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Canucks d from a decade ago vs today's d

View Poll Results: Which d do you prefer?
2013 Edler Garrison Hamhuis Bieksa Ballard Tanev 63 70.00%
2003 Malik Jovo Sopel Ohlund Allen Salo 27 30.00%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:30 AM
  #51
Passthedonuts
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I would take today's group in a heartbeat. Deeper and more well rounded.

Interesting that of the '03 group, none of the players have officially retired from pro hockey - although Ohlund is likely done. Sopel and Malik are still playing in Europe.

Was a pretty young group back then.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:29 AM
  #52
billvanseattle
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
That did make me feel old and I've only been watching hockey since '03.
i am old .... I have been watching since about 63.

and didn't vote ... liked both sets ....

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:49 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Vancouver_2010 View Post
I think the 03 squad is better, only if they have better goal tending.
Yea, makes you wonder how those early 2000 teams would of faired if they had similar goaltending of today's Canucks teams. Cloutier was bad in the playoffs. But teams like Colorado and Detroit were too stacked to be beaten even with better goaltending for most of those years.

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01-30-2013, 02:10 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Ohlund and Jovanovski were better than anyone on our current blueline.
Yeah, I'd question anyone who feels like Edler/Hamhuis are bigger "gamebreakers" than Ohlund/Jovanovski. Did he even watch them? Jovanovski was the definition of a gamebreaker (and in a lot of ways I thought he was overrated as a player).

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01-30-2013, 02:15 PM
  #55
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I am just pleased we let go of Sopel and Lucas Krajicek.

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01-30-2013, 02:16 PM
  #56
Barney Gumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Ohlund and Jovanovski were better than anyone on our current blueline.
True, problem was the drop-off in talent after that. This current D set is more balanced and deeper (Ballard-Tanev is miles ahead of any pairing not with Ohlund or Jovo on it). And with Jovo missing something like at least 15 games a season - that's a noticeable weakness.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:29 PM
  #57
BrockH
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Not that stats tell the tale by any stretch, but I think there is a temptation here to remember everyone at their best. FYI:
# Player Name Birthdate Age Pos. GP G A Pts PIM +/-
55 Ed Jovanovski 1976-06-26 26 D 67 6 40 46 113 19
3 Brent Sopel 1977-01-07 25 D 81 7 30 37 23 -15
6 Sami Salo 1974-09-02 27 D 79 9 21 30 10 9
2 Mattias Ohlund 1976-09-09 25 D 59 2 27 29 42
8 Marek Malik From Carolina 1975-06-24 27 D 69 7 11 18 52 23
5 Bryan Allen 1980-08-21 22 D 48 5 3 8 73

I was actually surprised when I looked at ages and those guys from 10 years ago. They really were all pretty close to their primes. I never feel that comfortable making ascertions about player performance - I don't trust my memory to be unbiased, but if forced, here's how I'd go:
Edler > Jovo. Jovo was the better gamebreaker, but I feel like Edler's game is more well rounded (i.e. I trust him more in our end, and I vaguely recall Jovo putting himself out of position going for big hits or something of that ilk).
Ohlund > Hamhuis. Both rocks, but Ohlund gets the edge.
Bieksa >> Sopel. Sopel was -15. No other player was below -2, and no d-man was a minus. Bieksa's inconsistencies aren't nearly as prevalent these days, and I think Sopel's being remembered with rose coloured glasses (one post called him a 'stud').
Salo > Garrison. Both with booming shots, but Salo blows him away (unless you start considering durability) based on my early impressions of Garrison. Then again, I think my impression of Salo may be skewed because he became more well-rounded in his later years. Anyone care to comment?
Tanev >> Allen. Tough to call this early, and quite different players, but I like Tanev's game a lot more. I don't recall being particularly excited about Allen.
Malik > Ballard. These 2 were leftovers...really nothing in common (Ballard seems more like Jovo for style...if he rushed like he could...but that'd be a Jovo >>>> Ballard). Malik was stable though, and Ballard's not. Ballard has way more potential, but it's not coming out.


Last edited by BrockH: 01-30-2013 at 02:39 PM.
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Old
01-30-2013, 02:33 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
Yeah, I'd question anyone who feels like Edler/Hamhuis are bigger "gamebreakers" than Ohlund/Jovanovski. Did he even watch them? Jovanovski was the definition of a gamebreaker (and in a lot of ways I thought he was overrated as a player).
The problem with Jovanovski was that half the time he would literally break your game.

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01-30-2013, 03:07 PM
  #59
Barney Gumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW View Post
The problem with Jovanovski was that half the time he would literally break your game.
Dangerous at both ends of the ice - to coin a phrase used by Burke (not in the description of Jovo but it fits...)

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01-30-2013, 06:15 PM
  #60
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Well what are our comparables?

Bieksa-Jovo
Edler-Ohlund
Salo-Garrison
...
Allen-Hamhuis? The other ones don't really work at all.

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01-30-2013, 06:22 PM
  #61
Reverend Mayhem
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Originally Posted by billvanseattle View Post
i am old .... I have been watching since about 63.

and didn't vote ... liked both sets ....
Tell me about George Armstrong...

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:52 PM
  #62
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The fragility of that D corps made it not as great as it looked on paper. Ohlund eye injury, Salo always injured, and the steady downgrade of Jovo togetehr really degrades that group.

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01-30-2013, 08:34 PM
  #63
Shareefruck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MW View Post
The problem with Jovanovski was that half the time he would literally break your game.
But that's what I mean. You don't use the term "gamebreaker" to mean complete, consistent overall well-rounded player. Jovo was a pure game-breaker despite not being much more than that. The point is that he could completely take over and dominate a game (as much as any defenseman can, really) in his prime when he was on.

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01-30-2013, 08:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
But that's what I mean. You don't use the term "gamebreaker" to mean complete, consistent overall well-rounded player. Jovo was a pure game-breaker despite not being much more than that. The point is that he could completely take over and dominate a game (as much as any defenseman can, really) in his prime when he was on.
Maybe in his first few years here. By his last season or two he was more invisible than anything. Every once in a while he would show some intensity but those moments were few and far between.

From his epic stanley cup run with the Panthers I always had this idea of Jovo of being this huge overpowering massive defenseman. On that 03 Canucks roster he was the smallest guy. O perceptions...

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01-31-2013, 12:14 AM
  #65
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Maybe in his first few years here. By his last season or two he was more invisible than anything. Every once in a while he would show some intensity but those moments were few and far between.

From his epic stanley cup run with the Panthers I always had this idea of Jovo of being this huge overpowering massive defenseman. On that 03 Canucks roster he was the smallest guy. O perceptions...
10 years ago is when he was still good.

Should be common sense that we're comparing the d-core to that one when it was in its prime rather than when they became over the hill.

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01-31-2013, 12:25 AM
  #66
vadim sharifijanov
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Its funny how people view Jovo's time here, i thought the guy was outstanding while here. While he made alot of mistakes (bieksa like), he would contribute enough to overshadow that (also like bieksa)

He came up big in big moments.

As soon as he left, people gave him no credit for being as good as he was here.

Sopel was a joke, though he had one solid year! I think it was the year before he gained all that muscle?
pretty sure the year he gained all that muscle was also the year he hurt his back picking up a cracker.


but yeah, this group is better.

in fact if i compare the entire 2003 to the equivalent player in today's lineup the only guys i'd add to our current group are ohlund and ruutu. every other player is an upgrade on his 2003 predecessor.

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:21 AM
  #67
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lol Sopel.... one good year and then he sucked... Just like Mason Raymond...

I started watching around 02..... when I was like 8 or something so yeah.. I remember the former Canucks who still play right now

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01-31-2013, 07:16 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
I was actually surprised when I looked at ages and those guys from 10 years ago. They really were all pretty close to their primes. I never feel that comfortable making ascertions about player performance - I don't trust my memory to be unbiased, but if forced, here's how I'd go:
Edler > Jovo. Jovo was the better gamebreaker, but I feel like Edler's game is more well rounded (i.e. I trust him more in our end, and I vaguely recall Jovo putting himself out of position going for big hits or something of that ilk).
Ohlund > Hamhuis. Both rocks, but Ohlund gets the edge.
Bieksa >> Sopel. Sopel was -15. No other player was below -2, and no d-man was a minus. Bieksa's inconsistencies aren't nearly as prevalent these days, and I think Sopel's being remembered with rose coloured glasses (one post called him a 'stud').
Salo > Garrison. Both with booming shots, but Salo blows him away (unless you start considering durability) based on my early impressions of Garrison. Then again, I think my impression of Salo may be skewed because he became more well-rounded in his later years. Anyone care to comment?
Tanev >> Allen. Tough to call this early, and quite different players, but I like Tanev's game a lot more. I don't recall being particularly excited about Allen.
Malik > Ballard. These 2 were leftovers...really nothing in common (Ballard seems more like Jovo for style...if he rushed like he could...but that'd be a Jovo >>>> Ballard). Malik was stable though, and Ballard's not. Ballard has way more potential, but it's not coming out.
Jovo and Bieksa are comparable players, and have a lot of similarities in their games. Both are/were swashbuckling offensive defensemen who put up 40+ point seasons roaming the ice, had fearsome reputations as middleweight fighters, and suffered from routine defensive lapses. Jovo was the better hitter...Bieksa salts his resume with a magical playoff run in which he was excellent. These two are a wash.

Edler and Ohlund are comparable. Ohlund often gets misremembered around these parts as a defensive titan, when in fact he often got exposed when miscast as a shut down defender, but he was still more stalwart in that respect than Edler...who is often suspect defensively. Edler is more creative and has a higher offensive ceiling than Ohlund, who was a lot more meat n' potatoes on the offensive side of things. Another wash.

Too early to really compare Garrison to anyone. Salo is the obvious fit due to the shot. Young Salo was a middle-bottom pairing defenseman who played acceptable hockey and whose biggest selling point was the cannon. He didn't turn into "The Canucks #1 D if he could ever stay healthy" until his veteran years.

Hamhuis and Malik are...somewhat comparable, as both are/were defensive specialists. Hamhuis is miles better than Malik in every respect but size, though. More consistent, better skater, better offensively, and even better defensively. Malik had sick shootout moves, however.

Tanev and Allen are somewhat comparable, as both are/were young defensemen just easing into the job. Tanev has shown better than Allen in almost every respect but size, although both are/were non-factors offensively. Allen turned into a serviceable NHL journeyman, but never really fulfilled his 1st round pick promise. Tanev could become another Willie Mitchell if he continues to improve.

Ballard and Sopel aren't really comparable but they're the only ones left. Ballard is the better skater, Sopel had the better shot. Neither is/was lights out defensively. Ballard has at points in his career shown MUCH more upside than Sopel ever did, but he's also been plagued by inconsistency.

So...

Bieksa = Jovanovski
Edler = Ohlund
Garrison ? Salo
Hamhuis >>> Malik
Tanev > Allen
Ballard >= Sopel

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02-01-2013, 09:25 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloatedGuppy View Post
Jovo and Bieksa are comparable players, and have a lot of similarities in their games. Both are/were swashbuckling offensive defensemen who put up 40+ point seasons roaming the ice, had fearsome reputations as middleweight fighters, and suffered from routine defensive lapses. Jovo was the better hitter...Bieksa salts his resume with a magical playoff run in which he was excellent. These two are a wash.

Edler and Ohlund are comparable. Ohlund often gets misremembered around these parts as a defensive titan, when in fact he often got exposed when miscast as a shut down defender, but he was still more stalwart in that respect than Edler...who is often suspect defensively. Edler is more creative and has a higher offensive ceiling than Ohlund, who was a lot more meat n' potatoes on the offensive side of things. Another wash.

Too early to really compare Garrison to anyone. Salo is the obvious fit due to the shot. Young Salo was a middle-bottom pairing defenseman who played acceptable hockey and whose biggest selling point was the cannon. He didn't turn into "The Canucks #1 D if he could ever stay healthy" until his veteran years.

Hamhuis and Malik are...somewhat comparable, as both are/were defensive specialists. Hamhuis is miles better than Malik in every respect but size, though. More consistent, better skater, better offensively, and even better defensively. Malik had sick shootout moves, however.

Tanev and Allen are somewhat comparable, as both are/were young defensemen just easing into the job. Tanev has shown better than Allen in almost every respect but size, although both are/were non-factors offensively. Allen turned into a serviceable NHL journeyman, but never really fulfilled his 1st round pick promise. Tanev could become another Willie Mitchell if he continues to improve.

Ballard and Sopel aren't really comparable but they're the only ones left. Ballard is the better skater, Sopel had the better shot. Neither is/was lights out defensively. Ballard has at points in his career shown MUCH more upside than Sopel ever did, but he's also been plagued by inconsistency.

So...

Bieksa = Jovanovski
Edler = Ohlund
Garrison ? Salo
Hamhuis >>> Malik
Tanev > Allen
Ballard >= Sopel
Bieksa WISHES he was Jovanovski.

Hamhuis < Ohlund
Edler >= Jovanovski
Garrison < Salo
Bieksa >>>> Sopel
Tanev >>>> Malik
Ballard >>>> Allen/Baron

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