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Leafs WIN! - 4-3 Frattin with a thriller!

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #476
mix1home
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
That's because thus far Kadri and Frattin are the new Kessel and Lupul
I lol'ed at this comment. Good for kids to step it up and beat their match-ups.

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01-30-2013, 10:46 AM
  #477
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Originally Posted by CBinTokyo View Post
He is a pure sniper who is becoming a strong 2 way player. Under a new system he is lost in terms of scoring right now. He is shooting a tonne, but under the new system the shots aren't generating the goals he is used to.

He really is elite in my opinion, and will figure it out. Once he does, he will be far more valuable as a player than he was last year.

Kessel is learning to be a solid 2 way player.
How did Hunter's 2 way hockey work out for Semin, Ovi and Green?

I have played the game for 40 years, seen all kinds of different players and styles.

Some players just don't have the gift of 2 way play , in fact ,i'd argue that might be the rarest of all beasts, good to great 2 way players.

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01-30-2013, 10:47 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Whats with all this blatantly false "Kessel works hard every shift" and "Kessel is becoming a solid two-way player" stuff?

Last night Kessel had one shift where he fought for the puck on the boards. ONE SHIFT. And he looked like he was going to vomit afterward. It's infuriating how obvious his lack of effort is in his own zone, puck recovery, unwillingness to take a hit to move the puck. 90% of the time in his own zone he's just waiting...waiting...waiting for the puck to materialize. It's only when the puck is going down the ice that he suddenly explodes and shows what he can do.

Of course he's a great scorer, and a great passer, too. But how can you deny that when he's not making goals happen, he's not doing anything? There is not a single player on this team who doesn't work harder than him.
If you are judging based on the fact he was gassed, he played 26 minutes! If you think he only had one shift where he was hustling, watch again!

He is fast, he works..and I think he is in transition. I also think he is enough of an athlete, and an elite talent in the NHL, that he will work out how t make things happen in the new system, and be a more valuable player for it.

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01-30-2013, 10:49 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by topched View Post
Im with you here. Was at the game last night.

I thought he had a great 2 1/2 periods. Kept thinking that there was no way he didn't break the slump tonight.

People will focus on the end of the game purely because it was the most crucial... Phil was completely gassed, but Carlyle kept rolling him out there. There's no doubt he's feeling the pressure right now, but he could have easily had 2-3 goals on the season so far with some good breaks... and no one would be talking about it.

Let's start worrying about Kessel when he's invisible offensively and isn't top 10 in the league in scoring chances.
I agree, he's the least of the Teams worries.

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01-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #480
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Mats Sundin once started a season with no POINTS in 7 games.

Kessel has only went goalless for 5

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01-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #481
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
How did Hunter's 2 way hockey work out for Semin, Ovi and Green?

I have played the game for 40 years, seen all kinds of different players and styles.

Some players just don't have the gift of 2 way play , in fact ,i'd argue that might be the rarest of all beasts, good to great 2 way players.
You might be right. In that case he might have better value in trade. I would actually (sincerely) like to hear your opinion on whether or not Kessel could become a complete player that way.

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01-30-2013, 10:52 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Whats with all this blatantly false "Kessel works hard every shift" and "Kessel is becoming a solid two-way player" stuff?

Last night Kessel had one shift where he fought for the puck on the boards. ONE SHIFT. And he looked like he was going to vomit afterward. It's infuriating how obvious his lack of effort is in his own zone, puck recovery, unwillingness to take a hit to move the puck. 90% of the time in his own zone he's just waiting...waiting...waiting for the puck to materialize. It's only when the puck is going down the ice that he suddenly explodes and shows what he can do.

Of course he's a great scorer, and a great passer, too. But how can you deny that when he's not making goals happen, he's not doing anything? There is not a single player on this team who doesn't work harder than him.
To say he does nothing but score is harsh. Kessel needs to alter his game,and i hear you. A new center with Lupul out is the only option. Bozak was floatin like the caddyshack chocolate bar last night. He looked like a piece of caddyshack chocolate bar too.

Kessel needs kulemin,and Kadri with him maybe to get him goin.

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01-30-2013, 10:52 AM
  #483
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Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf are the last stand of the Burkites

The same group that desperately supported every move/word Burke said right up until he had to be removed . Are not desperately defending every word/move Dion/Phil make. These two are all you have left. You have all constantly been wrong time after time - this situation will be no different. Phil will be traded - Dion will be demoted and become toxic. NO teams will touch his contract so Toronto will be stuck with him until it expires.

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01-30-2013, 10:55 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by CBinTokyo View Post
You might be right. In that case he might have better value in trade. I would actually (sincerely) like to hear your opinion on whether or not Kessel could become a complete player that way.
Complete 2 way player?

Honestly, not a chance in hell.

Top shelf offensive player? absolutely.

This might sound weird but, sometimes it comes down to what is in the heart/soul and mind of the player, he does not have the will , courage or desire to be anything but what he has always been and what has brought him to where he is and that is flat out O.

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01-30-2013, 10:55 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Reimer is 19th. (for starters) in SV%, at .910. Not great, but is getting back to pre-concussion / whiplash stats.
I'd be quite happy if he can stay at .910 for the rest of the season. His last two starts have been gravitating down toward .900 though.

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01-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #486
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I'd be quite happy if he can stay at .910 for the rest of the season. His last two starts have been gravitating down toward .900 though.
even though that is not his fault

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01-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #487
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Originally Posted by CBinTokyo View Post
If you are judging based on the fact he was gassed, he played 26 minutes! If you think he only had one shift where he was hustling, watch again!

He is fast, he works..and I think he is in transition. I also think he is enough of an athlete, and an elite talent in the NHL, that he will work out how t make things happen in the new system, and be a more valuable player for it.
I know when he works hard, and it's not when the puck is contested in his own zone.

I didn't say he does nothing but score. He's an excellent playmaker, as well. But he doesnt get half the chances to create a goal that he would if he actually helped recover the puck himself. He probably thinks he's doing well by saving his energy for the breakout. The Grabo line created many more scoring chances than Kessel's, and it's because they worked hard. They spent most of their time in the other end, getting matched up against Buffalo's top line. They make themselves hard to play against. Kessel makes himself a total non-factor when the puck is going the other way.

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01-30-2013, 11:01 AM
  #488
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Complete 2 way player?

Honestly, not a chance in hell.

Top shelf offensive player? absolutely.
Can you elaborate as to why you think that way? Again this is solely to educate myself. I do not have the experience you have.

I see him as trying, and having some success, to adapting to a new system. I see him giving everything, and I see him having a solid knowledge of the arena in which he competes. My thinking is that he can adapt....having said that I am the first to acknowledge that my opinion is based on far less experience than someone who has played the game for 40 years, and would appreciate what makes you think otherwise.

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01-30-2013, 11:02 AM
  #489
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Staying out of this one lol. Just seems like players are going to be cut up just to win a arguement.Which in tiurn will start another arguement etc.... lol.

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01-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Mats Sundin once started a season with no POINTS in 7 games.

Kessel has only went goalless for 5
Mats was also extremely hard to play against in all three zones and carried mediocre teams to the playoffs. He was +99 in his career for the Leafs, and that was with a lot of his offensive production coming on the PP.

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01-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #491
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Happy to come out of that with the W but that was not a confidence inspiring win. Reimer looked shakey and the team repeatedly had problems breaking out of their own zone. Reminded me way too much of the last couple seasons.

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01-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
I agree, he's the least of the Teams worries.
Our star/elite offensive sniper only has 2 even strength goals in his last 24 games in this new system and you call THAT, the least of our concerns?

Boy, you have a very odd way of looking at things.

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01-30-2013, 11:04 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Staying out of this one lol. Just seems like players are going to be cut up just to win a arguement.Which in tiurn will start another arguement etc.... lol.
I actually just want to learn

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01-30-2013, 11:04 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by CBinTokyo View Post
Can you elaborate as to why you think that way? Again this is solely to educate myself. I do not have the experience you have.

I see him as trying, and having some success, to adapting to a new system. I see him giving everything, and I see him having a solid knowledge of the arena in which he competes. My thinking is that he can adapt....having said that I am the first to acknowledge that my opinion is based on far less experience than someone who has played the game for 40 years, and would appreciate what makes you think otherwise.
He shies away from contact too much to ever be a top two way player. It is apparent though that he is making more of an effort to play at both ends of the ice.

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01-30-2013, 11:05 AM
  #495
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I missed most of second, and first half of 3rd. But it was nice to get into W column. Now lets get a winning streak (3-4 games) going together

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01-30-2013, 11:05 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf are the last stand of the Burkites

The same group that desperately supported every move/word Burke said right up until he had to be removed . Are not desperately defending every word/move Dion/Phil make. These two are all you have left. You have all constantly been wrong time after time - this situation will be no different. Phil will be traded - Dion will be demoted and become toxic. NO teams will touch his contract so Toronto will be stuck with him until it expires.
You think Phaneuf did bad last game?

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01-30-2013, 11:06 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Our star/elite offensive sniper only has 2 even strength goals in his last 24 games in this new system and you call THAT, the least of our concerns?

Boy, you have a very odd way of looking at things.
You would have a point if he wasn't getting opportunities but he is. He's also creating a lot of chances on his own and if his line-mates had more finish he'd easily have a few more assists.

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01-30-2013, 11:07 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by CBinTokyo View Post
I actually just want to learn
When Kessel's line is getting hemmed in their own zone for 20+ seconds at a time, focus on Kessel. You will notice that he floats around in the middle of nowhere. He is at least 10 feet from any opposing player. He is quite literally waiting for the puck to come to him. When you start looking for it, it's incredibly obvious.

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01-30-2013, 11:07 AM
  #499
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Mats was also extremely hard to play against in all three zones and carried mediocre teams to the playoffs. He was +99 in his career for the Leafs, and that was with a lot of his offensive production coming on the PP.
So? That says Mats is a better player.

What I am saying is everyone has to chill out because even Mats Sundin, (who carried us for most of a decade) has started WORSE then Phil Kessel.

Kessel has been around the net, and has been close. Once he gets one, they will pour in and everyone will be back on the bandwagon.

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01-30-2013, 11:08 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by TobyWong View Post
You would have a point if he wasn't getting opportunities but he is. He's also creating a lot of chances on his own and if his line-mates had more finish he'd easily have a few more assists.
If Kessel had more finish this year, his teammates would easily have a few more assists as well.

Kessel has missed more prime scoring opportunities than anybody else on the team. He doesnt get credit for just getting those chances if his linemates dont.

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