HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Ryan O'Reilly to Anaheim

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-30-2013, 04:38 PM
  #51
Ducksgo*
#EtemUp
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lakewood CA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,898
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ducksgo*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Getz2perry View Post
Its becuase he is from long beach, hes potentially very marketable and could be a big part of making hockey even bigger in california. Hes more valuable to us then hed be to any other team.
Agreed. He could be Jered Weaver on the Angels, but hockey wise. Weavers straight out of Northridge and played at Long Beach state. Debut'd an Angel and will likely retire an Angel. He's done youth organization seminars, kids foundations, and basically grew the sport of baseball locally. Not that baseball needs growing in any shape or form.

And to the critics, I'm only using Jered Weaver cause we don't have a SoCal player to compare it to hockey wise.

Ducksgo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:41 PM
  #52
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Sbisa already is a top 4 defensemen and unlike O'Reilly, is signed, and signed to a good contract by the way
Don't bother.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:44 PM
  #53
Avs44
Registered User
 
Avs44's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 8,271
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Sbisa already is a top 4 defensemen and unlike O'Reilly, is signed, and signed to a good contract by the way
A top 4 defensmen who has never played top 4 minutes in his career? This year he is what, 6th among all Ducks defensman in TOI/g? I'll make it 5th since Hendry only played one game I believe. The year before that? Also 5th. The year before that? 6th. I'm certain he will be a top 4 defensman, but right now, no he is not. Please explain to me how he is a top 4 defensman right now.

Avs44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:53 PM
  #54
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
A top 4 defensmen who has never played top 4 minutes in his career? This year he is what, 6th among all Ducks defensman in TOI/g? I'll make it 5th since Hendry only played one game I believe. The year before that? Also 5th. The year before that? 6th. I'm certain he will be a top 4 defensman, but right now, no he is not. Please explain to me how he is a top 4 defensman right now.
He spent time in our top 4 in the last half of the 2012 season. He was paired with Visnovsky. We're currently carrying six defensemen that have played top 4 roles in the past three years. Several of them in top pairing roles. We have a deep blue line group right now. If our team wasn't taking the precaution of having Fowler skating with a bodyguard, Allen - who should be on the third pairing, Sbisa would be on our second pairing.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 04:54 PM
  #55
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,304
vCash: 50
I'm not so willing to call Sbisa a top 4 defenseman yet. He's been in that role at times, and even done well there, but there hasn't been enough consistency for me to say that, yes, he's actually a top 4 defenseman. The potential is absolutely there though, and he could be one by the time this season is over.

To be honest, I'm not quite as unwilling to move Etem either. Don't get me wrong, I'd think long and hard about it, but the Ducks have been searching for a young #2 center for some time. If Etem was the deal breaker for Colorado, I'd probably do it. ...but, I'm not sure I'd do Sbisa and Etem. I think Anaheim is giving up a lot of cap flexibility there, not to mention a lot of talent, and to do it for an unsigned player, I'm just not sure about that.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:01 PM
  #56
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
A top 4 defensmen who has never played top 4 minutes in his career? This year he is what, 6th among all Ducks defensman in TOI/g? I'll make it 5th since Hendry only played one game I believe. The year before that? Also 5th. The year before that? 6th. I'm certain he will be a top 4 defensman, but right now, no he is not. Please explain to me how he is a top 4 defensman right now.
He's averaging almost 20 minutes a game! those other guys are basically half a shift, to 1 shift a game more right now AKA subject to alot of deviation still. the main thing that may skew the total TOI is the fact we're playing 4 forwards on the first PP unit so he's not getting alot of PP time, whereas Fowler and Souray are the primary PP dmen

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:03 PM
  #57
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 4,596
vCash: 500
Only way O'Reilly goes to Anaheim IMO is with a plus added to him for Ryan.

We don't need a collection of unproven pieces and massive risk coming back in the trade. We are not in year one or two of a rebuild...

And I get it that ANA fans don't like that trade, but throwing your prospects at us isn't going to go anywhere.

CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:05 PM
  #58
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Only way O'Reilly goes to Anaheim IMO is with a plus added to him for Ryan.

We don't need a collection of unproven pieces and massive risk coming back in the trade. We are not in year one or two of a rebuild...

And I get it that ANA fans don't like that trade, but throwing your prospects at us isn't going to go anywhere.
Sbisa isn't a prospect.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:06 PM
  #59
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,304
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Only way O'Reilly goes to Anaheim IMO is with a plus added to him for Ryan.

We don't need a collection of unproven pieces and massive risk coming back in the trade. We are not in year one or two of a rebuild...

And I get it that ANA fans don't like that trade, but throwing your prospects at us isn't going to go anywhere.
Sbisa is an established NHL player, who is only going to get better. Suggesting that Anaheim is throwing prospects at you is, well, ignorant.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:20 PM
  #60
airforceones25
Registered User
 
airforceones25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 3,299
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Sbisa is an established NHL player, who is only going to get better. Suggesting that Anaheim is throwing prospects at you is, well, ignorant.
Not entirely correct. Young players can certainly regress as well. Cam Barker comes to mind. Either way Sbisa is still an established young defenseman who certainly has the potential to get better in the very near future.

airforceones25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:22 PM
  #61
Goulet17
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,482
vCash: 500
adater ‏@adater
Tons of NHL teams calling about O'Reilly. But Avs say they are not dealing him

Goulet17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:25 PM
  #62
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
adater ‏@adater
Tons of NHL teams calling about O'Reilly. But Avs say they are not dealing him
I don't expect that they would. I think they'll exhaust every avenue to keep him, maybe even pushing into the summer if that was what it took.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:25 PM
  #63
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,304
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by airforceones25 View Post
Not entirely correct. Young players can certainly regress as well. Cam Barker comes to mind. Either way Sbisa is still an established young defenseman who certainly has the potential to get better in the very near future.
Fair enough. As a player, I'd argue that he projects to get better, but you do make a good point. There is no guarantee.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:26 PM
  #64
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 4,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Sbisa is an established NHL player, who is only going to get better. Suggesting that Anaheim is throwing prospects at you is, well, ignorant.
He hasn't established himself in any way as anything close to what we need in a #2 defender. I get that hes not a prospect but we are still getting a player based on a hell of a lot of 'hope' that he turns into something better.

That's all I'm saying, and DSP isn't the type of 'offensive' prospect we would need either.

When it comes down to it, I'm uncomfortable with any sort of package coming our way for O'Reilly. Hes a core 'type' player for us so I want another 'core' player in return. Sbisa just isn't quite there yet for me.

CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:29 PM
  #65
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
He hasn't established himself in any way as anything close to what we need in a #2 defender. I get that hes not a prospect but we are still getting a player based on a hell of a lot of 'hope' that he turns into something better.

That's all I'm saying, and DSP isn't the type of 'offensive' prospect we would need either.
For that kind of certainty, I think that you need to get him signed, but if you have him signed it's not like you'd be looking to move him.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:30 PM
  #66
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 26,304
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
He hasn't established himself in any way as anything close to what we need in a #2 defender. I get that hes not a prospect but we are still getting a player based on a hell of a lot of 'hope' that he turns into something better.

That's all I'm saying, and DSP isn't the type of 'offensive' prospect we would need either.
You want a top pairing defenseman for ROR? That's uh... ambitious.

Sojourn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:32 PM
  #67
IWantSakicAsMyGM
Registered User
 
IWantSakicAsMyGM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goulet17 View Post
adater ‏@adater
Tons of NHL teams calling about O'Reilly. But Avs say they are not dealing him
21 year old, RFA, Selke caliber C who will probably score 60+ points a year with decent wingers, if not more. Great work ethic, so who really knows his ceiling. If you had his rights, and thought you could get a long term deal worked out, would you trade him?

And, it's the Avs. Does anyone really believe that their going to be honest about their plans?

IWantSakicAsMyGM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:33 PM
  #68
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 4,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
For that kind of certainty, I think that you need to get him signed, but if you have him signed it's not like you'd be looking to move him.
I understand that signed/unsigned aspect, but IMO if O'Reilly was traded it would be just plain stupid to make the trade without allowing the team hes going to to workout the contract details prior to the trade.

Yes... Without that we won't get the value we need to make it worth trading him. You could almost say we're better off holding out until he signs instead of trading him without contract details worked out. Too much risked involved for both teams in the trade without it.

CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:36 PM
  #69
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
I understand that signed/unsigned aspect, but IMO if O'Reilly was traded it would be just plain stupid to make the trade without allowing the team hes going to to workout the contract details prior to the trade.

Yes... Without that we won't get the value we need to make it worth trading him. You could almost say we're better off holding out until he signs instead of trading him without contract details worked out. Too much risked involved for both teams in the trade without it.
It didn't seem to make a difference when Kessel was traded. Toronto had a clear idea of what his contract demands were and if they could meet them.

If there wasn't any sort of assurance like that, teams just wouldn't trade for him.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:41 PM
  #70
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 4,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
You want a top pairing defenseman for ROR? That's uh... ambitious.
At least someone a hell of a lot closer than Sbisa, or yeah we could easily add the piece(s) needed to get someone like Yandle. O'Reilly is worth enough that the difference in value is manageable, and the team taking him wouldn't be getting a package of 'hope' in return.

Just like me mentioning Ryan, the addition to O'Reilly wouldn't exactly need to be back breaking in order to offset value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
It didn't seem to make a difference when Kessel was traded. Toronto had a clear idea of what his contract demands were and if they could meet them.

If there wasn't any sort of assurance like that, teams just wouldn't trade for him.
And Boston got a pretty good return, so I'm not sure what your saying here...

My argument is pertaining to O'Reilly's value not being effected to much by not having a contract, because in the event of a trade contract issues would probably be resolved. Or it wouldn't be worth trading him at all.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 01-30-2013 at 05:46 PM.
CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:44 PM
  #71
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
He hasn't established himself in any way as anything close to what we need in a #2 defender. I get that hes not a prospect but we are still getting a player based on a hell of a lot of 'hope' that he turns into something better.

That's all I'm saying, and DSP isn't the type of 'offensive' prospect we would need either.

When it comes down to it, I'm uncomfortable with any sort of package coming our way for O'Reilly. Hes a core 'type' player for us so I want another 'core' player in return. Sbisa just isn't quite there yet for me.
I don't think you're going to get a top 2 dman for an unsigned 2nd line center

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:49 PM
  #72
CobraAcesS
Registered User
 
CobraAcesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Seattle
Country: United States
Posts: 4,596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
I don't think you're going to get a top 2 dman for an unsigned 2nd line center
Read the other things I've said... I'm quite clear about having to add some sort of piece to O'Reilly in a trade like that. And posted about the contract issue as well.

CobraAcesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:55 PM
  #73
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 19,388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Read the other things I've said... I'm quite clear about having to add some sort of piece to O'Reilly in a trade like that. And posted about the contract issue as well.
Ok but top 2 D have a good amount more value than a 2nd line center, so how much do you then add? and if O'Reilly costs a team 4-5 mil per year, he loses bang 4 buck value

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 05:59 PM
  #74
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,172
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
And Boston got a pretty good return, so I'm not sure what your saying here...

My argument is pertaining to O'Reilly's value not being effected to much by not having a contract, because in the event of a trade contract issues would probably be resolved. Or it wouldn't be worth trading him at all.
Boston got two first round picks and a 2nd. Those picks weren't the 2nd, 9th, and 32nd overall at the time of that trade. Do you want draft picks? Because that seems like an even bigger gamble to me. Maybe you'll get as lucky as they did, but I wouldn't count on it.

Toronto knew the deal Kessel wanted and they knew that he would sign with them. They had those assurances already.

Exit Dose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 06:06 PM
  #75
Pierce Hawthorne
Formerly Avsare1
 
Pierce Hawthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Caverns of Draconis
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
Ok but top 2 D have a good amount more value than a 2nd line center, so how much do you then add? and if O'Reilly costs a team 4-5 mil per year, he loses bang 4 buck value
You're underrating Oreilly if you think he's just a 2C right now or for his career. The guy led the entire NHL in takeaways last season, led the Avs in points as a 21 year old. And the fact that he made the NHL out of the draft as an 18 year old 2nd round pick and has been given the defensive trust and responsibilities that he's been given only show how truly good his defensive game is.

The fact that now he's starting to find some pretty promising Offensive upside makes him even more promising. I mean Oreillys potential right now could easily be that of a 65-70 point player with Selke defense. He even got Selke consideration last year.


Now, Im not saying the Avs will get a Top pairing Dman straight up for Oreilly, but it certainly wouldn't be a big + added. A lot of GM's around the league realize how good Oreilly could become, and already is.

Sbisa + DSP/Holland is a pretty good trade for both sides. But the Avs wouldn't do it unless they knew for sure Oreilly wasn't coming back.

Sbisa + Etem for Oreilly+ would also be interesting from both sides.

Pierce Hawthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.