an obvious offensive situation there would be a firestorm and lots of media distractions not to mention it would publically humiliate Ovechkin.

They don't want to do that. They are trying to discreetly send him a message and I think Oates is doing it better than Hunter really.

Its up to #8 to respond and I still believe he can and will.

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01-30-2013, 12:03 PM
  #489
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glad to see the ov talk is where it is. i had suggested last season that the caps needed to think about trading him. the answer was a resounding no. that leonsis would never do it because of the revenue 8 brings in.

see it now. ov is not going to be bringing in revenue playing like this. skating with beagle and crabb will only add to last year's benching with a lead from hunter as a constant drumbeat distraction from the media.

its pretty obvious to me that the team is competitive. as they get used to the way oates wants them to play, they improve. they lost in ottawa in a game good teams lose. one bad play followed by one bad ref call on the road followed by a bad bounce on the penalty kill. if they win in toronto, its no big deal.

btw....not to go unnoticed is that backstrom only has 2 assists both in one game. so he has been shutout in more games than has ovechkin.

i dont think ovechkin is interested anymore.

oh and contracts based on performance??? remember the lockout? the nhlpa would NEVER sign up for that.
The answer is STILL a resounding NO. The Caps only do this if they're forced to. It's not that he directly brings in revenue its that they've retooled the entire organization around this guy. It's not something that will be easy to do or easy to break up. It will be admitting a MASSIVE failure to the fanbase and Leonsis isn't going to do that easily.

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01-30-2013, 12:11 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
The answer is STILL a resounding NO. The Caps only do this if they're forced to. It's not that he directly brings in revenue its that they've retooled the entire organization around this guy. It's not something that will be easy to do or easy to break up. It will be admitting a MASSIVE failure to the fanbase and Leonsis isn't going to do that easily.
I agree. The answer is not trading him or buying him out or whatever.

The answer is getting his game turned around somehow someway.

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01-30-2013, 12:37 PM
  #491
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I still don't see it as a benching. I suspected Oates thinking was, until he shows he can work with his linemates on a coordinated attack, its pointless to put all our eggs in one basket.
I mostly agree, but to me that constitutes a 'benching.' Putting a player with grinders who have no capacity to generate offense in order to keep that player from compromising the cohesion of the players who do have that capacity seems like a pretty strong indictment of that player to me. And it's certainly warranted.

It's frustrating to imagine what could be if Ovechkin could actually work effectively within a cooperative strategy. He has the physical tools to do things he doesn't do. Someone here recently suggested that what elevated Ovechkin's game was that freelancing, reckless urgency, and that he is incapable of playing at such a high level, team player or not, without it. That could be true. The problem is he doesn't have that fire anymore, but doesn't have the right attitude either.
Quote:
I want to see Laich Nick Ovi. Ribs with Ovi is a no brainer, but think Oates worries about those lame duck faceoffs. So, i was thinking Ovi Ribs Beagle.
Has anything been mentioned specifically about Oates working with Ribeiro on faceoffs? It would be funny if he's almost considered a hopeless case.

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01-30-2013, 01:26 PM
  #492
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Ovi needs work. Wow he seems to be regressing the line changes demotion faux benching didn't help, but it didn't much hurt either. Altogether a lot of changes and linemates to start the year.

We all know he knows how to play, but I just see so much hesitation, desperation, failures to do the things he did effortlessly previously. I see little to no what I would call chemistry with anyone. He seems ignored on the PP. It's getting awkward.

My proposal of moving him to RW was met with much resistance over the years, but it was born from simply a lack of passing between him and Nick.

Nick setting up Ovi for that one timer in the first, I think Ovi came off the bench and up into the play, like a Dman. And he just crushed a one timer. That is the type of play absent for so long, that he needs. No thinking, no passing. CRUSH IT.

He appears desperate to pass the puck when he possesses it for too long now; I think he feels shooting at every chance is banging his head on the wall at this point. He is gun shy of.... shin pads?

You only have been beaten, if you do not get back up. He needs to get back up, brush off the dirt criticism, and go tee off on someone. Be it a goalie or PKer, defensemen asking to be trucked. Maybe we see a fight from him before too long.

I fear this is going to get ugly before it gets better.

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01-30-2013, 02:25 PM
  #493
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Kind of hard to be engaged if Crabb is playing so north game that he don't even pass the puck to AO. Yesterday it was obvious that AO is playing almost without the puck. It couldn't be good like that.

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01-30-2013, 02:43 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
Agreed. Even the Buffalo game, he was skating much better after his goal. He looked like his mind was in the game.
not disagreeing with you, but shouldn't his mind be in the game for 60 minutes on a regular basis?

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01-30-2013, 02:48 PM
  #495
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Really? It became apparent to me that is EXACTLY what it is.

BB first saw the problems at the beginning of last year. He benched him for that empty net situation and we all remember what happened there.

Hunter took over and Ovy was barely seeing the ice when we had a lead.

Oates puts him with 2 defensive minded forwards.

They are trying to hide him without benching him as BB did.

I'm a huge OV supporter but lets be real...he's not giving enough effort than he was even last year.

In the game vs NJ I don't believe he saw the ice in OT until the last shift...and as soon as he went out he turned it over and NJ ended up scoring at some point later.

IF they tried to send a message (Hunter and Oates) by leaving him in the press box or some other benching in an obvious offensive situation there would be a firestorm and lots of media distractions not to mention it would publically humiliate Ovechkin.

They don't want to do that. They are trying to discreetly send him a message and I think Oates is doing it better than Hunter really.

Its up to #8 to respond and I still believe he can and will.
I am probably in the minority here, but if I was GMGM, I would be exploring trade options for #8 right now while he can still fetch a decent amount. His best days are behind him, he is not magically going to turn it around, and he will never come close to earning his contract. I would rather use that $$$ on hockey players that care. Just my $.02.

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01-30-2013, 02:52 PM
  #496
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not disagreeing with you, but shouldn't his mind be in the game for 60 minutes on a regular basis?
Absolutely it should be. And its worrisome it isn't. Its clearly a motivation/confidence issue. I really have no idea what any coach could tell him to get him to play like his old self.

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01-30-2013, 02:52 PM
  #497
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I am probably in the minority here, but if I was GMGM, I would be exploring trade options for #8 right now while he can still fetch a decent amount. His best days are behind him, he is not magically going to turn it around, and he will never come close to earning his contract. I would rather use that $$$ on hockey players that care. Just my $.02.
This

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01-30-2013, 03:00 PM
  #498
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I am probably in the minority here, but if I was GMGM, I would be exploring trade options for #8 right now while he can still fetch a decent amount. His best days are behind him, he is not magically going to turn it around, and he will never come close to earning his contract. I would rather use that $$$ on hockey players that care. Just my $.02.
Meh.

I think trading him sets the franchise back more than it moves it forward, regardless of the return. If he sucks as much as people seem to portray now and wont regain form, why does anyone think the return will be worth it.

He'll work out his **** and get back to a top player in the NHL. I truly believe that he will. Wishful thinking on my part? Maybe. But the effects of trading him are so not worth it.

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01-30-2013, 03:02 PM
  #499
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IMO he needs a coach to piss him off to motivate him and/or we need a vet presence that Ovy respects. A certain Sergei Fedorov comes to mind for non-players, but ideally, we acquire an active player Ovechkin respects who could reinvigorate him.

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01-30-2013, 03:04 PM
  #500
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So...from Ward...

“I was just keeping the puck in, told [the referee] it was a follow through,” Ward said of the penalty. “He just said I didn’t attempt to hit the puck. I don’t know, he called it and the next thing I knew, I had to go to the box.”


So the ref's opinion was that Ward didn't even attempt to hit the puck?!!? W T F...

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