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Major RFA to UFA Loophole in the New CBA?

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01-30-2013, 02:49 PM
  #1
Goulet17
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Major RFA to UFA Loophole in the New CBA?

Adrian Dater posted in his Denver Post blog that a RFA not signed within two years becomes a UFA? He wrote this in reference to Ryan O'Reilly's holdout situation.

I thought this only applied to newly a drafted players and not players coming off of their ELCs. If it applies to players coming off of ELCs, it seems like a massive loophole for players. A kid at age 21/22 just coming off of an ELC could go play in the KHL for two years and return at age 23/24 as a UFA.

Is Dater correct?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013/01/30/ryan-oreilly-update-goin/12416/

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01-30-2013, 02:52 PM
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416Leafer
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I doubt it's a loophole. Probably a concession to the players, if it is indeed the case.

Gives them the option if they feel like they absolutely hate the ownership, to go play in Europe or something for two years, and then become a UFA. I don't really see it as an issue, it won't apply to many players at all (Radulov is the only recent one that I can think where it would have applied). If a player is willing to play in Europe for two years just so they dont have to play with that team, thats dedication.

Granted, I don't know this clause in depth at all, and I'm just talking out of my bum.

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01-30-2013, 02:53 PM
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HockeyGuruPitka
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any player that cares more about playing hockey and being a teammate versus making money isnt affected by this.

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01-30-2013, 02:55 PM
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joestevens29
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Sure does give the Euro players some options, especially the ones that don't want to play in the AHL.

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01-30-2013, 02:58 PM
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joestevens29
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Fist up to go back and then comeback, Loktionov.

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01-30-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I doubt it's a loophole. Probably a concession to the players, if it is indeed the case.

Gives them the option if they feel like they absolutely hate the ownership, to go play in Europe or something for two years, and then become a UFA. I don't really see it as an issue, it won't apply to many players at all (Radulov is the only recent one that I can think where it would have applied). If a player is willing to play in Europe for two years just so they dont have to play with that team, thats dedication.

Granted, I don't know this clause in depth at all, and I'm just talking out of my bum.
This wouldn't have applied to Radulov since he left while still under contract.

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01-30-2013, 03:45 PM
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pld459666
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Only an idiot would hold out for 2 years.

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01-30-2013, 03:48 PM
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Goulet17
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Only an idiot would hold out for 2 years.
I don't know. Let's say you are a top young Russian player that just completed his ELC and the KHL cam calling with a huge two year contract. You play in Russia for two years at great money, and then return at 23/24 as a UFA in the NHL. Seems like a legitimate strategy to me.

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01-30-2013, 03:51 PM
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Petes2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
Adrian Dater posted in his Denver Post blog that a RFA not signed within two years becomes a UFA? He wrote this in reference to Ryan O'Reilly's holdout situation.

I thought this only applied to newly a drafted players and not players coming off of their ELCs. If it applies to players coming off of ELCs, it seems like a massive loophole for players. A kid at age 21/22 just coming off of an ELC could go play in the KHL for two years and return at age 23/24 as a UFA.

Is Dater correct?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...te-goin/12416/
Well O'Reilly just burned one of those years with his KHL contract being voided. That would've been interesting if he continued to play over there this year and next and then returned UFA... I guess he could still do it, but you'd want to play somewhere.

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01-30-2013, 04:03 PM
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Rfa limits the amount of competition players recieve for thier services. this concession allows for the market to allow for competition externally from other leagues. if the sel or khl is willing to beat the nhls offer the nhl then loses the right to restrict that players ability to seek adequate compensation. its friggen awesome work by the nhlpa and donald fehr.

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01-30-2013, 04:04 PM
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Goulet17
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
Rfa limits the amount of competition players recieve for thier services. this concession allows for the market to allow for competition externally from other leagues. if the sel or khl is willing to beat the nhls offer the nhl then loses the right to restrict that players ability to seek adequate compensation. its friggen awesome work by the nhlpa and donald fehr.
I don't disagree, but considering their hardline stance, I have a hard understanding how the owners agreed to this clause (if true).

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01-30-2013, 04:07 PM
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This could affect a lot of players unhappy with their current situation. Hypothetically if I am coming off my ELC with a club I am miserable with. I could think a lot of worse things than spending a couple of years playing in Switzerland, Sweden or Finland before returning to North America a free man. As far as going to the KHL? No thanks. Hate beets, not a big vodka drinker and kind of like having personal freedom. With my mouth I'd end up sharing a cell block with ***** Riot in the Gulag.

Ugh they edited out the first half of the punk rock band. I didn't mean to use it as swear. Honest.

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01-30-2013, 04:08 PM
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Petes2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
Rfa limits the amount of competition players recieve for thier services. this concession allows for the market to allow for competition externally from other leagues. if the sel or khl is willing to beat the nhls offer the nhl then loses the right to restrict that players ability to seek adequate compensation. its friggen awesome work by the nhlpa and donald fehr.
But how do you track what has or hasnt been offered. Im all for the competition but let's say, O'Reilly doesnt wanna play for the Avs anymore. He signs a two year deal in Switzerland for a million over his qualifying offer. Comes back and he's a UFA in two years.

How does anyone know the Avs didnt offer him $500k over that Swiss deal???

Personally I dont think a team should lose a player (Schultz) because he refused to sign with the team. Or better yet, if another team comes along and agrees to terms, that team should have a set price to pay.

If Im the Isles I dont draft a Russian player anywhere near the first round.

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01-30-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
I don't disagree, but considering their hardline stance, I have a hard understanding how the owners agreed to this clause (if true).
because in order to save the season they decided not to persue antitrust court which would challeneg a whole lot of what goes on in big sports. the owners dont really consider foreign leagues a threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
But how do you track what has or hasnt been offered. Im all for the competition but let's say, O'Reilly doesnt wanna play for the Avs anymore. He signs a two year deal in Switzerland for a million over his qualifying offer. Comes back and he's a UFA in two years.

How does anyone know the Avs didnt offer him $500k over that Swiss deal???

Personally I dont think a team should lose a player (Schultz) because he refused to sign with the team. Or better yet, if another team comes along and agrees to terms, that team should have a set price to pay.

If Im the Isles I dont draft a Russian player anywhere near the first round.
what theyre saying is so long as youve completed your elc youve completed your imdemniture (sp?) to the junior league you were drafted from. the "right" of an nhl team to its player is only so far as that player wants to play in the nhl.

say your cooters agent. hes been playing limited minutes and philly offers him the 10% qualifier. the gm over at avangard omsk however thinks hes a 1st line stud and offers 10 mil for two years. philly cant match that and fit under the cap. meanwhile couturier cant get any offers at 5 mil from an nhl team because they dont want to give philly the draft picks. why should you as an agent or him as a player honor a collusion between billionares to push down labor costs? this clause insures that each team as the leagues representitive is making the best offer possible from the nhl.

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01-31-2013, 06:09 AM
  #15
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I don't believe that this is correct. It would be something new for sure and it would a massive mistake for the NHL to agree to such a thing.

If it was in there then I am stunned we would not have heard about this. This would have been one of the most significant wins for the NHLPA.


Last edited by Fourier: 01-31-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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01-31-2013, 08:30 AM
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joestevens29
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I don't believe that this is correct. It would be something new for sure and it would a massive mistake for the NHL to agree to such a thing.

If it was in their then I am stunned we would not have heard about this. This would have been one of the mot significant wins for the NHLPA.
Come on Fourier they need something to have a lockout over next time. That and we can hear again how at the time the owners clearly one, but in the end they lost the lockout because of loopholes.

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01-31-2013, 10:29 AM
  #17
Pheasant the peasant
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Only an idiot would hold out for 2 years.
Blake Wheeler held out for 4.

Drafted by Phoenix, 5th overall in 2004. Never signed a thing with the Coyotes, keeping him out of the NHL and AHL. He played WCHA until he was a free agent, 4 full years.

Then he signed in Boston, going from the Golden Gophers one year to the Bruins the next. 20 goal scorer in his rookie season in the NHL, just had 64 points last season in Winnipeg.

The guy is 6'5" and is incredible. But he decided to burn 4 years of his early career so he didn't have to play for the Coyotes. What makes anyone think that a guy from Europe wouldn't rather wait 2 years at home and then decide where to play, instead of play away from home probably in the AHL just to have no controll over their career?

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01-31-2013, 10:38 AM
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Makes sense really. You can't tie down a player for life and 2 years seems like more then enough time for a team to decide wheather they trade a player or sign him or let him go for free

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01-31-2013, 10:43 AM
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Better for the league if there's more player movement IMO. Tired of certain teams hogging early draft picks (tanking) without any risk.

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01-31-2013, 10:46 AM
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joestevens29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheasant the peasant View Post
Blake Wheeler held out for 4.

Drafted by Phoenix, 5th overall in 2004. Never signed a thing with the Coyotes, keeping him out of the NHL and AHL. He played WCHA until he was a free agent, 4 full years.

Then he signed in Boston, going from the Golden Gophers one year to the Bruins the next. 20 goal scorer in his rookie season in the NHL, just had 64 points last season in Winnipeg.

The guy is 6'5" and is incredible. But he decided to burn 4 years of his early career so he didn't have to play for the Coyotes. What makes anyone think that a guy from Europe wouldn't rather wait 2 years at home and then decide where to play, instead of play away from home probably in the AHL just to have no controll over their career?
Wheeler didn't waste 4 years he needed to develop. you really think if he would've signed in 2004 that he would've been a 20 goal scorer right off the bat?

When guys go the college route it's generally not considered holding out. As soon as you sign a player his college career is done.

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01-31-2013, 10:48 AM
  #21
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Dater and his Denver Post buddies have been more wrong than right when it comes to CBA matters in the past.

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01-31-2013, 11:29 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Pheasant the peasant View Post
Blake Wheeler held out for 4.
Wheeler held out for 0.

He decided to turn pro after his junior season at Minnesota. He couldn't come to terms with Phoenix, so he signed with Boston.

This is a guy who couldn't wait to be a pro; he quit high school after his junior year to play USHL for the Green Bay Gamblers. He went to Minnesota for three years and then signed with Boston. He didn't "hold out".

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01-31-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheasant the peasant View Post
Blake Wheeler held out for 4.

Drafted by Phoenix, 5th overall in 2004. Never signed a thing with the Coyotes, keeping him out of the NHL and AHL. He played WCHA until he was a free agent, 4 full years.

Then he signed in Boston, going from the Golden Gophers one year to the Bruins the next. 20 goal scorer in his rookie season in the NHL, just had 64 points last season in Winnipeg.

The guy is 6'5" and is incredible. But he decided to burn 4 years of his early career so he didn't have to play for the Coyotes. What makes anyone think that a guy from Europe wouldn't rather wait 2 years at home and then decide where to play, instead of play away from home probably in the AHL just to have no controll over their career?

There also was a loophole that was closed that a few college players exploited. I am not sure if ti was this one or something different.

I do undertand that given hockey is an international game that players should get credit for professional years playing in Europe when it comes to UFA status.

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01-31-2013, 12:59 PM
  #24
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This could open up a whole new way of courting foreign players in pre-draft interviews. "Hey Barkov, I won't be picking in the top 10, but stay in Finland for two years and I will sign you as a UFA."

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