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When Will Heads Roll?

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:02 AM
  #1
Mogo
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When Will Heads Roll?

When is Tallon gonna make a trade? Who's going to go? Is Dineen in danger?

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01-30-2013, 10:06 AM
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We haven't been healthy. It's excusable to a degree, imo.

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01-30-2013, 10:13 AM
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Parros and Kuba should be gone.

That just isn't going to never happen.

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01-30-2013, 10:16 AM
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I know that this is just based on rumors but I'd really like Simon Despres on the blueline, he is very talented but not getting much ice-time in Pittsburgh. Come on Tallon, make it happen
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...-traded/page/5

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01-30-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
We haven't been healthy. It's excusable to a degree, imo.
5 game losing streak. Before the season they said no team wanting to make playoffs can lose more than 4 games in a row once in the season.

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01-30-2013, 10:31 AM
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Honestly I dont see anytime this season when heads roll. Tallon knows it was not going to be a quick start when there was so many injuries, a short training camp and a few older players that won't be 100% up to even normal game speed (let alone shortened season game speed). The guy is gonna be patient and really there's no reason to gut the team to try and make a statement now.

I wouldnt mind if we made a few smaller impact deals though like maybe moving Weaver when Gudbranson returns or seeing if there was a team willing to take Kovalev for a playoff run. Otherwise, we dont have much that would be valued around the league that we could get fair value for IMO.

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01-30-2013, 10:52 AM
  #7
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I don't buy the injury bs. The team looks so lost out there.

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01-30-2013, 11:04 AM
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Forget opening night..

This has been depressing. Almost wishing back the lockout.

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01-30-2013, 11:17 AM
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Its not a horrible thing that the team is sitting in the basement. We probably needed at least one more high pick to really have a shot at a cup run. At least we wont have to stink it up through an entire season to get there. As we continue with this youth movement over the next 2-3 years we need to realize that there will be a lot of growing pains. Last year was an aberration imo.

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01-30-2013, 11:33 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by King Panther View Post
Its not a horrible thing that the team is sitting in the basement. We probably needed at least one more high pick to really have a shot at a cup run. At least we wont have to stink it up through an entire season to get there. As we continue with this youth movement over the next 2-3 years we need to realize that there will be a lot of growing pains. Last year was an aberration imo.
Plus, it's not going to be hard to get there at this rate..

Like other posters said.. This team looks lost, deflated and unprepared.

I, like other people have said already, will be in awe if they do not start by selecting a forward in the draft. Even if we're in the 2nd position and we're choosing from Jones, Drouin or Monahan.. I'd pick Drouin at this point.

That will makes the odds better. One of these kids is bound to blossom into a top-tier offensive player.

Huberdeau
Bjugstad
(MacKinnon, Drouin or Barkov)

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:52 AM
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I agree on the injury BS.
Alot of these guys showed up in terrible shape. Easy to see which were which after the 1st few games. Versteeg and Weiss definately related to conditioning.
Goc and Bergy are two guys that are very injury prone. They elected to play overseas and it didn't work out. We didn't have either for quite a few games last year as well. Early in the season if I remember correctly.
Tallon has repeatedly stated that he wants players with excellent Character!!! on this team. But those players that he brought in showed very little character by showing put at camp not game ready. To the above mentioned I would add Jovo, Kopy, Flash, Kuba, Weaver and Upshall. Plus Kovy.
Those that definately showed up ready to go were Mueller, Skille and Matthias. Note that all 3 are in contract years.
Huberdeau needs to be given a pass. He's coming off his WJC which takes a lot out of a player. If he has any type of injury it's probably just fatigue. They need to make sure that expectations do not overwhelm this player.
Shore I like what I see but remember. This guy has played 38 games in the AHL before coming up. He's doing great in the AHL and has looked great in the games up but we are looking at a guy in midseason form verses our out of shape over paid characterless top six forwards. This is the same reason we started Caruso on D before he broke his arm.

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01-30-2013, 12:08 PM
  #12
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Dineen is safe. What is he supposed to do? He has one of the least talented, and arguably the most out of shape, roster in the NHL. Almost none of our players came to camp ready to play.

Hindsight it 20/20, but I recall saying before the lockout that this team was poised to regress. We lost two players who played significant roles last year in free agency (Garrison and Samuelsson), and replaced them with lesser players, Kuba and Mueller. The expectation of many (myself included) was for Huberdeau to burst onto the scene and become our top scoring threat. Unfortunately, he's struggling after the first game as he's still physically skinny and teams are keying in on him. Injuries are an excuse, you can't deny we miss Goc, Bergenheim, and Gudbranson, but let's be honest with ourselves, will those three really help our offense that much? The key issue for us, as it has been for the last decade, is we can't score goals.

Unless the first line starts clicking like they did at the beginning of last season, or the Huberdeau-Mueller-Kovalev trio goes on a tear, we could be in for a very, very long season.

And don't blame goaltending for all of our issues. Theodore is facing over 30 shots a game, and there have been many defensive breakdowns in front of him. I counted 3 of them in last night's game alone that led to goals. The whole team needs to step up... and step up soon.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:19 PM
  #13
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We can not have a line like Huby-Mueller-Kovy. We are not defensively sound enough. This team the way it is should not try to play run and gun offense.
This team needs to put the hard hats on and out work every team we play in our own end. Keep the score close and try to capitalize on turnovers.
If we play end to end expect more of the same.

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01-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeasonTicket View Post
We can not have a line like Huby-Mueller-Kovy. We are not defensively sound enough. This team the way it is should not try to play run and gun offense.
This team needs to put the hard hats on and out work every team we play in our own end. Keep the score close and try to capitalize on turnovers.
If we play end to end expect more of the same.
Maybe put Kopecky there, when everyone is healthy(sort of)?
Hubs-Mueller-Kopecky

Because, if Bergy stays, I wan to keep him with Goc.

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01-30-2013, 12:46 PM
  #15
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Overall, I don't think you can base what's happened so far this season as a realistic scenario. The lockout has really screwed things up around the league. Other teams like the Flyers and Caps are also off to terrible starts along with us. Many players are either injured or completely out of shape by not training or playing during the lockout.

Chemistry is a bit of an issue of why everyone looks so lost and without much of a training camp and no preseason, I can see that being a factor. Dineen is probably trying the best he can and I would say is 100% safe. Although, I'm sure he's thinking in the back of his mind what the hell to do at this point.

I would say to hold off on any major trades. I wouldn't mind seeing something minor to maybe boost morals, but we don't want to trade some of our major prospects just because this season has the possibility of being a losing one. Speaking of that, we still have 42 more games to play. We're only 4 points out of a playoff spot at this point. Once healthy, I don't see why they don't have the opportunity to turn it around even if it is a very short season.

If we end up finishing low and drafting high, I'd rather focus on how we look next season because this one is full of uncertainties everywhere around the league.

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01-30-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ShootIt View Post
Maybe put Kopecky there, when everyone is healthy(sort of)?
Hubs-Mueller-Kopecky

Because, if Bergy stays, I wan to keep him with Goc.
Kopecky is awful in a top 6 role. He needs to be in the bottom 6 or else he looks extremely out of place

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01-30-2013, 01:25 PM
  #17
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This team lacks offense. A TON of it. Even last year we struggled to score 3 goals a game, does no one remember this?

This team is a joke if they think they can solve offensive woes that have lasted here for over a decade through just the draft. We need to make trades and acquire players that are proven NHL scorers.

Right now, you bring a kid in and he will learn NOTHING because there is no one on this team that can score over 60 points in a season. There's no one to learn from in terms of offensive game.

For so long I've been starved for offence on this team. Every single year I beg and I plead, please get us some goal scorers. Get us a TRUE SNIPER. But the every year it's the same old crap. We struggle to score because we ice a roster of 90% grinders.

Drafting Mackinnon does almost nothing for this team because he won't be an impact player with us if he comes to the NHL and has to play with the ELITE TALENT of Shawn Matthias and Jack Skille.

EDIT-And for the inevitable folks who reply and say "and how do you expect to make those trades". Well I expect to make them with our prospects/roster players. We have built this mass of good prospects. What good teams do is trade some of those prospects. They're chips that can be used to acquire proven NHL talent. Look at what the Blue Jays did in baseball this off-season. Built up a ton of prospects and traded a few for proven talent. I know we won't emulate the Jays it's just an example.

We need to trade some prospects, that's the bottom line. If we continuously wait for guys to develop, we will never be a great team.

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01-30-2013, 01:33 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
This team lacks offense. A TON of it. Even last year we struggled to score 3 goals a game, does no one remember this?

This team is a joke if they think they can solve offensive woes that have lasted here for over a decade through just the draft. We need to make trades and acquire players that are proven NHL scorers.

Right now, you bring a kid in and he will learn NOTHING because there is no one on this team that can score over 60 points in a season. There's no one to learn from in terms of offensive game.

For so long I've been starved for offence on this team. Every single year I beg and I plead, please get us some goal scorers. Get us a TRUE SNIPER. But the every year it's the same old crap. We struggle to score because we ice a roster of 90% grinders.

Drafting Mackinnon does almost nothing for this team because he won't be an impact player with us if he comes to the NHL and has to play with the ELITE TALENT of Shawn Matthias and Jack Skille.

EDIT-And for the inevitable folks who reply and say "and how do you expect to make those trades". Well I expect to make them with our prospects/roster players. We have built this mass of good prospects. What good teams do is trade some of those prospects. They're chips that can be used to acquire proven NHL talent. Look at what the Blue Jays did in baseball this off-season. Built up a ton of prospects and traded a few for proven talent. I know we won't emulate the Jays it's just an example.

We need to trade some prospects, that's the bottom line. If we continuously wait for guys to develop, we will never be a great team.
I agree. We have to bring real proven player thrue trades/signing them or else we'll just keep running our prospects into the ground. No wonder team's like Philly and Detroit produce good prospects year after year. Because they don't rush them and they have real players for them to play alongside while here in Florida anyone with top 6 talent is paired with guys that would play 3rd line duties on most teams.-

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01-30-2013, 01:53 PM
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Injuries are why we are losing 1-4 instead of 1-2.

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01-30-2013, 01:59 PM
  #20
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Losing is one thing, I can deal with that. It's how badly we're losing and worse, the sheer lack of effort by some important players. You cannot have guys like Kovalev, Kuba, Versteeg, Kulikov, etc. not putting in the effort they need to put in and expect to win. Matthias, Skille, and Shore are not going to win the game alone.

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01-30-2013, 02:04 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Losing is one thing, I can deal with that. It's how badly we're losing and worse, the sheer lack of effort by some important players. You cannot have guys like Kovalev, Kuba, Versteeg, Kulikov, etc. not putting in the effort they need to put in and expect to win. Matthias, Skille, and Shore are not going to win the game alone.
Is it a bit harsh to put Versteeg on that list? Considering he has only played one game after being injured.

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01-30-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panthers Rock View Post
Losing is one thing, I can deal with that. It's how badly we're losing and worse, the sheer lack of effort by some important players. You cannot have guys like Kovalev, Kuba, Versteeg, Kulikov, etc. not putting in the effort they need to put in and expect to win. Matthias, Skille, and Shore are not going to win the game alone.
Not only are they not going to win the game, they won't even score a goal.

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01-30-2013, 02:13 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
This team lacks offense. A TON of it. Even last year we struggled to score 3 goals a game, does no one remember this?

This team is a joke if they think they can solve offensive woes that have lasted here for over a decade through just the draft. We need to make trades and acquire players that are proven NHL scorers.

Right now, you bring a kid in and he will learn NOTHING because there is no one on this team that can score over 60 points in a season. There's no one to learn from in terms of offensive game.

For so long I've been starved for offence on this team. Every single year I beg and I plead, please get us some goal scorers. Get us a TRUE SNIPER. But the every year it's the same old crap. We struggle to score because we ice a roster of 90% grinders.

Drafting Mackinnon does almost nothing for this team because he won't be an impact player with us if he comes to the NHL and has to play with the ELITE TALENT of Shawn Matthias and Jack Skille.

EDIT-And for the inevitable folks who reply and say "and how do you expect to make those trades". Well I expect to make them with our prospects/roster players. We have built this mass of good prospects. What good teams do is trade some of those prospects. They're chips that can be used to acquire proven NHL talent. Look at what the Blue Jays did in baseball this off-season. Built up a ton of prospects and traded a few for proven talent. I know we won't emulate the Jays it's just an example.

We need to trade some prospects, that's the bottom line. If we continuously wait for guys to develop, we will never be a great team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogo View Post
I agree. We have to bring real proven player thrue trades/signing them or else we'll just keep running our prospects into the ground. No wonder team's like Philly and Detroit produce good prospects year after year. Because they don't rush them and they have real players for them to play alongside while here in Florida anyone with top 6 talent is paired with guys that would play 3rd line duties on most teams.-
Tell me...who did players like Sydney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, and Alex Ovechkin have for mentors when they were developing? Were there top end players like what you're suggesting we need? As I recall those teams were bottom feeders at the time with no significant big name player. I think the types of players that Tallon has gone out and signed are good quality players (minus these past couple of games), they just don't have the skills to score on a consistent basis like Huberdeau. As long as those top end prospects are surrounded by players with good character, and good leadership, I don't see how said prospects/potential prospects can be run into the ground.

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01-30-2013, 02:13 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
This team lacks offense. A TON of it. Even last year we struggled to score 3 goals a game, does no one remember this?

This team is a joke if they think they can solve offensive woes that have lasted here for over a decade through just the draft. We need to make trades and acquire players that are proven NHL scorers.

Right now, you bring a kid in and he will learn NOTHING because there is no one on this team that can score over 60 points in a season. There's no one to learn from in terms of offensive game.

For so long I've been starved for offence on this team. Every single year I beg and I plead, please get us some goal scorers. Get us a TRUE SNIPER. But the every year it's the same old crap. We struggle to score because we ice a roster of 90% grinders.

Drafting Mackinnon does almost nothing for this team because he won't be an impact player with us if he comes to the NHL and has to play with the ELITE TALENT of Shawn Matthias and Jack Skille.

EDIT-And for the inevitable folks who reply and say "and how do you expect to make those trades". Well I expect to make them with our prospects/roster players. We have built this mass of good prospects. What good teams do is trade some of those prospects. They're chips that can be used to acquire proven NHL talent. Look at what the Blue Jays did in baseball this off-season. Built up a ton of prospects and traded a few for proven talent. I know we won't emulate the Jays it's just an example.

We need to trade some prospects, that's the bottom line. If we continuously wait for guys to develop, we will never be a great team.
I love how people forget Tallon has brought in proven scorers though both via trade and signing. He traded for Kris Versteeg (2 draft picks) and signed both Fleischmann & Mueller. All 3 of those guys are capable of putting up 50-60 pts per season and have proven that. We definitely need more than those 3 guys (and Weiss to return to 50+ pt form) but just pointing out that we do have a few proven scorers.

I think what you're trying to say is you want an elite forward which is extremely difficult to acquire via trade. Lets take Rick Nash as an example since he was just traded. He really only wanted to go to the Rangers to start with so you have to get out that part (stigma of a player coming here over other teams). Then it would require trading our 1st, one of our top 3 prospects, and then 2 roster players who could produce 40 pts/yr with have good size & can play 2-way hockey. We dont even have 2 guys right now that could produce at that rate that are comparable to Anisimov or Dubinsky. Dont think I'd want to lose our 1st round pick right now either. It will never require just prospects to get the player you want...its gonna require roster players, draft picks and prospects and some of the pieces that other teams want, we just dont have, plain & simple, or we wouldnt need to be acquiring a player.

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01-30-2013, 02:17 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanHuberdoh View Post
This team lacks offense. A TON of it. Even last year we struggled to score 3 goals a game, does no one remember this?

This team is a joke if they think they can solve offensive woes that have lasted here for over a decade through just the draft. We need to make trades and acquire players that are proven NHL scorers.

Right now, you bring a kid in and he will learn NOTHING because there is no one on this team that can score over 60 points in a season. There's no one to learn from in terms of offensive game.

For so long I've been starved for offence on this team. Every single year I beg and I plead, please get us some goal scorers. Get us a TRUE SNIPER. But the every year it's the same old crap. We struggle to score because we ice a roster of 90% grinders.

Drafting Mackinnon does almost nothing for this team because he won't be an impact player with us if he comes to the NHL and has to play with the ELITE TALENT of Shawn Matthias and Jack Skille.

EDIT-And for the inevitable folks who reply and say "and how do you expect to make those trades". Well I expect to make them with our prospects/roster players. We have built this mass of good prospects. What good teams do is trade some of those prospects. They're chips that can be used to acquire proven NHL talent. Look at what the Blue Jays did in baseball this off-season. Built up a ton of prospects and traded a few for proven talent. I know we won't emulate the Jays it's just an example.

We need to trade some prospects, that's the bottom line. If we continuously wait for guys to develop, we will never be a great team.
I see what you are saying but you can draft offensive talent. I mean, how else do these guys get in the league in the first place to become proven? I have faith in Tallon's ability to recognize talent, and that includes offensive talent. If other GMs can do it why not him? If you can get talent through the draft, then you don't have to give anything up for it. I think this boils down to if the individual is willing to wait on it (offensive talent) or not.

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