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Bylsma/coaching discussion thread

View Poll Results: How long do you give Dan?
Fire him now 18 22.22%
15 games 33 40.74%
30 games 4 4.94%
Fire him if we fail in the play-offs 23 28.40%
Keep him till next year 3 3.70%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 12:49 PM
  #526
Terrapin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly
#Penguins second PP unit: Martin, Jeffrey on points with forwards Kennedy, Dupuis, Sutter.

Seth Rorabaugh ‏@emptynetters
During power play drills today, Crosby looked welded to the right half wall.

Joe Starkey ‏@JoeStarkey1
Pens practicing power play. Looks worse than last nite
Good God in Heaven.

Hey, what's the only thing worse looking that our 2nd PP? Our 1st PP! I'm beginning to think Bylsma is actively trying to get fired.

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01-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #527
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so, does anyone have any insight into how coaching changes are made? is Shero on the phone right now with the likes of Mike Keenan, Marc Crawford, Terry Murray, Jacques Lemaire, ect. asking what kind of system they'd impose if they had the reigns, it they'd have a vision for a PP with Malkin and Crosby, if they were willing to play young talent that warranted a shot, if they were capable of using timeouts and line-matching? it can't make sense that he only starts searching after the team completely collapses and he cans Bylsma, right?

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01-30-2013, 12:52 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Not sure if serious.

Malkin either wants to be in Pittsburgh or he doesn't. If you have to bend over backwards to make ANYONE "happy" through linemates in this situation, they don't really want to be there, and you're better off without them (I don't believe Malkin actually feels that way).

Second, Malkin has the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th best winger on the team. I guarantee you his line doesn't magically get fixed by moving this current incarnation of Kunitz onto the line.

Finally, let's assume that I'm wrong and you're right and you need to placate superstars. The message you're sending is that we'll sign you for 12 years, then once we have you tied down, we'll prioritize other people's happiness above yours?

Ya I do think u need to and should bend over backwards to make your superstars happy. Losing malkin would hurt this franchise in so many ways. Your also gonna be asking malkin to take a hometown discount to stay here we all know he gets the max if he becomes a ufa. Your last point about sid signed for 12 years sounds really bad but ya i think for this year u make sure malkin get the better of the wingers and pp position. Next year if malkin signs then u do whats best for the team.

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01-30-2013, 12:57 PM
  #529
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The 7 year argument is silly, because both Gogo and Whitney went the college route, and spent 3 years there. Of course it would take longer for their value as a pro to go up.

A guy like Morrow is a pro just a year after being drafted, and every one else (Despres, soon to be Mattaa and Pouliot) will be so two years after being drafted.

Also, prospects can be traded for a prospect of a similar ilk, but, with Bylsma at the helm it would be pointless, 'cause it's not like if we picked up a decent F prosect in a trade he'd be put in the right situation to succeed at the NHL level anyways.
It's not silly, because they got a bunch of time in the NHL before being moved.

With so many Dmen, it's impossible to give them all enough time to be worth what Gogo and Whits got. So you see Shero waiving guys and losing them for free.

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01-30-2013, 12:57 PM
  #530
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Wow. Like I said before the season started... you could tell the powerplay was going to be a straight up ****-show. I think now they're trying to find ways to up the comedic value and make it worse, if possible. Though you just know they'll either get a lucky one or pot one off some amazing individual effort off the rush next game on the powerplay and Disco will pat himself on the back and say "told ya it'd work!"

Maybe even worse than, well... the whole first unit (particularly putting Malkin on the point. LOL! We've seen how that works, before. It's especially awesome because he's said he doesn't like playing there, in the past. Well done!) is putting DJ on the point on the second unit. What?!? Dude was the only Penguin last night who looked like he had a clue what he was doing on the man advantage and it was from the half boards. So... move him to the point?

I really shouldn't even be searching for rational answers, any more. The coach has clearly been out of ideas for quite some time. And obviously the players are picking up on that, based on last night's effort/execution.

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01-30-2013, 12:58 PM
  #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
Ya I do think u need to and should bend over backwards to make your superstars happy. Losing malkin would hurt this franchise in so many ways. Your also gonna be asking malkin to take a hometown discount to stay here we all know he gets the max if he becomes a ufa. Your last point about sid signed for 12 years sounds really bad but ya i think for this year u make sure malkin get the better of the wingers and pp position. Next year if malkin signs then u do whats best for the team.
1) Malkin is signed for next year, so using your theory, the Pens could just make him extremely happy next year.

2) Winning is the best way to make Malkin - and everyone else - happy. You really think moving Kunitz to Malkin's line is going to change the outcome of last night's game, the Jets game, or the Leafs game?

3) I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with your line of thought. It makes no logical sense to me. You create balance, you put together the best lines with what you have, and you try to win. You don't give one player or the other all the skill.

edit: I'm starting to reply at a KIRK-like pace. I need help.

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01-30-2013, 12:58 PM
  #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
so, does anyone have any insight into how coaching changes are made? is Shero on the phone right now with the likes of Mike Keenan, Marc Crawford, Terry Murray, Jacques Lemaire, ect. asking what kind of system they'd impose if they had the reigns, it they'd have a vision for a PP with Malkin and Crosby, if they were willing to play young talent that warranted a shot, if they were capable of using timeouts and line-matching? it can't make sense that he only starts searching after the team completely collapses and he cans Bylsma, right?
Shero is still drinking away the heartbreak of being jilted by his draft baby, last year.

He's not doing anything except mixing another eye opener.

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01-30-2013, 01:01 PM
  #533
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Shero needs to be actively pursuing a new coach and a winger.

As much as I like Bylsma as a person, he is not a good coach. That's more evident each game. Last night the team flat out quit. He needs to go.

Shero needs to get someone in here to play w/ Sid asap. A good, scoring winger. Drop kunitz back to Geno's line, and you got two legitimate scoring lines again. Also, if the new coach chooses, you could actually have two viable PP lines.

We supposedly have a plethora of awesome young d'men in the system. We also have a 'superstar' goalie that I wouldn't lose sleep over if he were moved.

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01-30-2013, 01:02 PM
  #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
so, does anyone have any insight into how coaching changes are made? is Shero on the phone right now with the likes of Mike Keenan, Marc Crawford, Terry Murray, Jacques Lemaire, ect. asking what kind of system they'd impose if they had the reigns, it they'd have a vision for a PP with Malkin and Crosby, if they were willing to play young talent that warranted a shot, if they were capable of using timeouts and line-matching? it can't make sense that he only starts searching after the team completely collapses and he cans Bylsma, right?
I would hope he's not on the phone right now with any of those guys apart from Lemaire, who would probably just reiterate that he's happily retired.

The game has passed Keenan up, Crawford and Murray have never been good coaches. Crawford's obsession with Dan Cloutier was bizarre, to say the least, his analysis on TSN suggests he's not quite clear on what he's watching and Murray's teams have always demonstrated that they were less than the sum of their parts (dating all the way back to the Flyers' teams in the 90s who should have had more than one finals appearance).

Of the names that have been out there, the only one I like is Paul Maurice (Dave King's a smart hockey guy, but I'm not sure how up to date he is on current tactics in use in the NHL and their counters), but who the Hell knows the process of getting him out of Russia.

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01-30-2013, 01:10 PM
  #535
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Is Gordon Bombay available?

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01-30-2013, 01:12 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
I would hope he's not on the phone right now with any of those guys apart from Lemaire, who would probably just reiterate that he's happily retired.

The game has passed Keenan up, Crawford and Murray have never been good coaches. Crawford's obsession with Dan Cloutier was bizarre, to say the least, his analysis on TSN suggests he's not quite clear on what he's watching and Murray's teams have always demonstrated that they were less than the sum of their parts (dating all the way back to the Flyers' teams in the 90s who should have had more than one finals appearance).

Of the names that have been out there, the only one I like is Paul Maurice (Dave King's a smart hockey guy, but I'm not sure how up to date he is on current tactics in use in the NHL and their counters), but who the Hell knows the process of getting him out of Russia.
fair enough, those were just high profile coaches who were out of a job, who came to my mind. Of course, i think most are on the Maurice/King bandwagon thanks to indoctrination by KIRK. point being, i sure as hell hope that Shero is conducting his coaching search right now (even if he believes that Bylsma will turn it around). if a month from now, things haven't changed and only then does Shero realize he needs to start making some calls, he should start packing up his office as well.

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01-30-2013, 01:16 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Shelly Anderson ‏@pgshelly

Bylsma pretty well shoots down notion of splitting Crosby, Malkin onto separate power-play units. #Penguins
****ing nonsense...

You want to know what pisses me off the most from a pure coaching standpoint? It's that.

God ****ing dammit.

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01-30-2013, 01:21 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
1) Malkin is signed for next year, so using your theory, the Pens could just make him extremely happy next year.

2) Winning is the best way to make Malkin - and everyone else - happy. You really think moving Kunitz to Malkin's line is going to change the outcome of last night's game, the Jets game, or the Leafs game?

3) I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with your line of thought. It makes no logical sense to me. You create balance, you put together the best lines with what you have, and you try to win. You don't give one player or the other all the skill.

edit: I'm starting to reply at a KIRK-like pace. I need help.
1) Something is gonna happen with malkin this upcoming summer just like staal hes not gonna gonna end up a ufa with the pens. If malkin doesent sign with us this summer its obvious he dont want to be here just like staal so this year might not technically be his last year but it kinda is.


2) I know kunitz has played terrible this year but i dunno how u can say if he was back with geno it def wouldnt work. I do think it could of made a difference in the jets game.


3) I think if there able to sign gino this summer that means 8 years of Stanley cup contenders 8 years of sellouts 8 years of high tv ratings and 8 years of being one of the marquee teams in the league. As a owner of a team or a Gm of a team I think u do everything u need to make that happen. And as a fan of the team I hope they do everything to make sure that happens.

I understand your point but i guess we will just agree to disagree.

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01-30-2013, 01:22 PM
  #539
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****ing nonsense...

You want to know what pisses me off the most from a pure coaching standpoint? It's that.

God ****ing dammit.
I mean, 9 times out of 10 I think you would want two superstars on a unit together, but their preferred area of residence on the PP just overlap too much. I think this is where you need a coach with enough strength to stand up to them and say 'check your egos, it's not about one of you being better than the other, it's about winning.'

I think you can find enough talent with Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, Kennedy, and Sutter to run 2 lines. It does mean having 2 Dmen on the points, but such is life. (Niskanen, Letang, Despres are fine there, and Martin is at least a calming presence back there)

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01-30-2013, 01:28 PM
  #540
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I mean, 9 times out of 10 I think you would want two superstars on a unit together, but their preferred area of residence on the PP just overlap too much. I think this is where you need a coach with enough strength to stand up to them and say 'check your egos, it's not about one of you being better than the other, it's about winning.'

I think you can find enough talent with Crosby, Malkin, Neal, Kunitz, Kennedy, and Sutter to run 2 lines. It does mean having 2 Dmen on the points, but such is life. (Niskanen, Letang, Despres are fine there, and Martin is at least a calming presence back there)
He tried it for game 2 against the Flyers, and it ****ing worked. They scored a couple of PP goals (mind you they gave up a couple shorties but that had nothing to do with Crosby not being on the unit) and the Pittsburgh media lost it's mind.

I still remember the next day: Rossi, Dejan, coming on Madden's show and talking about how insane it was even though the team scored 2 or 3 ****ing goals on the PP. "You have to have Crosby and Malkin together, it's insanity" and that was the end of that.

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01-30-2013, 01:32 PM
  #541
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Bring in Ron Francis as General Manager, and Ulf Samuelsson as head coach.

That would be kinda cool.

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01-30-2013, 01:37 PM
  #542
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Bring in Ron Francis as General Manager, and Ulf Samuelsson as head coach.

That would be kinda cool.

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01-30-2013, 01:48 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton View Post
fair enough, those were just high profile coaches who were out of a job, who came to my mind. Of course, i think most are on the Maurice/King bandwagon thanks to indoctrination by KIRK. point being, i sure as hell hope that Shero is conducting his coaching search right now (even if he believes that Bylsma will turn it around). if a month from now, things haven't changed and only then does Shero realize he needs to start making some calls, he should start packing up his office as well.
Well, if Kirk's the one throwing Maurice out there (this DB coach stuff moves fast as **** now that it seems to be coming to a head and it's tough to remember who said what), that's pretty shrewd of him, imo. He hasn't had a ton of success, either, but I'd attribute that to lack of viable rosters to work with. His team's are usually more than the sum of their parts. The parts have just tended to be overwhelmingly underwhelming.

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01-30-2013, 01:49 PM
  #544
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Can we hire him?

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01-30-2013, 01:53 PM
  #545
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I wonder how malkin feels about all this they already took his winger off him this year and now there moving him to a spot on the pp where i believe hes said in the past he dont like to play. And this summer were also gonna ask him to less then max and take a hometown discount.
Malkin is playing with the best winger on the team, and one of the best finishers in the league.

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01-30-2013, 02:01 PM
  #546
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Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic
If you have seven months to design a power play w/ Crosby, Malkin and Neal, it really ought to last longer than seven games. #Pens #TribHKY

I'm really starting to not like Dejan for all of his ****** articles he has been writing lately, but this is just the plain honest to God truth.

Maybe since all he wants to be nowadays is a **** stirrer, then perhaps he can be the one guy in the media to call out Bylsma on his idiotic coaching.

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01-30-2013, 02:05 PM
  #547
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Malkin is playing with the best winger on the team, and one of the best finishers in the league.
And the team has one of the best records in the league the past five years. As well as a couple of finals appreances and one cup win. The core of the team is in its mid 20's. No doubt this team will perenially put up 100 plus point seasons. Where is this hypothetical better situation for him?

That said, and like I said, I worry about this style of play as it translates to the playoffs.

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01-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by MrBurgundy View Post
Dejan Kovacevic ‏@Dejan_Kovacevic
If you have seven months to design a power play w/ Crosby, Malkin and Neal, it really ought to last longer than seven games. #Pens #TribHKY

I'm really starting to not like Dejan for all of his ****** articles he has been writing lately, but this is just the plain honest to God truth.

Maybe since all he wants to be nowadays is a **** stirrer, then perhaps he can be the one guy in the media to call out Bylsma on his idiotic coaching.
I would have liked it better if he phrased it as, "you had 7 months to design this, and this is what you put together?"

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01-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #549
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And the team has one of the best records in the league the past five years. As well as a couple of finals appreances and one cup win. The core of the team is in its mid 20's. No doubt this team will perenially put up 100 plus point seasons. Where is this hypothetical better situation for him?

That said, and like I said, I worry about this style of play as it translates to the playoffs.
I think we've seen over the past few years that it doesn't translate to the playoffs.

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01-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #550
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That was the other thing that has been bugging me so much.

Disco practically bragged that he's had all of this time to work on so many different things and how well prepared he and his staff were going to be in all facets of the game. Even dropped a little "lol" in there about how maybe the lockout wasn't such a bad thing in some ways because it gave he and his BFF staff extra time to come up with some new wrinkles and review extra tape.

Lovin' all that, so far. I guess that's what Neal (now Malkin) at the point as a "rover" (lol) is. A clever wrinkle.

I mean... let's be honest. He's either grossly incompetent or kind of a liar. Either way it's obvious that he's barely scratched the surface on coming up with anything real and effective to counter the creeping problems we've all seen cropping up the last few years. And it sort of just looks like, at the very last second, he just threw some crap at the wall and hoped it looked good enough to stick. Or again, more likely, he's just incompetent. A nice guy with lots of good qualities, sure... but incompetent.

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