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Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:06 AM
  #76
Shrimper
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I dreamt we signed Tom Kostopoulos the other day. Weird.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:33 AM
  #77
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I dreamt we signed Tom Kostopoulos the other day. Weird.
Dream we win the stanley cup

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:57 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SicKFreaK View Post
dont have too much time before i have to go to work nor am i awake enough to put be very specific...

but hypothetically if shero made up his mind to make some serious changes and experiement this season... these are just some ideas to discuss.i mean things could be added on either or both ends to make fair but these are some starting blocks

Letang to LA for Bernier+

MAF&kunitz+ to leafs for kumelin&kessel

cooke&tk to flames Bouwmester

pick/prospects to PHX for Yandle
Is Bernier really a #1 goalie in this league? Then if he is we can get him for less then Letang. Cooke has a NTC, and that's not enough for Bouwmester. We couldn't get Kulemin and Kessel. If TO was rebuilding, then they don't want MAF and Kunitz. If they're contending, then they don't move Kule and Kessel.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:28 AM
  #79
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Realistically, I wish this had happened in the off-season.

- Don't put all of our eggs in the Suter/Parise basket
- Pick Grigorenko
- Trade Michalek and say Tangradi for D'Agostini
- Sign Mueller for 2 years

Mueller - Crosby - D'Agostini
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kennedy - Sutter - Cooke/Dupuis
Jeffrey - Vitale - Cooke/Dupuis

Letang - Niskanen
Martin - Orpik
Michalek - Despres/Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Unfortunately that didn't happen. What I hope happens is:

- We trade for Ryan Malone
- Get Kunitz outta here
- Go HARD after Perry this summer
- Fire Bylsma

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:32 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Realistically, I wish this had happened in the off-season.

- Don't put all of our eggs in the Suter/Parise basket
- Pick Grigorenko
- Trade Michalek and say Tangradi for D'Agostini
- Sign Mueller for 2 years

Mueller - Crosby - D'Agostini
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kennedy - Sutter - Cooke/Dupuis
Jeffrey - Vitale - Cooke/Dupuis

Letang - Niskanen
Martin - Orpik
Michalek - Despres/Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Unfortunately that didn't happen. What I hope happens is:

- We trade for Ryan Malone
- Get Kunitz outta here
- Go HARD after Perry this summer- Fire Bylsma

Dont think you can pencil in Michalek once you have traded him.

Signing Mueller to a 2 year deal with his concussion history and play is not smart. A
1-year deal wouldnt have been bad tho.

Is going hard for Perry (who I would love) not the same as putting your all your eggs in 1 basket for Parise/Suter? Could be the same results

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:36 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Realistically, I wish this had happened in the off-season.

- Don't put all of our eggs in the Suter/Parise basket
- Pick Grigorenko
- Trade Michalek and say Tangradi for D'Agostini
- Sign Mueller for 2 years

Mueller - Crosby - D'Agostini
Kunitz - Malkin - Neal
Kennedy - Sutter - Cooke/Dupuis
Jeffrey - Vitale - Cooke/Dupuis

Letang - Niskanen
Martin - Orpik
Michalek - Despres/Engelland

Fleury
Vokoun

Unfortunately that didn't happen. What I hope happens is:

- We trade for Ryan Malone
- Get Kunitz outta here
- Go HARD after Perry this summer
- Fire Bylsma
I wouldn't have minded Shero entertaining offers for the 8th overall pick the second he got it. You could've gotten a top six winger. Not elite, but I'll bet STL would've talked Stewart or TOR would've talked Kulemin+.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:40 AM
  #82
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Personally, I see that we need to fix our winger situation. Some of the players we have are expendable.

Brendan Morrow isn't happy with this role in Dallas as he's currently playing on the fourth line logging less than 10 minutes a game. He could be weak trade value wise as he's not playing much and isn't doing that well;

Morrow for Tangradi + Jeffrey + 5th.

Makes the first two lines the following:

Morrow-Crosby-XXX
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

There's a gap on Crosby's wing that could see Dupuis put there but I don't see him as 1st line calibre if we want to improve our team so I'd say give Beau Bennett a run and if that doesn't work out then Dupuis can go there until the end of the season where we can then get someone in FA such as Michael Ryder

Morrow-Crosby-Bennett/Dupuis
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Chad Kolarik

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Despres
Niksanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

Fleury
Vokoun

End of the season we get rid of Lovejoy, resign Dupuis and Kunitz for lower deals on one year deals. Resign Morrow and get Ryder.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Personally, I see that we need to fix our winger situation. Some of the players we have are expendable.

Brendan Morrow isn't happy with this role in Dallas as he's currently playing on the fourth line logging less than 10 minutes a game. He could be weak trade value wise as he's not playing much and isn't doing that well;

Morrow for Tangradi + Jeffrey + 5th.

Makes the first two lines the following:

Morrow-Crosby-XXX
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

There's a gap on Crosby's wing that could see Dupuis put there but I don't see him as 1st line calibre if we want to improve our team so I'd say give Beau Bennett a run and if that doesn't work out then Dupuis can go there until the end of the season where we can then get someone in FA such as Michael Ryder

Morrow-Crosby-Bennett/Dupuis
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis/Kennedy
Glass-Vitale-Adams
Chad Kolarik

Orpik-Martin
Letang-Despres
Niksanen-Engelland
Lovejoy

Fleury
Vokoun

End of the season we get rid of Lovejoy, resign Dupuis and Kunitz for lower deals on one year deals. Resign Morrow and get Ryder.
Morrow doesn't fix the winger situation as much as he's another third wheel whose presence allows you to slot Dupuis more appropriately.

EDIT: Oh, and if I'm the GM, the only three guys who aren't touchable under any circumstance are Crosby, Malkin, and Neal.

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:43 AM
  #84
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I think Morrow would work well. Really though, anything can be better than Dupuis. Morrow's trade value is really low so he's worth a trade if you ask me.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:05 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Dont think you can pencil in Michalek once you have traded him.

Signing Mueller to a 2 year deal with his concussion history and play is not smart. A
1-year deal wouldnt have been bad tho.

Is going hard for Perry (who I would love) not the same as putting your all your eggs in 1 basket for Parise/Suter? Could be the same results
That's my bad...

The problem with our situation last summer was that we traded away a lot of valuable cap (Staal, Michalek) to get them. Because we didn't, we were left with a weaker team. I think we can afford Perry if we make some smart offseason deals.

Say we do grab Malone at the deadline and get rid of Kunitz

2013-14 Pittsburgh Penguins

FORWARDS

Beau Bennett (0.900m)/ Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Corey Perry ($7.500m)
James Neal ($5.000m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / Ryan Malone ($4.500m)
Eric Tangradi (0.700m) / Brandon Sutter ($2.067m) / Pascal Dupuis ($1.000m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Dustin Jeffrey ($0.688m)

DEFENSEMEN
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Scott Harrington ($0.894m) / Deryk Engelland ($0.567m)

GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:07 PM
  #86
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We have to hope that the Ducks are still in the hunt come the deadline so that Perry doesn't get traded away this season and is able to test free agency.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:14 PM
  #87
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Tampa's doing well so I doubt they'll be trading veterans like Malone. I also can guarantee the Pens aren't giving up on Kunitz based on 6 games. He's had back to back very good seasons. For some reason he's off to a slow start. It has to be tough for these guys with a one week training camp and no real preseason games. These guys are still probably in preseason mode physically and mentally.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
We have to hope that the Ducks are still in the hunt come the deadline so that Perry doesn't get traded away this season and is able to test free agency.
I'd personally rather give up the assets at the deadline and use Perry for a cup run. You win a cup with the guy, he is very likely to re-sign. I want no part of the free agency bidding wars again because we will lose.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:28 PM
  #89
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You have to ask yourself: how in the world are we losing out on bidding wars involving WINGERS when we're actually offering market value???

It doesn't make any sense.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
Tampa's doing well so I doubt they'll be trading veterans like Malone. I also can guarantee the Pens aren't giving up on Kunitz based on 6 games. He's had back to back very good seasons. For some reason he's off to a slow start. It has to be tough for these guys with a one week training camp and no real preseason games. These guys are still probably in preseason mode physically and mentally.
But the rest of the league isn't? I have no sympathy for how bad he is playing when other guys are doing significantly better.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:49 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You have to ask yourself: how in the world are we losing out on bidding wars involving WINGERS when we're actually offering market value???

It doesn't make any sense.
Player preferences. Parise wanted to go home, Jagr wanted more money. Hossa wanted to win a Cup and thought Detroit was his best chance. But other wingers just weren't in our price range recently.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:55 PM
  #92
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It was a mistake not acquiring someone to replace Sullivan. Sid and Geno are not comfortable playing the point, nor is Neal. And Letang is god awful there as well.

That's on Shero.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:03 PM
  #93
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Originally posted in the Bylsma thread but probably belongs here instead:

In response to Chancellor Vitale, emphasis mine...
Quote:
But make no mistake: no forward that we would've drafted in the slots we had available, would've made this team last year or this year and therefore would not have helped this team even though they're good players with upside (see also: Bennett, who isn't far from making the team and IS a very good F talent... but just isn't ready yet after only a season or so of college hockey and a few months in WBS).
Just for fun I went ahead and looked at Shero's 1-3 round drafts from 2006 to present, and this is pretty much spot on, with few exceptions. I ignored players taken in the fourth round or later -if there are top-6 guys playing now that were drafted later than that, it's clear that other teams missed on them as well, so no reason to hold it against Shero.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20 and there are no guarantees their career paths would have projected the same way. Also, I'll be the first to admit my knowledge of other teams prospect pool is not amazing, so there may be some guys I overlooked, especially in the most recent drafts. Anyway, here are the rounds, the Pens pick, and any notable forwards picked shortly afterward that would likely be an immediate fit into our top-6 this year or next:

2006
1st
Pens: 2. Jordan Staal
Other: 3. Jonathan Toews, 4. Nick Backstrom, 5. Phil Kessel, 22. Claude Giroux

2nd
Pens: 32. Carl Sneep
Other: 36. Jamie McGinn, 50. Milan Lucic, 54. Artem Anisimov

3rd
Pens: 65. Brian Strait
Other: 72. Cal Clutterbuck

2007
1st
Pens: 20. Angelo Esposito
Other: 22. Max Pacioretty, 26. David Perron

2nd
Pens: 51. Kevin Veilleux
Other: 61. Wayne Simmonds

3rd
Pens: 78. Robert Bortuzzo, 80. Casey Pierro-Zabotel
Other: 99. Matt Frattin

2008
1st
Pens: 29. Traded to ATL
Other: None

2nd
Pens: 60. Traded to TOR
Other: None

3rd
Pens: 90. Traded to NYR
Other: None

2009
1st
Pens: 30. Simon Despres
Other: 35. Kyle Clifford, 39. Jakob Silfverberg

2nd
Pens: 61. Philip Samuelsson
Other: None

3rd
Pens: 63. Ben Hanowski
Other: None

2010
1st
Pens: 20. Beau Bennett
Other: None

2nd
Pens: 50. Traded to FLA
Other: None

3rd
Pens: 80. Bryan Rust
Other: None

2011
1st
Pens: 23. Joe Morrow
Other: None

2nd
Pens: 54. Scott Harrington
Other: None

3rd
Pens: 84. Traded to PHI
Other: None

2012
1st
Pens: 8. Derrick Pouliot, 22. Olli Maatta
Other: 11. Filip Forsberg, 12. Mikhail Grigorenko

2nd
Pens: 52. Teddy Blueger
Other: None

3rd
Pens: Oskar Sundqvist
Other: None

Outside of Staal (gift wrapped) and Bennett, he's not drafted a single forward in the first 3 rounds of any draft from 2006-present that would crack our lineup today. His forward picks over that time are Esposito, Veilleux, CPZ, Hanowski, and Rust. Looking at that list, it's no wonder he has an aversion to drafting forwards.

However, 2007 is really the only year where I'd say he missed a golden opportunity to draft forwards that would be a permanent fixture in our top-6, passing up Pacioretty, Perron, and Simmonds for Esposito and Veilleux. 2012's draft is too recent to make any judgments, though with the depth we have at defense already and the dearth of quality forward prospects, Forsberg and Grigorenko look like they may have been better picks at that position - Forsberg was #1 ranked Euro skater and Grigorenko was #3 NA skater, and I think either could slot in beside Sid or Geno today.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:04 PM
  #94
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It was a mistake not acquiring someone to replace Sullivan. Sid and Geno are not comfortable playing the point, nor is Neal. And Letang is god awful there as well.

That's on Shero.
Didn't need to replace Sullivan, should have kept him. He had enough cap space to keep Sullivan around and go after Parise and Suter, neither of which would have solved the problems the Pens are currently dealing with...

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:10 PM
  #95
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Ruopp could be our next Engelland. His fighting ability has grown greatly.

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01-30-2013, 01:36 PM
  #96
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How about a 5 way trade?

Pens: Reimer, bernier, Chicagos 2nd round pick, Andrew shaw, kulemin

Toronto: luongo, tk, nick shore, pittsburghs 2nd round pick

kings: Komisarek, lovejoy, depress

Chicago: Fleury, grant

Vancouver: Lokitionov, Joe colborne, stuart percy

From the two tell me which one will work and what else will be taken/added in to make these work

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01-30-2013, 01:37 PM
  #97
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or a three-way trade? (im new at this)

Pens: Reimer, bernier, kulemin, Tor 3rd pick

Toronto: Lokinotiv, fleury, pittsburghs 5th round pick

Kings: stuart percy, tk ,pitsburghs 6th round pick, lovejoy

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:41 PM
  #98
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Fleury isn't getting traded. None of this is his fault.

I think we should sign Benjamin Conz. Was talking to Imaginary Threats and he appears to be lighting the league up. only 21 so would be a good pick-up.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:49 PM
  #99
Jag68Sid87
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Fleury isn't getting traded. None of this is his fault.
None of what? The mediocre .500 start? Or our decline since winning the Cup?

Fleury is a direct reflection of where we have gone since winning it all. DIRECT REFLECTION.


NOTE: I do like the Benjamin Conz idea. A LOT.

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:50 PM
  #100
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I dont know, most of the poster on here feel split on fleury, some say he is good, and some want him gone as he hasnt proven himslef as a franchis goalie.

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