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Paul Kelly says QC & Toronto to get expansion teams; Daly disputes assertion

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:21 PM
  #101
Tough Guy
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Montreal and Vancouver say "hai!" Hell even Hamilton, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton have 2 professional teams.
Montreal and Vancouver have NHL. That's it. Both used to have 2 pro teams, but Vancouver couldn't hold on to the NBA and Montreal lost it's baseball team.

Toronto has 3 out of the big 4, and technically they have NFL as well, so that's all 4 major pro sports. No other city in Canada can touch that. No other Canadian city even comes close. You're only lying to yourself if you think otherwise.

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01-30-2013, 03:22 PM
  #102
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Toronto II would have to pay the Leafs to enter the market BUT with the Leafs now owned by Rogers/Bell a deal can be made as the games would wind up on either Sportsnet or TSN anyways.

Markham would not hurt Buffalo at all like Hamilton would.

Quebec would make money from day 1 with French TVA Sports and Sportsnet getting the games. The Nords had a strong following in Montreal going back to the WHA as their Sunday night TV games rivaled what the Habs were doing on Saturday.

Back in the 70's, Channel 22 in Burlington, Vermont also got big ratings in Montreal with Bruins games.

Seattle will most likely get a relocated team as their arena gets close to opening. Anaheim, Columbus and Florida are shaky.

I also would not bet against San Francisco being in the mix with their new building. San Jose is 50 miles away but night as well be 500 as that is a brutal drive during the week.

Kansas City has a wonderful arena and yet both the NHL and NBA have no interest in the market.

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:23 PM
  #103
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im on the escarpement, we're fine. theres concern for city dwellers down bellow though
I lived there many decades ago, still getting flashbacks though.

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
Nice inferiority complex you have. How about you tell me what "facts" I have to get straight?

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY Canadian city with a Major League Baseball team. Vancouver has never had one and likely never will.

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY Canadian city with a National Basketball Association team. Vancouver proved that it couldn't support the NBA and lost it's team. Don't be mad just because Toronto supports basketball and Vancouver didn't.

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY city on the planet to host a UFC stadium show. The city holds the ALL-TIME record for UFC attendance. The last UFC event in Vancouver had low ticket sales and you guys probably won't get another event for quite some time.

Fact: The Leafs have received more consistent support than the Canucks, despite the vast difference in the team records. You guys weren't coming close to selling out in the early part of the decade. Meanwhile Toronto was selling out every single game.

Fact: Toronto is the best pro sports town in Canada, bar none.
if i may, it was a one time deal (first ever UFC event in Ontario) if they knew they could replicate that they wouldnt have booked the ACC for there next events.. and btw the way the UFC at the acc 16000

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
Toronto II would have to pay the Leafs to enter the market BUT with the Leafs now owned by Rogers/Bell a deal can be made as the games would wind up on either Sportsnet or TSN anyways.

Markham would not hurt Buffalo at all like Hamilton would.

Quebec would make money from day 1 with French TVA Sports and Sportsnet getting the games. The Nords had a strong following in Montreal going back to the WHA as their Sunday night TV games rivaled what the Habs were doing on Saturday.

Back in the 70's, Channel 22 in Burlington, Vermont also got big ratings in Montreal with Bruins games.

Seattle will most likely get a relocated team as their arena gets close to opening. Anaheim, Columbus and Florida are shaky.

I also would not bet against San Francisco being in the mix with their new building. San Jose is 50 miles away but night as well be 500 as that is a brutal drive during the week.

Kansas City has a wonderful arena and yet both the NHL and NBA have no interest in the market.
little old Hamilton would hurt Buffalo? what would happen, define hurt? the wait list for season tickets wouldnt be as long in Buffalo

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01-30-2013, 03:34 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
I lived there many decades ago, still getting flashbacks though.
ha! couldnt put my finger on it before. i knew there had to be a reason why i like you.

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01-30-2013, 03:36 PM
  #107
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i think his point is its a Leafs town, so no point putting Hockey attendance in this
His "point" was that Toronto wasn't a sports town. The Leafs have sold out for decades. No other Canadian team (not even the habs) can make a similar claim. 'Nuff said.

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Raptors, well there tied to Leafs STH, and 13th in attendance is nothing to brag about.
Playing to 91.1% capacity and being 13th in attendance when you are arguably the biggest joke in the league is absolutely "something to brag about". The Raptors are also in the top 10 in gate receipts in the entire league. Other cities lose their NBA teams. Toronto supports it's team like crazy. 'Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Jays average 26000 but thats like 25th in the league and about 50percent so.
It's also about DOUBLE or TRIPLE what Montreal was drawing to games. The Jays haven't been competitive since 1993 and yet there continues to be support for the team. They get huge TV ratings and this year we will likely crack the top 10 in attendance.

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Soccer meh. TFC still got a new smell but the shine is wearing off.
What a strong argument.

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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
Toronto does suck, the 416 cant do it by themselves. it needs the 905
Its gonna be pretty great seeing the dome packed for baseball this year and the acc packed for hockey and basketball (as usual). Meanwhile in Hamilton...


Last edited by Tough Guy: 01-30-2013 at 03:45 PM.
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Old
01-30-2013, 03:37 PM
  #108
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little old Hamilton would hurt Buffalo? what would happen, define hurt? the wait list for season tickets wouldnt be as long in Buffalo
Yeah but it's all those Hamiltonions on the wait list.

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:43 PM
  #109
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if i may, it was a one time deal (first ever UFC event in Ontario) if they knew they could replicate that they wouldnt have booked the ACC for there next events.. and btw the way the UFC at the acc 16000
It was a one-time deal that no other Canadian city could pull off. We both know that.

And the UFC has been to the ACC twice since then. The first was 18,300 and the second was 16,800, both higher than the 14,700 who showed up for Vancouver's last show. Still waiting for that big Hamilton UFC event.... not holding my breath though.

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Old
01-30-2013, 03:52 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
little old Hamilton would hurt Buffalo? what would happen, define hurt? the wait list for season tickets wouldnt be as long in Buffalo
I think there are many fans in Niagara Township that would go to Hamilton simply not to deal with the Peace Bridge on gamedays. Markham on the other hand is just too far for them.

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01-30-2013, 03:58 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
It was a one-time deal that no other Canadian city could pull off. We both know that.

And the UFC has been to the ACC twice since then. The first was 18,300 and the second was 16,800, both higher than the 14,700 who showed up for Vancouver's last show. Still waiting for that big Hamilton UFC event.... not holding my breath though.
still.. if Toronto rocks, why not still go to the skydome everytime. ohh right, 16000 in a 50000 stadium would look like a home Jays game.


on a side note, i heard rumors MMA events wont be around much longer in Ontario.

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Old
01-30-2013, 04:00 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Yeah but it's all those Hamiltonions on the wait list.
Markhamites they got all the money for ST

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01-30-2013, 04:01 PM
  #113
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Montreal has the canadian Grand prix f1 race.Toronto has tripple a indy cart race.

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01-30-2013, 04:15 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Fenway View Post
I think there are many fans in Niagara Township that would go to Hamilton simply not to deal with the Peace Bridge on gamedays. Markham on the other hand is just too far for them.
i think some may.. but not enough to hurt Buffalo considering they have a wait list

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Old
01-30-2013, 04:17 PM
  #115
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Kansas City has a wonderful arena and yet both the NHL and NBA have no interest in the market.
If we could simply have a local billionaire step up and just throw the money already, it'd be done. AEG and that fact has been holding us back. Interesting to see what the sale will do for us long term.

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01-30-2013, 04:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
Nice inferiority complex you have. How about you tell me what "facts" I have to get straight?

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY Canadian city with a Major League Baseball team. Vancouver has never had one and likely never will.

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY Canadian city with a National Basketball Association team. Vancouver proved that it couldn't support the NBA and lost it's team. Don't be mad just because Toronto supports basketball and Vancouver didn't.

Fact: Toronto is the ONLY city on the planet to host a UFC stadium show. The city holds the ALL-TIME record for UFC attendance. The last UFC event in Vancouver had low ticket sales and you guys probably won't get another event for quite some time.

Fact: The Leafs have received more consistent support than the Canucks, despite the vast difference in the team records. You guys weren't coming close to selling out in the early part of the decade. Meanwhile Toronto was selling out every single game.

Fact: Toronto is the best pro sports town in Canada, bar none.
That's a nice load of bullsh** you just posted.

Fact: The NBA left Vancouver because an American conned his way into owning the team. Their departure had nothing to do with attendance or anything else. Heisley's plan was to relocate the team all along. The NBA commissioner has spoken on record several times and declared that leaving Vancouver was a mistake.

Fact: UFC 115 sold out in 30 minutes Vancouver. Fact: A lot of Canadian NHL teams did not consistently sell out before the year 2000. It was a different era then. People actually believed the threat that every team save for the Leafs was going to be relocated to Portland Oregon. A lot has changed since then.

As for the Canucks, well.... they haven't been shoved down everyone's throats for the last SIXTY years like the Leafs have. Heck, the Canucks couldn't even get a game on national TV until the 90's when the CBC finally relented and occasionally put them on the double header.

Fact: Toronto doesn't sell out MLB, CFL, or the NFL.

So please, don't give me this garbage about Toronto being a great sports town because the Leafs do really well. I'm sure you could make the same argument that such and such team had such amazing
fans if they were shoved down their throats for the last sixty years.

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01-30-2013, 04:19 PM
  #117
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So dumb if true...need the contract 2 teams, not add 2. And if they want to put teams 2 teams in cities, move the coyotes and panthers to seattle and quebec city. Leave 1 team in toronto. It will be like the yankees and mets.

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01-30-2013, 04:19 PM
  #118
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still.. if Toronto rocks, why not still go to the skydome everytime. ohh right, 16000 in a 50000 stadium would look like a home Jays game.
You do realize that 16,800 is not 16,000, right? If you want to round, feel free to round to 17,000. And I'll teach you something about the UFC that you never knew: 16,800 is a MONSTER gate for them. That Toronto event was the 3rd most-attended event in all of North-America for the entire year of 2012. Only Chicago (16,900) and Montreal (17,250 for GSP's comeback fight) had higher attendance for the entire year.

In 2011, Toronto had the #1 and #2 highest attended UFC events on the entire planet.

Pretty safe to say Toronto has supported the UFC.

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01-30-2013, 04:27 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
That's a nice load of bullsh** you just posted.

Fact: The NBA left Vancouver because an American conned his way into owning the team. Their departure had nothing to do with attendance or anything else. Heisley's plan was to relocate the team all along. The NBA commissioner has spoken on record several times and declared that leaving Vancouver was a mistake.

Fact: UFC 115 sold out in 30 minutes Vancouver.

Fact: A lot of Canadian NHL teams did not consistently sell out before the year 2000. It was a different era then. People actually believed the threat that every team save for the Leafs was going to be relocated to Portland Oregon. A lot has changed since then.

As for the Canucks, well.... they haven't been shoved down everyone's throats for the last SIXTY years like the Leafs have. Heck, the Canucks couldn't even get a game on national TV until the 90's when the CBC finally relented and occasionally put them on the double header.

Fact: Toronto doesn't sell out MLB, CFL, or the NFL.

So please, don't give me this garbage about Toronto being a great sports town because the Leafs do really well. I'm sure you could make the same argument that such and such team had such amazing
fans if they were shoved down their throats for the last sixty years.
So you claimed that the above facts were "bullsh**", yet you failed to prove even 1 of them wrong. You just came up with a bunch of excuses for why they are TRUE. You admitted Vancouver lost their team. You admitted the Leafs have had better support than the Canucks. You admitted everything I said was true, but just came up with a few excuses here and there.

You failed pretty hard.

Toronto has an NBA team and Vancouver doesn't. No amount of excuses will ever change that fact.

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01-30-2013, 04:33 PM
  #120
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You do realize that 16,800 is not 16,000, right? If you want to round, feel free to round to 17,000. And I'll teach you something about the UFC that you never knew: 16,800 is a MONSTER gate for them. That Toronto event was the 3rd most-attended event in all of North-America for the entire year of 2012. Only Chicago (16,900) and Montreal (17,250 for GSP's comeback fight) had higher attendance for the entire year.

In 2011, Toronto had the #1 and #2 highest attended UFC events on the entire planet.

Pretty safe to say Toronto has supported the UFC.
still not selling out.
so TO doesnt sell out the following
UFC
NBA
MLB
MLS
id say CFL but i'll give that a pass since Torontonians have been programmed by the Toronto media to hate the CFL.

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01-30-2013, 04:38 PM
  #121
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still not selling out.
so doesnt sell out the following
UFC
NBA
MLB
MLS
id say CFL but i'll give that a pass since Torontonians have been programmed by the Toronto media to hate the CFL.
The Yankees don't come close to selling out. Guess New York doesn't support baseball.

I'll get started on the list of things Hamilton doesn't sell-out. Might take me a few days to finish.

Feel free to keep on trolling in the meantime.

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01-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #122
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TORONTO is a horrible sport town.
Hence the crowds for the Leafs.

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01-30-2013, 04:45 PM
  #123
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The Yankees don't come close to selling out. Guess New York doesn't support baseball.

I'll get started on the list of things Hamilton doesn't sell-out. Might take me a few days to finish.

Feel free to keep on trolling in the meantime.
certainly more than Toronto does, yes?. hell, the Yankee fans are the reason why Toronto's average is higher than it should be.. and Boston

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01-30-2013, 04:54 PM
  #124
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certainly more than Toronto does, yes?. hell, the Yankee fans are the reason why Toronto's average is higher than it should be.. and Boston
So now attendance matters? You just argued that it didn't matter; only sell-outs did? So which is it?

Better work on your trolling game before you step up to the G Dawg.

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01-30-2013, 05:16 PM
  #125
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If the NHL does expand I doubt it will go to 2 Canadian cities. I think you'll see NHL expansion to 2 of Quebec City, Houston, Seattle, Las Vegas or Kansas City.

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