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Value of E.Johnson?

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01-26-2013, 10:18 AM
  #26
Frenchy
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Well their argument were that PK is gonna be a top 10 Dman in the league in like +/- 5years.

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01-26-2013, 10:51 AM
  #27
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Don't see wht johnson can't be either i think EJ will be the better all round d man who can carry a D better then PK

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01-26-2013, 10:59 AM
  #28
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I'd rather have EJ than Subban going forward. Subban just seems to be such a divisive character, on and off the ice. When you have a fight as a skill guy and your team mates don't tap their sticks, something is wrong. When you have a bunch of fights/altercations in practice, something is wrong.

Subban is a very good player and comes across as a really smart guy off the ice. But there is something about him that makes me not want him on this team.

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01-26-2013, 11:03 AM
  #29
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I prefer EJ to Subban quite easily all things considered, even though PK is the more electric talent.

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01-26-2013, 11:11 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
A couple of nights ago on RDS they were talking about PK Subban ( like always ) and they had a list of Dman that would have +/- the same value of PK . EJ was on that list and they all agreed, that in a trade , EJ have less value than PK on a 1on 1 deal. If the offer for PK was on the table for the Avs that Sherman should pull the trigger.
Lol..WHAT? Did Subban have a 50+ point season that I missed somewhere? One 38 point season and one 36 point season and suddenly he's set to become a top 10 d-man in the league?? While I admit he does have good upside to get better, he's not exactly a defensive stalwart. Since he's led the league in minor penalties for both of those years, that leads me believe that he's caught out of position quite frequently and needs to haul someone down to compensate.

While I admit, that I'm negatively biased towards this player, those 'analysts' on RDS are TRYING to be objective all the while trying to counteract the local habs propaganda brainwashing that always seems to happen with their players. After it's all said and done, they try to stay away from the apparent FRANCHISE D-MAN label that everyone and his uncle (that also INCLUDES PK of course) are prematurely trying to pin on PK so they scale it back a little, thinking everyone can't be wrong on this.

It's the CHRIS HIGGINS SYNDROME. After two 38 point season and one 52 point season, according to all Hab fans and analysts, he was set to become "a top 10 powerforward in the league". How did that work out exactly?? Was it any different for Andrei Kostitsyn? Even a prospect like Perezhogin was insanely overhyped.

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Originally Posted by Landeskog The Viking View Post
I just don't see how PK could do all EJ can do for us. Maybe put up more poiints but EJ has that potential at worst i see EJ like Suter with more size/speed
Yup and there's a real possibility that PK could end up a defender with the same traits as Denis Wideman and James Wisniewski. Putting up points will give you a nice paycheck but generally, SMART teams won't break the bank if you can't play at the other end of the ice.

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Well their argument were that PK is gonna be a top 10 Dman in the league in like +/- 5years.
Offensively, maybe...there's a good chance. Overall, he's got a lot of work to do and perhaps most importantly of all, he's going to have to be open to making changes to his game to improve defensively. He may very well be able to do this, however his general attitude and massive ego may get in the way. It will be very interesting to see how it all unfolds.

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01-26-2013, 11:40 AM
  #31
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id love to have PK and EJ but to trade straight up no thanks

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01-26-2013, 01:01 PM
  #32
Pierce Hawthorne
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I just wish EJ would have a really good year stats wise so people can finally realize he actually is a #1 Dman right now.

I mean the only thing people are looking at are his stats, and because he was a minus player with less then 30 points they think he's been bad for us

I wonder if people would finally agree he's becoming a #1 Dman, if he were to go out and put up 25 points this year and say a +10 rating while averaging 23-25 mins a night.

I would bet people would still argue that he's not a #1 even after a year like that. He just seems like a player everyones gonna love to hate because he went 1st overall and hasn't lit the world on fire yet. I mean he's only 24 years old. Look at Pronger and Chara there first few years in the NHL. Even guys like Myers/Bogosian have been no more impressive then EJ lately, but they're still considered young stars.

Even Suter's stats are pretty comparable to EJ's for the first few years, other then +/- which aren't, all that far apart.


Last edited by Pierce Hawthorne: 01-26-2013 at 01:08 PM.
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Old
01-26-2013, 01:05 PM
  #33
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Highly doubt the Avs will trade for Subban when he has the same agency as O'Reilly. One player from there is enoughl

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01-26-2013, 01:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I just wish EJ would have a really good year stats wise so people can finally realize he actually is a #1 Dman right now.

I mean the only thing people are looking at are his stats, and because he was a minus player with less then 30 points they think he's been bad for us

I wonder if people would finally agree he's becoming a #1 Dman, if he were to go out and put up 25 points this year and say a +10 rating while averaging 23-25 mins a night.

I would bet people would still argue that he's not a #1 even after a year like that. He just seems like a player everyones gonna love to hate because he went 1st overall and hasn't lit the world on fire yet. I mean he's only 24 years old. Look at Pronger and Chara there first few years in the NHL. Even guys like Myers/Bogosian have been no more impressive then EJ lately, but they're still considered young stars.

Even Suter's stats are pretty comparable to EJ's for the first few years, other then +/- which aren't, all that far apart.
Who cares what other team's fans think? He's awesome for us, we know this, the team knows this, and if league wide interest in him is low, that just means less teams likely to give him a crazy contract when this one runs out.

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01-26-2013, 01:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I just wish EJ would have a really good year stats wise so people can finally realize he actually is a #1 Dman right now.
A lot of people have no clue how good EJ is.

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01-26-2013, 01:54 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Who cares what other team's fans think? He's awesome for us, we know this, the team knows this, and if league wide interest in him is low, that just means less teams likely to give him a crazy contract when this one runs out.
Sadly NHL FO people from around the league are a bit smarter than your average HFBoards poster.

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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
I just wish EJ would have a really good year stats wise so people can finally realize he actually is a #1 Dman right now.

I mean the only thing people are looking at are his stats, and because he was a minus player with less then 30 points they think he's been bad for us

I wonder if people would finally agree he's becoming a #1 Dman, if he were to go out and put up 25 points this year and say a +10 rating while averaging 23-25 mins a night.

I would bet people would still argue that he's not a #1 even after a year like that. He just seems like a player everyones gonna love to hate because he went 1st overall and hasn't lit the world on fire yet. I mean he's only 24 years old. Look at Pronger and Chara there first few years in the NHL. Even guys like Myers/Bogosian have been no more impressive then EJ lately, but they're still considered young stars.

Even Suter's stats are pretty comparable to EJ's for the first few years, other then +/- which aren't, all that far apart.
At this point in time Myers is nowhere near close to EJ's level, that BUF-COL thread on the main boards is full of face-palm worthy material.

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01-26-2013, 01:55 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Who cares what other team's fans think? He's awesome for us, we know this, the team knows this, and if league wide interest in him is low, that just means less teams likely to give him a crazy contract when this one runs out.
This is what I'm thinking now. As long as the Avs are winning, and he keeps playing like he has then that's all that really matters.

Only way people will see how good he can be is if the Avs make the playoffs. Some national exposure and it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of people say that EJ's way better than they thought.

Stats wise the rest of HF won't recognize him as a #1 until he plays 24+ mins a night, with close to 40 points in a season.

In general though, he will always be looked down upon because of his draft position. Norris or bust for most people.

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01-26-2013, 01:59 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post


At this point in time Myers is nowhere near close to EJ's level, that BUF-COL thread on the main boards is full of face-palm worthy material.
Myers is actually a really interesting player. I haven't watched much of Buffalo at all the last 2 years, so I always assumed that Myers has only been getting better since his Calder year. But I looked at the Sabres thread today and saw that they were actually saying the same thing. They didn't think the Avs would do that Myers trade.

I never realized before today that Myers has been very disappointing since the Calder year. And yea I would agree now that EJ is the better Dman, and Oreilly is worth more then Myers.

But, I would still consider Myers to be in the same tier as EJ. Still has a tonne of potential and still a good Dman, just not the Calder winner that he was, at least not right now.

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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
This is what I'm thinking now. As long as the Avs are winning, and he keeps playing like he has then that's all that really matters.

Only way people will see how good he can be is if the Avs make the playoffs. Some national exposure and it wouldn't surprise me to see a lot of people say that EJ's way better than they thought.

Stats wise the rest of HF won't recognize him as a #1 until he plays 24+ mins a night, with close to 40 points in a season.

In general though, he will always be looked down upon because of his draft position. Norris or bust for most people.
Agree on the point about playoffs. That's the reason McDonagh and OEL are considered to be gods among men right now, is because everyone saw them in the playoffs. If we can make playoffs everyone will see EJ. And this time next year EJ will ne just like the 2 of them.

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01-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
Myers is actually a really interesting player. I haven't watched much of Buffalo at all the last 2 years, so I always assumed that Myers has only been getting better since his Calder year. But I looked at the Sabres thread today and saw that they were actually saying the same thing. They didn't think the Avs would do that Myers trade.

I never realized before today that Myers has been very disappointing since the Calder year. And yea I would agree now that EJ is the better Dman, and Oreilly is worth more then Myers.

But, I would still consider Myers to be in the same tier as EJ. Still has a tonne of potential and still a good Dman, just not the Calder winner that he was, at least not right now.



Agree on the point about playoffs. That's the reason McDonagh and OEL are considered to be gods among men right now, is because everyone saw them in the playoffs. If we can make playoffs everyone will see EJ. And this time next year EJ will ne just like the 2 of them.
He's like Hedman, plays way too soft for his frame, he looks lost out there a lot of times as well.

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01-26-2013, 02:10 PM
  #40
Pierce Hawthorne
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He's like Hedman, plays way too soft for his frame, he looks lost out there a lot of times as well.
Yea that's really interesting. I actually had no idea that he was considered this poorly now, even Sabres fans have seen it.

Im gonna start watching him a little bit I think, see if he can improve himself. Hedman is a good comparable if that's the case.

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01-26-2013, 08:04 PM
  #41
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Lol..WHAT? Did Subban have a 50+ point season that I missed somewhere? One 38 point season and one 36 point season and suddenly he's set to become a top 10 d-man in the league?? While I admit he does have good upside to get better, he's not exactly a defensive stalwart. Since he's led the league in minor penalties for both of those years, that leads me believe that he's caught out of position quite frequently and needs to haul someone down to compensate.

While I admit, that I'm negatively biased towards this player, those 'analysts' on RDS are TRYING to be objective all the while trying to counteract the local habs propaganda brainwashing that always seems to happen with their players. After it's all said and done, they try to stay away from the apparent FRANCHISE D-MAN label that everyone and his uncle (that also INCLUDES PK of course) are prematurely trying to pin on PK so they scale it back a little, thinking everyone can't be wrong on this.

It's the CHRIS HIGGINS SYNDROME. After two 38 point season and one 52 point season, according to all Hab fans and analysts, he was set to become "a top 10 powerforward in the league". How did that work out exactly?? Was it any different for Andrei Kostitsyn? Even a prospect like Perezhogin was insanely overhyped.



Yup and there's a real possibility that PK could end up a defender with the same traits as Denis Wideman and James Wisniewski. Putting up points will give you a nice paycheck but generally, SMART teams won't break the bank if you can't play at the other end of the ice.



Offensively, maybe...there's a good chance. Overall, he's got a lot of work to do and perhaps most importantly of all, he's going to have to be open to making changes to his game to improve defensively. He may very well be able to do this, however his general attitude and massive ego may get in the way. It will be very interesting to see how it all unfolds.
Hey there , dont kill the messenger , It's not my fault , that's what they said on RDS

Bender almost had a heart attack , next time i'll think twice b4 posting stuff from RDS

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01-26-2013, 11:07 PM
  #42
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Hey there , dont kill the messenger , It's not my fault , that's what they said on RDS

Bender almost had a heart attack , next time i'll think twice b4 posting stuff from RDS
It's all good, I know that you pretty much already agree with me with this guy.

I'm just appauled at how overrated Subban is.

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01-27-2013, 02:00 AM
  #43
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Today against the sharks (just saw the game several hours after it was played) San Jose scored 3 powerplay goals. EJ was on the ice for all three against. Especially on the first two and somewhat on the third, Johnson seemed to be somewhat out of position to cover the San Jose forwards down low close to the net.

Of course, I am sorta still starting to understand hockey and rather inexperienced in the analysis of the game. Were the goals EJ's fault in any of varying degrees of magnitude or were the goals scored more from excellently performed plays by SJ? Or was it possibly the result of Wilson/our forwards being out of position or even Varlamov? Seems to me that it is at least a little bit of each of these factors that contributed to the goals but I want your guys' opinions.

Oh and another thing, TOI for our D-men tonight:
Hunwick- 22:21
Johnson- 21:16
Wilson- 21:14
Zanon- 20:58
Hejda- 19:55
O'byrne- 12:01

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01-27-2013, 09:59 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by jonesin 4 jones View Post
Today against the sharks (just saw the game several hours after it was played) San Jose scored 3 powerplay goals. EJ was on the ice for all three against. Especially on the first two and somewhat on the third, Johnson seemed to be somewhat out of position to cover the San Jose forwards down low close to the net.

Of course, I am sorta still starting to understand hockey and rather inexperienced in the analysis of the game. Were the goals EJ's fault in any of varying degrees of magnitude or were the goals scored more from excellently performed plays by SJ? Or was it possibly the result of Wilson/our forwards being out of position or even Varlamov? Seems to me that it is at least a little bit of each of these factors that contributed to the goals but I want your guys' opinions.

Oh and another thing, TOI for our D-men tonight:
Hunwick- 22:21
Johnson- 21:16
Wilson- 21:14
Zanon- 20:58
Hejda- 19:55
O'byrne- 12:01
On the 3rd goal absolutely not. EJ was right in front of the net and there were 3 forwards there. He was all over Clowe and effectively took Clowe out of the play, unfortunately Thornton was right there to and none of the forwards came to take Thornton and he scored. Not EJ's fault at all cause he couldn't do anything to stop it, he was with Clowe.

And on the 1st goal he also wasn't at fault. Shot came and the rebound basically went right into the scrum of players and Marleau was fortunate enough to get his stick on the puck before anyone else. But EJ wasn't out of position.

I cant remember where EJ was to for the 2nd goal, but on a tic tac toe goal like that, there only chance of stopping it was to intercept the pass, and it didn't happen.

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01-27-2013, 10:59 AM
  #45
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First one, Couture's foot hooked Johnson's foot and dragged him to the ice. Odds are if that didn't happen, he would have still been standing and may have been able to cover his guy.

Second one, he goes for a shot block and the pass goes by him and Wilson.

Third one, 2 Sharks and just EJ. Not really sure how he was supposed to cover both guys there.

As for the ice time, he probably would have tied Hunwick at ~22 mins, but instead he decided to just run that Sharks player and take a penalty.

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01-27-2013, 11:26 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
On the 3rd goal absolutely not. EJ was right in front of the net and there were 3 forwards there. He was all over Clowe and effectively took Clowe out of the play, unfortunately Thornton was right there to and none of the forwards came to take Thornton and he scored. Not EJ's fault at all cause he couldn't do anything to stop it, he was with Clowe.

And on the 1st goal he also wasn't at fault. Shot came and the rebound basically went right into the scrum of players and Marleau was fortunate enough to get his stick on the puck before anyone else. But EJ wasn't out of position.

I cant remember where EJ was to for the 2nd goal, but on a tic tac toe goal like that, there only chance of stopping it was to intercept the pass, and it didn't happen.
edit - I didn't see Couture catch EJ's skate. That is exactly what happened.

I would like to see EJ playing dirtier. Not going out of his way to hit guys, but chippy stuff that makes players hate playing against you. Like Pronger.

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01-27-2013, 11:28 AM
  #47
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Yes he was. If you think that Quinn draws up the PK with EJ falling on the ice to the side of the net you would be incorrect. That was his side of the net to cover and , well I have no idea what he was doing.

And I am not saying this as a Vendetta against EJ. He has played very well for us to start the season. But it seems most Avs fans have it set in their mind that he doesn't make mistakes and is a "beast" when in actuality, he is probably a #2 on most teams.
As the poster above you said, he didn't just fall to the ice. his skate and Coutures got caught up, hardly EJ at fault on that.

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01-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #48
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It's all good, I know that you pretty much already agree with me with this guy.

I'm just appauled at how overrated Subban is.
oh no , not pretty much , i agree with you at 100% when it's about PK.

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01-30-2013, 11:20 AM
  #49
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A lot of people have no clue how good EJ is.
I was thinking about him the other day. When he was drafted he looked like he could be one of the best D man in NHL history. Seems like the NHL world has forgetten about him, yet he still looks dam good every time I see him. Do you guys stillt think he has tons of upside?

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01-30-2013, 11:22 AM
  #50
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I was thinking about him the other day. When he was drafted he looked like he could be one of the best D man in NHL history. Seems like the NHL world has forgetten about him, yet he still looks dam good every time I see him. Do you guys stillt think he has tons of upside?
He has another level he shows every now and again. There's Hulk-EJ and regular EJ. Regular EJ is a #2 defender that will still dictate the play defensively but is less effective offensively.

Hulk-EJ is what he showed a bit of in the 3rd against the Oilers where he's in your face, skating hard and creative offensively.

I hope he can find a way to consistently play to his abilities, but so far there's something preventing it. Be it his partner (definitely doesn't help) the coach (definitely doesn't help) or him.

I swear, if Sacco plays Wilson more than EJ again the guy deserves to be pimp slapped.

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