Now now. Either be part of the solution and take the bet as it stands or bow out gacefully while you still can.
I don't even want you gone, you're too entertaining. But good on you for sticking with your thoughts from the beginning after pages and pages. Even though I completely disagree with it.
what Martini does not seem to understand is that Toronto was almost a fringe playoff team before the trade. He seems to think our core is now the Marlins core, who failed terribly last year. When in fact we simply added the core of one to team, to our own core, without giving anything up, unless you count Alvarez. The prospects may have ended up core players for us but were not.
So we had Bautista, EE, Lawrie, Rasmus, and Arencia last year, and now have added Reyes, Cabrera, and Izturis to replace Johnson, Davis/Thames and Escobar. We also replace Alvarez with JJ, and Villanuava with Buehrle.
I dont think Martini understands that.
Could Toronto flop? Absolutely, but any team could, and the odds of Toronto not making the playoffs have gone from 50/50 last year (who knows if we had a healthy pitching rotation) to about 95/5.
Martini you are too caught up with Toronto being Toronto, and ignoring the players on the team. Even Vegas has picked Toronto as WS favorites. Yet you are CONVINCED they cannot make the playoffs.
Just take a step back, look at the situation rationally, and realize that maybe your opinion, which is different from the entire baseball world, may be incorrect, or the result of prior motives (such as you wont accept Toronto being good, because Toronto is never good.)
what Martini does not seem to understand is that Toronto was almost a fringe playoff team before the trade. He seems to think our core is now the Marlins core, who failed terribly last year. When in fact we simply added the core of one to team, to our own core, without giving anything up, unless you count Alvarez. The prospects may have ended up core players for us but were not.
So we had Bautista, EE, Lawrie, Rasmus, and Arencia last year, and now have added Reyes, Cabrera, and Izturis to replace Johnson, Davis/Thames and Escobar. We also replace Alvarez with JJ, and Villanuava with Buehrle.
I dont think Martini understands that.
Could Toronto flop? Absolutely, but any team could, and the odds of Toronto not making the playoffs have gone from 50/50 last year (who knows if we had a healthy pitching rotation) to about 95/5.
Martini you are too caught up with Toronto being Toronto, and ignoring the players on the team. Even Vegas has picked Toronto as WS favorites. Yet you are CONVINCED they cannot make the playoffs.
Just take a step back, look at the situation rationally, and realize that maybe your opinion, which is different from the entire baseball world, may be incorrect, or the result of prior motives (such as you wont accept Toronto being good, because Toronto is never good.)
They were playing .500 ball until end of July / start of August. It went down the hill from there. Only Red Sox were harder hit with injuries last season.
what Martini does not seem to understand is that Toronto was almost a fringe playoff team before the trade.
LOL. If that was the case then the Royals were also a "fringe" playoff team considering they only lost one more game then the Jays and played in what many like to point out a weaker dividion?
Theres hope even still for the Cubs, it seems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
He seems to think our core is now the Marlins core, who failed terribly last year.
The Jays core is the Marlins core with the makeshift pieces the Jays had before as complimentary pieces. Lets not put the horses ahead of the cart. The Jays were a team in shambles and now have players who failed at being the main cogs in a wheel with the exception of Burh who had no problems being a innings eater on the White Sox when they won the WS. AA did the unthinkable when he decided to blow up his team and use a template that already failed to re-invent his team that was very pedestrian to begin with. Didnt work before and wont work again in an even more competitive division with proven winners such as the Yankees and Rays.
A 38 year old gimmick pitcher isnt the deal breaker when you have teams that top to bottom know how to win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
When in fact we simply added the core of one to team, to our own core, without giving anything up, unless you count Alvarez. The prospects may have ended up core players for us but were not.
What do you mean the Jays didnt give up anything? They had argueably the best minor league system in all of baseball and now have been ranked in the bottom 20's on account of all the desperation trades made. Thats alot to give up for a 38 year old pitcher and a clique of high priced players who couldnt stand the pressure of being the top guys on a team that was considered to run away with the NL east last year. Fast forward to this year and sure enough, you have a team who made all these trades to stay relevent in a more competitive division and sure enough, those same players who were aquired last year are those same players now, again, chosen to lead yet another fruitless team in terms of actual accomplishment to the glory of a division title and already have a track record of failing.
Sorry, but the proven talent aquired already has the stigma of being nothing compared to those same prospects traded who have proven.....wait for it...nothing in the major leagues. Ah, a CY and a bevy of all star appearances sure do look good on paper, but the fact remains outside of Burh there is nothing but careers festered in mediocrity when actual winning is the most important thing and one of the reasons why AA made all those trades in the first place.
I dont see Burh leading the Jays to the promise land when he was nothing but another pitcher on a WS team that was riding on the back of Contreas to one opf the most dominating post seasons in the history of baseball.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
So we had Bautista, EE, Lawrie, Rasmus, and Arencia last year, and now have added Reyes, Cabrera, and Izturis to replace Johnson, Davis/Thames and Escobar. We also replace Alvarez with JJ, and Villanuava with Buehrle.
Um, ok? This phantom "core" that the Jays had was in no way shape or form anywhere near a competitive team and more just random pieces other teams really didnt want. I mean, Bautista was traded how many times before until he finally found a home on a team that didnt have the horses to run and just put him out there? That isnt a "core", thats just players collecting paychecks from a MLB team. The Jays core just came there this offseason and lo and behold, they have already proven to be a failure when the pressure was on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
I dont think Martini understands that.
Of course. Its quite easy for anybody who is a fan to proclaim the person who doesnt think their respected team is anything special when, thru suffering years and years of mediocirty suddenly the GM wakes up and decides to blow his team up and start, instead from scratch, but by using his one commodity, a very deep farm system, and bringing in meh talent for the sake of being somewhat considered a general manager. A GM who has done nothing to bring an actual team to a franchise that is in one of the best divisions in baseball. Of course, Martini just doesnt understand the suffering considering his team has won a WS in 2005 and was one of the greatest playoff teams in the history of baseball. That damn Martini. He should suffer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
Could Toronto flop? Absolutely, but any team could, and the odds of Toronto not making the playoffs have gone from 50/50 last year (who knows if we had a healthy pitching rotation) to about 95/5.
you mean to tell anybody the Jays have a 95% chance at making the playoffs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
Martini you are too caught up with Toronto being Toronto, and ignoring the players on the team. Even Vegas has picked Toronto as WS favorites. Yet you are CONVINCED they cannot make the playoffs.
Vegas also had, for many years, the Flubs odds on favorites to win the WS, and also gave the Marlins great odds on winning it last year. How did that work out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayRoadkill
Just take a step back, look at the situation rationally, and realize that maybe your opinion, which is different from the entire baseball world, may be incorrect, or the result of prior motives (such as you wont accept Toronto being good, because Toronto is never good.)
I could care less what the baseball world says, many times, unless they are predicting the Yankees to make the playoffs which is pretty much a lock every year, they make these glamour picks just for the sake of short attention spans and only see what they see as some team making huge moves during the offseason that dont amount to anything when the games are actually played. I apologize that just some random team who decides to blow up their minor league system for the sake of a short window to try and compete just doesnt cut it with me.
I mean....I will leave this place if I am wrong and all...which I wont be but.
Man, it's hilarious how weak and pathetic your (Martini) arguments are but I love watching you make a fool of yourself. Pretty clear that your jealous of and threatened by the Jays. I'm certainly not convinced that the Jays will make playoffs but to say they have no chance and aren't a favourite is just flat-out retarded.
Man, it's hilarious how weak and pathetic your (Martini) arguments are but I love watching you make a fool of yourself. Pretty clear that your jealous of and threatened by the Jays. I'm certainly not convinced that the Jays will make playoffs but to say they have no chance and aren't a favourite is just flat-out retarded.
Martini can't express his views? I see nothing wrong with what he said. To go from 70 wins to nearly 90+ in a span of a year is a HUGE leap. Personally, I think the Jays finish outside of the playoffs with the Yankees winning the division, Rays going 2nd and Blue Jays 3rd, narrowly missing out the 3rd WC spot to the Rangers.
Also think the Rays 2B/SS combo in Johnson and Escobar will do better than Izturis/Reyes at a fraction of the cost.
Also think the Rays 2B/SS combo in Johnson and Escobar will do better than Izturis/Reyes at a fraction of the cost.
On what basis?
Given what we witnessed over the past two seasons that is a somewhat outlandish position to take. Unless of course you think that both Reyes and Izturis compile sub-.680 OPS's like the two-headed monster did for the Jays last season. The odds of that happening, however, are somewhat... minimal (generously-speaking) to say the least.
