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Phoenix LXIX: Thread of LXIX

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01-30-2013, 02:05 PM
  #751
goyotes
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
Actually, I have. I'll probably be there again in March when I go to Scottsdale to watch a few Giants game. I generally try to grab a Coyotes game on that annual trip.

For the Mordor on Earth angle, the numbers simply don't support it at all: Colston Post

I understand that "Westgate will fail without the Coytoes" is the easiest rhetoric to generate in this saga but there's really no substantial evidence to support it. Conversely, there's a mountain of evidence to show that the JIG lease is about the worst fiscal decision the city can make.

Also, the idea that a Super Bowl Host Committee bid is contingent upon the arena status is just profoundly ignorant. It shows absolutely zero comprehension for how Super Bowl bids are made and awarded. But I like hearing how it's "been quietly used to bring a lot of people into line."
Thanks CF. I know you are aware of the situation down here and have actually been in the area. I'm sure Westgate will find tenants to replace the ones that will walk or go out of business. But...how many tattoos do you really need and how many watches does someone have to pawn. I guess we will see if Westgate becomes another Christown mall.

Thanks for the insight on the former Shark owners. Doesn't sound related to any GJ group, but I thought the timing was interesting.

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01-30-2013, 02:10 PM
  #752
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I thought Westgate was going to be just fine with the new anchor tenants? Tangiers outlet? Or something like that. I thought they were going to draw more people to the area than the hockey team ever could.

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01-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #753
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I'm sure this was posted somewhere in the off topic nonsense in teh past number of pages of this thread. But can anyone comment on the reliability of the following:

Roc from Roc&Manuch‏@rocandmanuch
Per GJ will come on our show after announcement. He is not doing any interviews until that point. Very busy! Sounds great! #phoenixcoyotes


I know they are local Coyotes boosters but are they the type of just spew nonsense (I remember an Atlanta reporter making stuff up about someoen who was going to buy and save the Thrashers).

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01-30-2013, 02:14 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Truth be told, if you are ever around Winnipeg I will gladly take you to a game and buy you a cold beer. You are a classy guy.

With that said, best of luck to you and the rest of the sensible fans over the next 48 hours.
x2 goyotes


(well, when I'm not in Calgary that is...unless you come to both Calgary and Winnipeg when i'm in either city and you'll get beer and a game BOTH times. Might be a weeeee bit [a lot] harder to get in the MTS Centre though.)


seriously though, best of luck. I'm with Whileee on this...hope its all works out for you guys. As much as I want to see the Nords return (my original #1 team when I moved to Canada), I know all too well the feeling of a team relocating. It sucks.


Last edited by roccerfeller: 01-30-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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Old
01-30-2013, 02:17 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm sure this was posted somewhere in the off topic nonsense in teh past number of pages of this thread. But can anyone comment on the reliability of the following:

Roc from Roc&Manuch‏@rocandmanuch
Per GJ will come on our show after announcement. He is not doing any interviews until that point. Very busy! Sounds great! #phoenixcoyotes


I know they are local Coyotes boosters but are they the type of just spew nonsense (I remember an Atlanta reporter making stuff up about someoen who was going to buy and save the Thrashers).
I think that ended up being fake and/or a troll involved. Think I saw that around page 19 to 22.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #756
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whoa, WSJ has an interview with Doug Wilson today. Maybe it's related!!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...833659128.html

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01-30-2013, 02:27 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm sure this was posted somewhere in the off topic nonsense in teh past number of pages of this thread. But can anyone comment on the reliability of the following:

Roc from Roc&Manuch‏@rocandmanuch
Per GJ will come on our show after announcement. He is not doing any interviews until that point. Very busy! Sounds great! #phoenixcoyotes


I know they are local Coyotes boosters but are they the type of just spew nonsense (I remember an Atlanta reporter making stuff up about someoen who was going to buy and save the Thrashers).
Pay no attention to those guys. They claim some "inside" information from someone involved in the GJ investment group. They have been less that reliable....

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01-30-2013, 02:27 PM
  #758
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Wow. A lot of pages to read since last night and a whole lotta nothing. No Jamison or Bettman sightings yet either.
It's hard to keep track of the blizzard of posts, but I thought that someone said that Bettman was scheduled to arrive in Glendale today. Any confirmation of that?

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01-30-2013, 02:29 PM
  #759
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That was fake, just some random nobody on twitter trying to start false rumors.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:29 PM
  #760
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It's hard to keep track of the blizzard of posts, but I thought that someone said that Bettman was scheduled to arrive in Glendale today. Any confirmation of that?
i think that was that guy whose girlfriend had a late lunch

but where are our teterboro faa friends?

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01-30-2013, 02:30 PM
  #761
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whoa, WSJ has an interview with Doug Wilson today. Maybe it's related!!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...833659128.html

No, just a regular interview.

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01-30-2013, 02:31 PM
  #762
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Pay no attention to those guys. They claim some "inside" information from someone involved in the GJ investment group. They have been less that reliable....
I'm seriously wondering whether one of those IEH guys (we're looking at you, IceEdgeDJ) is behind a lot of the "sources" that pop up in Glendale from time to time. I've noted previously how often an anonymously sourced article by Sunnucks ends up mentioning that IEH are part of the JIG. If these guys have been Sunnucks' "deep throat", they have been rather mischievous through this whole saga.

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01-30-2013, 02:31 PM
  #763
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No, just a regular interview.
you don't really have a sense of my style, do you...

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:33 PM
  #764
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One last thing and Im sorry if I didnt answer every hater of American hockey or Arizona hockey but...

Hearing it's stupid to have a few people lose jobs / millionaires. Maybe the dumbest comment of all today. Sure 4 policemen and I believe a librarian will not be able to have FULL TIME work but how can you compare that to all the front office, arena workers, concession, cleaning crew, restaurant workers, etc etc ETC that will be out of work if they leave? How about all the sports shops that will drop that whole revenue line? Losing a major sport would cripple Glendale. They may sell to Peoria if that happens.

Also Glendale will get a % of naming rights and if Jamison and his group want to purchase the Arena they will recoup the $180 million spent to build the arena. #1 is to secure ownership. #2 is to recapture STH and sponsors lost to Moyes and his lunacy. #3 is to get Glendale turning a profit again.
Please tell me, in all seriousness, without any mention of curling, and without using moronic Canadian-isms like "aboot" and "eh" that no one born before 1998 still thinks is at all even remotely accurate, appropriate, or funny, please explain:

(1) Why in the name of whatever religious entity you prescribe to would Jamison buy the bloody arena? The city is paying him $300 million over 20 years to manage the arena, why would he decide to instead forego all those millions and in turn fork over $180 million to buy the arena himself?

(2) Count how many front office / arena staff there are, in terms of full-time equivalents (hint: an usher who works 4 hours a game x 41 nights a year is about 1/14th of a full time employee) and compare that to the $15 million that Glendale is going to give Jamison to run the arena. What would result in more jobs, the continued miserable existence of the Coyotes in Glendale or the city spending that $15 million more wisely on police officers, the library, parks, roads and infrastructure?

(3) Please explain your # 3 above. How does Glendale ever make some sort of profit from this? Ever? Even if the arena is sold out for all home games and they bring in 100 sold out concerts a year. How does this generate a net profit for Glendale? They spend $15 million a year, get back a pittance in naming rights, the direct revenue pretty much has a ceiling at the ticket surcharge amount, and the tax rate is somewhere around 2%. How do they ever expect they'll recover $15 million a year from this venture? How?

Please, enlighten me. I get it, you want the team to stay. That's cool. But don't even preted that this makes sense for the city. It doesn't. Full stop.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:36 PM
  #765
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Thanks CF. I know you are aware of the situation down here and have actually been in the area. I'm sure Westgate will find tenants to replace the ones that will walk or go out of business. But...how many tattoos do you really need and how many watches does someone have to pawn. I guess we will see if Westgate becomes another Christown mall.

Thanks for the insight on the former Shark owners. Doesn't sound related to any GJ group, but I thought the timing was interesting.
Thank you as well. The data has always suggested that, in a vacuum, having an anchor tenant is the preferred situation. However, unfortunately for Jobing arena, this particular anchor tenant requires an operational subsidy that not only cannibalizes all of the benefits associated with having an anchor tenant, it also requires millions more above that.

So the answer and the question need to be phrased appropriately: Is it better for an arena to have an anchor tenant? Yes, unless the anchor tenant requires an operational subsidy that is exponentially more than the revenues that the tenant generates.

During several council meetings, former Mayor Scruggs did a rather astute job of detailing the usage of the arena for lower attendance, higher indirect revenue events. However, the paradigm shift to programming the arena as a non-sport venue was simply too much for some of the less wise council members to comprehend. It's really a shame because when someone on the dais finally starting speaking knowledgeably about the situation, it flew right over the head of 90%+ of the attendees.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:39 PM
  #766
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It's hard to read tea leaves, but when the departing owners say they're going to remain "the team's biggest fans" and "ardent supporters," it doesn't sound like they're planning to move to another franchise, either as owners or managers.
LOL Andy Reid said he hoped the Eagles win the Super Bowl. Of course you dont drop the bird on them. You wish them well, kiss them on the cheek, then fly to Phoenix

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01-30-2013, 02:41 PM
  #767
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Tyson Nash @TysonNash

"Should be a fun game tonight.Get ur butts in those seats. If not make sure to watch @FOXSPORTSAZ on the plus channel. U can thank me later"

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01-30-2013, 02:42 PM
  #768
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Thank you as well. The data has always suggested that, in a vacuum, having an anchor tenant is the preferred situation. However, unfortunately for Jobing arena, this particular anchor tenant requires an operational subsidy that not only cannibalizes all of the benefits associated with having an anchor tenant, it also requires millions more above that.

So the answer and the question need to be phrased appropriately: Is it better for an arena to have an anchor tenant? Yes, unless the anchor tenant requires an operational subsidy that is exponentially more than the revenues that the tenant generates.

During several council meetings, former Mayor Scruggs did a rather astute job of detailing the usage of the arena for lower attendance, higher indirect revenue events. However, the paradigm shift to programming the arena as a non-sport venue was simply too much for some of the less wise council members to comprehend. It's really a shame because when someone on the dais finally starting speaking knowledgeably about the situation, it flew right over the head of 90%+ of the attendees.
The Atlanta situation is a case in point. The owners wanted to jettison the Thrashers because they were a perpetual drag on the balance sheet. There were reports that the group that purchased the arena and the Hawks insisted that he didn't want the Thrashers in the deal, as I recall.

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:47 PM
  #769
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Tyson Nash @TysonNash

"Should be a fun game tonight.Get ur butts in those seats. If not make sure to watch @FOXSPORTSAZ on the plus channel. U can thank me later"
peut-Ítre an announcement during the game for publicity sake?

Or simply fan participation encouragement?

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Old
01-30-2013, 02:47 PM
  #770
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Hey guys, lets sell the Sharks and buy the Coyotes. That sounds like a logically sound business decision.

Yeah, not happening.

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01-30-2013, 02:48 PM
  #771
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It's done boys. I know I know...not good for Quebec but at least you have the Avalanche!

2% sales tax??? I believe it is 3% but they plan on charging for parking and CoG has in place penalties a fail safes that require Jamison's group to put on X number of events ea season. Protects them from work stoppage etc. Sure some will say $300 mill is pricey. But in 10-15 years maybe $15 mill per year is more of a bargain then now. Also in 2015 a new naming rights will be pursued and Glendale will get a piece of that. $30 million was paid in 2006 by Jobing.com

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01-30-2013, 02:48 PM
  #772
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Unless the league slashed the price of the Yotes by at least half, I can't see the point in selling one to buy the other.
Buy low sell hi

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01-30-2013, 02:54 PM
  #773
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I honestly don't have the numbers, and I don't know if you have them. But, if anyone was able to bring numbers from September to December 2011 and September to December 2012 of :

a) Westgate traffic
b) Westgate sales
c) Tax collected by Glendale from Westgate sales

I can bet your for sure, those numbers will be within 5% margin from one year to the other. And in 2011 there was hockey, in 2012 there was not. Does that means that without Coyotes the Westgate would crumble on itself ? I really really really doubt it.
Here is my best analogy for you to understand. If you had a business and leased space thinking a movie theater and professional team would be near by only to see one or both leave...
why stay? one thing to believe they will return..quite another if they left.

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01-30-2013, 02:56 PM
  #774
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Buy low sell hi
That's exactly why the league would have to slash the price. According to Forbes Sharks worthy 223, but if you want to sell, like anything else the price is less than if you are looking to buy. Yotes at 170 just makes the price of the two teams too close to being equal.

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01-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #775
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It's done boys. I know I know...not good for Quebec but at least you have the Avalanche!

2% sales tax??? I believe it is 3% but they plan on charging for parking and CoG has in place penalties a fail safes that require Jamison's group to put on X number of events ea season. Protects them from work stoppage etc. Sure some will say $300 mill is pricey. But in 10-15 years maybe $15 mill per year is more of a bargain then now. Also in 2015 a new naming rights will be pursued and Glendale will get a piece of that. $30 million was paid in 2006 by Jobing.com
@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Re: Coyotes. Thursday is not a deadline for Jamison to close his deal with NHL. It's a deadline to keep current terms of lease agreement...

@Real_ESPNLeBrun
... With city of Glendale. If Jamison doesn't come up with money to buy team by Thurs deadline, lease terms could change. But ...

@Real_ESPNLeBrun
It doesn't mean NHL is done with him. It will likely give him more time and see how it all shakes out... I'm not convinced Jamison ...

‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Will have the money in order by Thursday... But it's certainly possible. Either way, story doesn't end tomorrow. ...

@Real_ESPNLeBrun
I fear there will be more twists and turns in this story over next several weeks...

Yes, it sure sounds like it's "done".

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