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Old
01-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #501
Halpysback
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Ovi Ribeiro Brouwer is fine. Brouwer is already a go to faceoff guy. Keep Beagle at C on a checking (ideally 4th though) line.

Beyond Ovechkin's adrenaline, what does he really have? Or ever had? Not all that much.

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01-30-2013, 02:19 PM
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Ovi Ribeiro Brouwer is fine. Brouwer is already a go to faceoff guy. Keep Beagle at C on a checking (ideally 4th though) line.

Beyond Ovechkin's adrenaline, what does he really have? Or ever had? Not all that much.
Ever? One of the best shots in NHL history, elite passing/playmaking, the highest compete level in the league, the best hitting game of any top 6 forward. A guy who won 3 straight Pearsons and almost 3 straight Harts.

Yeah, it can't be overstated.

A 27 year old doesnt lose it like this. If anything he should be better. At very least more well rounded.

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01-30-2013, 02:19 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Ovi Ribeiro Brouwer is fine. Brouwer is already a go to faceoff guy. Keep Beagle at C on a checking (ideally 4th though) line.

Beyond Ovechkin's adrenaline, what does he really have? Or ever had? Not all that much.
Wow I didn't realize adrenaline alone can with you MVPs, scoring titles and otherwise dominating the best league in the world for a stretch of years.

Lets not lay it on thick and engage in revisionist history.

He was (and still can be) a GREAT player

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01-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #504
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The guy had the ability to score from anywhere. He had the ability to make some mind boggling passes. He had the physicality no other superstar in the league had. He dominated the league for a few years. The guy was special.

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01-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #505
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Ovi's suffering from PNS (Pouting No Sasha)!

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01-30-2013, 02:32 PM
  #506
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Meh.

I think trading him sets the franchise back more than it moves it forward, regardless of the return. If he sucks as much as people seem to portray now and wont regain form, why does anyone think the return will be worth it.

He'll work out his **** and get back to a top player in the NHL. I truly believe that he will. Wishful thinking on my part? Maybe. But the effects of trading him are so not worth it.
What about the effects of keeping him? He has been trending downwards for several seasons now. He got his payday. I am having a difficult time seeing him find the motivation to start trending upwards.

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01-30-2013, 02:46 PM
  #507
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Ovi's suffering from PNS (Pouting No Sasha)!
Retroactive to 2 years ago when it was first disclosed the Caps were testing the Semin trade waters?

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01-30-2013, 02:49 PM
  #508
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Retroactive to 2 years ago when it was first disclosed the Caps were testing the Semin trade waters?
New York Post would have a field day with this headline, "Ovechkin, No Semin, firing blanks!"

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01-30-2013, 03:01 PM
  #509
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He'll work out his **** and get back to a top player in the NHL. I truly believe that he will. Wishful thinking on my part? Maybe. But the effects of trading him are so not worth it.
The problem is how long that might take and whether a lingering distraction undermines the legitimacy of his captaincy. I think it's going to be a while myself and even then it's a matter of both him and the team changing the way they attack in the offensive zone. It's a long time coming and something they don't really have the time or the overall talent to implement this season.

First things first is putting him with linemates that begin to have a modicum of vision in the offensive zone. From there they need to begin to play (and prepare) with considerably more pace.

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01-30-2013, 03:16 PM
  #510
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I agree that it's going to be a while. It's not worth the wait and getting rid of that contract while a legitimate return can still be secured is important, in my opinion. Txpd and I thought a trade should be explored last year, and I wondered what would happen if the mess continued into this year. Here we are, only a few games into it, and a good portion of the board is talking about a trade. I'll ask the same question: what's it going to look like in another year? I wish he could turn it around, but I don't think he even close to has it in him. That leaves outside influences to bring him out of it...so either Oates can or he's going to stay stuck. I don't have my hopes up.

Rick Nash sucks, is on just as bad a contract (arguably worse), and was traded by the worst trading GM in the league for a decent return. Trade Ovechkin for a deal two or three times as good, give Backstrom the captaincy, and build a team that doesn't have to work around Ovechkin.

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01-30-2013, 03:46 PM
  #511
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I highly doubt we see Ovechkin traded. That would be an admission on the part of the current GMGM that he made a mistake in assessing Ovechkin. From Ted's standpoint it would be a hit in both the public relations and teams marketing departments. Ovie puts fannies in the seats at Verizon. I don't know where his jersey ranks now as far as popularity, but it probably is still in the top 10 if not top 5. Ted's a businessman first and always will be.

The one way out of this for the Caps is that Ovie pulls a Kuznetsov and opts to remain in Russia with his new bride. I know there's ramifications contractually for that between the NHL and the KHL, but if Ovie continues to perform like he has these first few games, would the Caps be upset in releasing him from his contract. The Caps orgnization saves face and money. It was his decision, he was unhappy and homesick.

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01-30-2013, 03:48 PM
  #512
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For all those suggesting trades, can you put together a realistic proposal that both teams might possibly agree on? What team would be willing to make the Caps an offer that they'd seriously consider? They've had a chance to see the exact same version of Ovechkin we've been seeing the last 2+ years.

Let's hear a couple proposals....

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01-30-2013, 03:49 PM
  #513
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Ever? One of the best shots in NHL history, elite passing/playmaking, the highest compete level in the league, the best hitting game of any top 6 forward. A guy who won 3 straight Pearsons and almost 3 straight Harts.

Yeah, it can't be overstated.

A 27 year old doesnt lose it like this. If anything he should be better. At very least more well rounded.
Yeah, he had an elite shot but not the best pure wrister or slapper out there. I think he still does if his head is in it. If you look at most of his goals they were flashy one-timers or flashy shots between the legs/power moves. Enthusiasm plays a role in getting that kind of shot off. At the ASG his shot was nothing special when timed. He's a heat of the moment player. His willingness to hit, compete level, etc was a product of him being pumped. He's a 210 pound player sizewise who managed to play at 225-235 pounds and still have elite speed. That's all enthusiasm.

Find me any memorable plays of his from early on where he didn't play like his ass was on fire. That's what I'm talking about. Other players have stuff to fall back on if they're not going 100%. Kane has been coasting for 3 years now yet he's still putting up numbers and whatnot since his skillset lets him. Ovechkin's entire game fits together as a result of him saying "here watch this" and going 110%. Not as a result of effort but as a result of being in the zone.

Get him buzzed before a game to the point of a Ballmer peak and you'll see him throwing down hat tricks left and right.

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01-30-2013, 04:01 PM
  #514
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Wow I didn't realize adrenaline alone can with you MVPs, scoring titles and otherwise dominating the best league in the world for a stretch of years.

Lets not lay it on thick and engage in revisionist history.

He was (and still can be) a GREAT player
I mean in the sense that it ties the rest of his game together. He has good playmaking skills, great shot, but when you break his game down it comes down 100% to whether he can get going or not. It ties everything together moreso for him than any other player in the league.

Things he did that go him MVPdom - (1) rush down the wing, power move/shot between the legs. Everyone sees it coming, just like anyone could see someone on PCP coming at them. Doesn't help in the least. (2) sick onetimers on the PP. Again, he pretty much would lay his whole body into it. It was basically a showoffy move that he made work (3) Hitting/physically dominating people. You lose your drive, 1 and 3 recede a lot, (2) recedes slightly.

He can still be a great player (in fact he is in the playoffs) but he needs to get it back. Dropping the pressure on him by putting together a more complete roster is probably the easiest path in the right direction. He'd be 2PPG if he was on San Jose's roster right now.

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01-30-2013, 04:06 PM
  #515
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I wonder how long it would take for people to turn on Backstrom once Ovechkin is traded and he's cast into the light and it turns out he's not particularly better than Ovechkin. He hasn't been much better recently yet no one feels like calling him on it since he's the sexy cerebral swedish playmaker who can do no wrong.

I remember all this nonsense with Semin. Said it was BS then, no one cared. And here we are.

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01-30-2013, 04:28 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
I wonder how long it would take for people to turn on Backstrom once Ovechkin is traded and he's cast into the light and it turns out he's not particularly better than Ovechkin. He hasn't been much better recently yet no one feels like calling him on it since he's the sexy cerebral swedish playmaker who can do no wrong.

I remember all this nonsense with Semin. Said it was BS then, no one cared. And here we are.
Backstrom actually looked really good last year. Other than the odd game here or there, Ovechkin hasn't really looked like himself since Vancouver.

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01-30-2013, 04:31 PM
  #517
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Trade Ovechkin for a deal two or three times as good, give Backstrom the captaincy, and build a team that doesn't have to work around Ovechkin.
Part of the problem is there really isn't a clear alternate captain in place. I would have thought that Backstrom could maybe be that guy but he's not without his flaws either. Both need to keep their ****ing feet moving. There isn't a player on this team whose habits are impeccable that also has a skill set you'd want players to strive to emulate. What a mess.

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01-30-2013, 04:43 PM
  #518
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Half season rental to help rekindle Ovechkin's fire?


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01-30-2013, 04:59 PM
  #519
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Half season rental to help rekindle Ovechkin's fire
Ive been begging for that guy for years now. Might be too late.

Anyone on that RW with some spunk will do.

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01-30-2013, 05:12 PM
  #520
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Part of the problem is there really isn't a clear alternate captain in place. I would have thought that Backstrom could maybe be that guy but he's not without his flaws either. Both need to keep their ****ing feet moving. There isn't a player on this team whose habits are impeccable that also has a skill set you'd want players to strive to emulate. What a mess.
Backstrom is coachable though. His habits can actually improve. Whether Oates can be trusted to instill better habits in some of the players who need them is basically unknowable at this point.

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01-30-2013, 05:19 PM
  #521
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If Bruce Laich is planning on skating with the team tomorrow don't the Caps have to make a roster move?

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01-30-2013, 05:25 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
For all those suggesting trades, can you put together a realistic proposal that both teams might possibly agree on? What team would be willing to make the Caps an offer that they'd seriously consider? They've had a chance to see the exact same version of Ovechkin we've been seeing the last 2+ years.

Let's hear a couple proposals....
Only chance the Caps have (if you're thinking a now-ish trade) is if a dumb GM is willing to pay way more than he should for the name alone. Someone in the Feaster vein, although not looking at Calgary specifically.

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01-30-2013, 05:34 PM
  #523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Ive been begging for that guy for years now. Might be too late.

Anyone on that RW with some spunk will do.
As have I.
I'd love to see him lined up on the RW with Ovie and Backstrom if he wouldn't light Ovechkin's fire again not so sure anyone short of Feds could

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01-30-2013, 05:49 PM
  #524
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Only chance the Caps have (if you're thinking a now-ish trade) is if a dumb GM is willing to pay way more than he should for the name alone. Someone in the Feaster vein, although not looking at Calgary specifically.
There are a lot of owners who, from a business standpoint, would push for that trade. He will bring people to the seats, slump or not. Secondly, I have no doubt that there are GMs and coaches who believe they can bring out the old OV with the right system and right complementary pieces. We could get a hell of a lot in return for OV.

That said, as lousy as he has been, I want to give Oates more time. Teams have started badly and gone on to do well, and teams have started on fire while struggling the rest of the way (we all know a team like that).

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01-30-2013, 06:35 PM
  #525
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Meh.

I think trading him sets the franchise back more than it moves it forward, regardless of the return. If he sucks as much as people seem to portray now and wont regain form, why does anyone think the return will be worth it.

He'll work out his **** and get back to a top player in the NHL. I truly believe that he will. Wishful thinking on my part? Maybe. But the effects of trading him are so not worth it.
He doesn't totally suck... Halpysback makes an excellent point: AO has a limited skillset, and it's ludicrous to expect him to put up top numbers year after year.

But he's still capable of 20 or more goals a year, for quite some time.

We've gotta adjust our expectations down a bit.

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