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Old
01-30-2013, 12:21 PM
  #701
ajmidd12
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
For those interested, the locals down here are taking a wait and see approach until the close of business Thursday. Even hardcore fans have just gotten tired of the mess. Casual or fring fans have written this team off until something resolves with ownership. Assuming this doesn't close by tomorrow, I think that all but the most delusional fans will agree that the plug is going to be pulled this year. I do not expect it to be pretty unless the Coyotes get on a roll like last year. Final attendance numbers could fall below 10,000.

It really is tough on the organization to labor under this cloud for so long. Hockey just isn't a tier 1 sport in the Valley, and those that may be interested in becoming fans are really put off by the uncertainty. That is why the team can sell out for playoffs, but fall back down to earth with games that have an attendance of 8,500.

For those of you out of town that don't believe the ownership uncertainty should have any significant effect on the attendance, I can see your point. In Canada, the fans would rally in support of the team. But down here the fact is I do think it is the main reason why attendance is lagging even after a Western Conference Finals appearance. If GJ had closed over the summer, even with the lockout, I wouldn't be surprised if the STH base had increase by another 2,500, and most of these games would be at or around 90% capacity.

QC, you may have cause to party in the streets (if its not too cold) starting Feb. 1st.

Cheers
Truth be told, if you are ever around Winnipeg I will gladly take you to a game and buy you a cold beer. You are a classy guy.

With that said, best of luck to you and the rest of the [mod] fans over the next 48 hours.


Last edited by Fugu: 01-30-2013 at 03:44 PM. Reason: fans would be sufficient w/o the adjective :)
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Old
01-30-2013, 12:23 PM
  #702
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Glendale being a small city is of little concern. It is surrounded by Phoenix, Peoria, Avondale, Surprise, Sun City, and Goodyear.
No. Glendale being a small city is of concern. A small municipality budget having to foot the bill of a big city item, in the form of this subsidy.

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Originally Posted by howlinhockey View Post
A casino is being built by the Tohono O'odham Nation nearby as well as the new Tanger Outlets.
Wrong. In fact, the motion for argument from SoA/Gila Bend has been assigned to Judge Campbell but at last check (last Saturday) it hadn't even hit Judge Campbell's calendar. That whole process is still ongoing. It's not a 100% certainty that the TO's will get to build that casino.

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01-30-2013, 12:24 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Truth be told, if you are ever around Winnipeg I will gladly take you to a game and buy you a cold beer. You are a classy guy.

With that said, best of luck to you and the rest of the fans over the next 48 hours.
Family started in Russia, landed in Winnipeg post Russian revolution, then Chicago, and now Scottsdale. If my kids continue the tradition of moving south, our family will be in South America in a few generations.

Thanks and Cheers

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01-30-2013, 12:26 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
For those interested, the locals down here are taking a wait and see approach until the close of business Thursday. Even hardcore fans have just gotten tired of the mess. Casual or fring fans have written this team off until something resolves with ownership. Assuming this doesn't close by tomorrow, I think that all but the most delusional fans will agree that the plug is going to be pulled this year. I do not expect it to be pretty unless the Coyotes get on a roll like last year. Final attendance numbers could fall below 10,000.

It really is tough on the organization to labor under this cloud for so long. Hockey just isn't a tier 1 sport in the Valley, and those that may be interested in becoming fans are really put off by the uncertainty. That is why the team can sell out for playoffs, but fall back down to earth with games that have an attendance of 8,500.

For those of you out of town that don't believe the ownership uncertainty should have any significant effect on the attendance, I can see your point. In Canada, the fans would rally in support of the team. But down here the fact is I do think it is the main reason why attendance is lagging even after a Western Conference Finals appearance. If GJ had closed over the summer, even with the lockout, I wouldn't be surprised if the STH base had increase by another 2,500, and most of these games would be at or around 90% capacity.

QC, you may have cause to party in the streets (if its not too cold) starting Feb. 1st.

Cheers
A classy summary. I was a fan of a team that moved away 20 years ago and it stinks.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:32 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by howlinhockey View Post
Im gonna go out on a limb and guess a majority of you in here would like to see the Coyotes deal fall through and they move to Quebec City? I see Seattle getting the next franchise as they have NBA to co-occupy their facility. What do you have....Curling? LOL

Look I love the passion but to hope and pray for a franchise this way is bad karma. We do have very loyal fans. BUT until ownership is cemented you will see sellout or close on weekends and big games then 10k the mid week games. So to get from an avg of 13k to sellout at 17,125 you need season holders. MANY are waiting on Jamison to make the investment. DEAL will bring more sponsorship and season holders. Suites and ends of ice are the major area for concern. They dont seem priced correctly. You can sit on the blue line for the same price as behind the goal 20 rows. Makes no sense.
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LOL awesome!! BTW Bettman flying out at noon tomorrow to PHX Sky Harbor and will be at the game. Also Greg Jamison and his crew met at Ice Den with coach Dave Tippett and Maloney. They will all be in the Owner's suite tomorrow. Announcement during the Oilers game. So sorry Canada.....open a bowling or curling facility.
You seem to have something against curling. Embrace the sport. Can you think of another sport where you can smoke a cigarette, drink a rum & coke, and still play?

Yes, curling is our country's shame, we know it. But hey, at least it isn't noodling.

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01-30-2013, 12:35 PM
  #706
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Well enlighten me. Do you have any sporting events besides NHL and Curling to pay for a ticket of $50 or more to attend? It is certainly not a diss on Canada it is a fact the entertainment $$$ has far less competition than here in the valley of the Sun. I AGREED several time more teams are needed in Canada. Just because you want a team doesnt mean you have to blast all that is Phoenix and say it is so.

Take tonight for instance the Lakers are in town to take on the Suns the same time the Coyotes take on the Oilers. I myself might have went to the Lakers game instead just to see Nash return. BUT Im hopeful of the announcement tonight. In QC u have neither to choose from. Matter of fact only Toronto has MLB or NBA. If you are in Toronto the above was not meant for you. Quite obvious Toronto is also packed full of options. Sorry your Nordiques left. Any one in here saying they're glad you lost your team, deserved to lose em, or should of supported them better? No cuz we arent that petty.

Hockey is an awesome sport. We will grow it here. Economy is rebounding. Ask DBacks who won it all in 2001 if MLB wont work in AZ. There was a lot more empty seats there this year.
MLS, MLB, NBA, CFL all across the country, Memorial Cup

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by howlinhockey View Post
Wrong again. Glendale will pay over 6 million a year for an empty arena. Westgate will be crushed by losing it's anchor tenant. Glendale can claim they lose 15 million a year but that figure does NOT include taxes gained and tenants brought at Westgate.
Clarkonomics

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:44 PM
  #708
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The COG hasn't agreed to cough up anything for this season.

They coughed up $25 million two seasons ago. $20 million for last season, that as far as any credible sources have said, has yet to be claimed by the NHL. Plus they were suppsoed to contribute an additional $5 million at the closing of the last season which they have not done.

There is no ongoing $25 million commitment from the city.

I believe there is. Unless the NHL and Glendale entered into a new lease in '12 that I am not aware of.


May'11 NHL/COG Lease Amendment:

Quote:
Whereas, in further consideration for the extension of the AMUL for the 2011-12 NHL season, the City shall agree to provide the Owners with the option, in their sole discretion, to extend the AMUL for a period of up to 10 years;

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:46 PM
  #709
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The likely scenario at Westgate if Coyotes leave is a) significant closures of adjoining businesses (have already heard this directly from a couple of restaurant owners), loss of concert contract to a more viable venue (read more traffic), c) potential closure of arena and (Most Importantly) d) a decay of the adjoining area that would threaten future Super Bowls and National Championship games. The last point is of utmost importance to the city and has been quietly used to bring a lot of people into line.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:48 PM
  #710
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You seem to have something against curling. Embrace the sport. Can you think of another sport where you can smoke a cigarette, drink a rum & coke, and still play?

Yes, curling is our country's shame, we know it. But hey, at least it isn't noodling.
LOL READ what I write. I said I love curling and wish I could play it. I was even watching women's CUrling but for different reason. China lol. I enjoyed Curling. Sure it's like bowling and shuffleboard combined but it is something anyone can play...I dont know about the sweeping though. I have NOTHING against Canada or it's wonderful people. Just stating it's not hard to see hockey do well there. Not much else to do is my point. So a home NHL game must be like a bowl game or playoff game in NFL in the states.

Rednecks NOODLE! I go to Nascar....so barely Redneck

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:50 PM
  #711
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Anyone care to speculate on the fact that two long-time owners of the Sharks just sold their interests today? Could they be following GJ? Could this be something that needed to happen to allow for the GJ group to purchase the Coyotes?

Timing is interesting, if nothing else.....

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The likely scenario at Westgate if Coyotes leave is a) significant closures of adjoining businesses (have already heard this directly from a couple of restaurant owners), loss of concert contract to a more viable venue (read more traffic), c) potential closure of arena and (Most Importantly) d) a decay of the adjoining area that would threaten future Super Bowls and National Championship games. The last point is of utmost importance to the city and has been quietly used to bring a lot of people into line.
Mordor on Earth if the Coyotes leave!

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:55 PM
  #713
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One last thing and Im sorry if I didnt answer every hater of American hockey or Arizona hockey but...

Hearing it's stupid to have a few people lose jobs / millionaires. Maybe the dumbest comment of all today. Sure 4 policemen and I believe a librarian will not be able to have FULL TIME work but how can you compare that to all the front office, arena workers, concession, cleaning crew, restaurant workers, etc etc ETC that will be out of work if they leave? How about all the sports shops that will drop that whole revenue line? Losing a major sport would cripple Glendale. They may sell to Peoria if that happens.

Also Glendale will get a % of naming rights and if Jamison and his group want to purchase the Arena they will recoup the $180 million spent to build the arena. #1 is to secure ownership. #2 is to recapture STH and sponsors lost to Moyes and his lunacy. #3 is to get Glendale turning a profit again.

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:57 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone care to speculate on the fact that two long-time owners of the Sharks just sold their interests today? Could they be following GJ? Could this be something that needed to happen to allow for the GJ group to purchase the Coyotes?

Timing is interesting, if nothing else.....
It's certainly possible, and perhaps he couldn't name them specifically without breaking some variety of rules, but why not say he was waiting for a couple of already-bound investors? SOMETHING would've been better than saying "I have investors, but I can't disclose anything about them." Also, if it is some violation of league by-laws to discuss business opportunities with people that are already part of an ownership group with another team, if there were ever a situation where Bettman et. al. would bend the rules, it'd be this one. It wouldn't surprise if those two were beside Jamison tomorrow afternoon in Glendale, but it may also just be two guys that decided 20+ years is enough time and cash out before Marleau and Thornton retire and make the franchise worth less.

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01-30-2013, 01:00 PM
  #715
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Mordor on Earth if the Coyotes leave!
Seriously CF, I don't know if you have been to Westgate, but if the Coyotes leave and unless they can turn the Job around somehow and book concerts regularly (which I highly doubt, but that's just my opinion), Westgate is in for a world of hurt. I don't think that is opinion. I think that is fact. I will become a wasteland, especially during week nights.

Right now Westgate is a three legged chair, even with an arena anchor tenant. Ellman never developed it as a true mixed use complex. There is very little office, and hardly any residential to support the retail. Even with the Coyotes, that development has major issues which I think leads to the opinion it will fail if the Coyotes leave because it is tettering on the brink already.

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01-30-2013, 01:01 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone care to speculate on the fact that two long-time owners of the Sharks just sold their interests today? Could they be following GJ? Could this be something that needed to happen to allow for the GJ group to purchase the Coyotes?

Timing is interesting, if nothing else.....
I tried to say but no one would listen that the hold up had to do with Jamison and his Shark ownership and getting it within the number needed I think 10% but it was holding up the paperwork. All should be final now. xoxoxoxo QC

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01-30-2013, 01:02 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by howlinhockey View Post
Also Glendale will get a % of naming rights and if Jamison and his group want to purchase the Arena they will recoup the $180 million spent to build the arena. #1 is to secure ownership. #2 is to recapture STH and sponsors lost to Moyes and his lunacy. #3 is to get Glendale turning a profit again.
We've been over how insane this idea is. Forego a regular $15 million annual income from the city to own the arena? Why would anyone do that unless they were absolutely sure they could do better, which isn't going to happen anytime soon, if at all.

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01-30-2013, 01:03 PM
  #718
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Seriously CF, I don't know if you have been to Westgate, but if the Coyotes leave and unless they can turn the Job around somehow and book concerts regularly (which I highly doubt, but that's just my opinion), Westgate is in for a world of hurt. I don't think that is opinion. I think that is fact. I will become a wasteland, especially during week nights.

Right now Westgate is a three legged chair, even with an arena anchor tenant. Ellman never developed it as a true mixed use complex. There is very little office, and hardly any residential to support the retail. Even with the Coyotes, that development has major issues which I think leads to the opinion it will fail if the Coyotes leave because it is tettering on the brink already.
AGREED! It will be like a crashing stock market to see who can leave first. The ONLY thing it has going would be Tanger outlets who is too big to fail.

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01-30-2013, 01:03 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone care to speculate on the fact that two long-time owners of the Sharks just sold their interests today? Could they be following GJ? Could this be something that needed to happen to allow for the GJ group to purchase the Coyotes?

Timing is interesting, if nothing else.....
Is there a source for this?

If it's true, it sounds very promising for Yotes fans, IMO

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01-30-2013, 01:05 PM
  #720
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Is there a source for this?

If it's true, it sounds very promising for Yotes fans, IMO
There's a thread in this forum titled "(Minor) Change in Sharks ownership." More details are therein.

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01-30-2013, 01:08 PM
  #721
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It's certainly possible, and perhaps he couldn't name them specifically without breaking some variety of rules, but why not say he was waiting for a couple of already-bound investors? SOMETHING would've been better than saying "I have investors, but I can't disclose anything about them." Also, if it is some violation of league by-laws to discuss business opportunities with people that are already part of an ownership group with another team, if there were ever a situation where Bettman et. al. would bend the rules, it'd be this one. It wouldn't surprise if those two were beside Jamison tomorrow afternoon in Glendale, but it may also just be two guys that decided 20+ years is enough time and cash out before Marleau and Thornton retire and make the franchise worth less.
I believe and DONT QUOTE me that Jamison was keeping everything close to his vest for various reasons.
Try and get NHL to lower price tag some, grab as many investors as possible without scaring any off, and also to protect the investors who sold shares of the Sharks in case they had doubts or something went awry. Lastly to not give any GWI or other Canadian funded lobby time to work their witchery. Yes you Darcy Olson you merc.

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01-30-2013, 01:08 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by howlinhockey View Post
One last thing and Im sorry if I didnt answer every hater of American hockey or Arizona hockey but...

Hearing it's stupid to have a few people lose jobs / millionaires. Maybe the dumbest comment of all today. Sure 4 policemen and I believe a librarian will not be able to have FULL TIME work but how can you compare that to all the front office, arena workers, concession, cleaning crew, restaurant workers, etc etc ETC that will be out of work if they leave? How about all the sports shops that will drop that whole revenue line? Losing a major sport would cripple Glendale. They may sell to Peoria if that happens.

Also Glendale will get a % of naming rights and if Jamison and his group want to purchase the Arena they will recoup the $180 million spent to build the arena. #1 is to secure ownership. #2 is to recapture STH and sponsors lost to Moyes and his lunacy. #3 is to get Glendale turning a profit again.

Glendale 2012-13 Budget:

Quote:
staffing has been reduced by 273 FTEs, an 18% reduction from the FY 2009 peak staffing level of 1,501 FTEs, to 1,228 FTEs.
Bet $25m/yr could've saved a few of those jobs. But who's counting.

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01-30-2013, 01:10 PM
  #723
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Is there a source for this?

If it's true, it sounds very promising for Yotes fans, IMO

San Jose Sharks announce ownership change
http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...nership-change
Posted: 01/30/2013 10:54:01 AM PST

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01-30-2013, 01:11 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
Anyone care to speculate on the fact that two long-time owners of the Sharks just sold their interests today? Could they be following GJ? Could this be something that needed to happen to allow for the GJ group to purchase the Coyotes?

Timing is interesting, if nothing else.....
Where are u seeing this good sir?

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Old
01-30-2013, 01:12 PM
  #725
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San Jose Sharks announce ownership change
http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/ci...nership-change
Posted: 01/30/2013 10:54:01 AM PST
Interesting timing, if nothing else.

(And I didn't see Mike Sunnucks name anywhere in that article!)_

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