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Do we need a heavyweight enforcer...

View Poll Results: Should the Habs claim Darcy Hordichuk on waivers?
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Old
01-30-2013, 04:42 PM
  #101
TennisMenace
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And the trend is they are playing less and less. Look at Jody Shelley, he went from playing almost 60 games to 30 last year, and many of those were as a placeholder. Even Flyers fans, who love toughness, hate that he's wasting a roster spot. The Kings, despite valuing plenty of toughness, hardly used Westgarth last year and dumped him as soon as they could. Parros was completely useless against us.

You want to create a spark? Have Prust or White fight a real hockey player. This might be a problem against the Bruins, but Prust can handle himself against 95% of the NHL.
So you don't mind Prust fighting guys 40 pounds heavier. I do.

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01-30-2013, 04:44 PM
  #102
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As for Tinordi, I've never seen him win a fight in the AHL, so what would he do against the NHL enforcers?

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01-30-2013, 04:52 PM
  #103
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A bit xenophobic eh? Because Emelin is so much more scared out there than St. Denis would be.
Nothing Xenophobic in saying we've been playing like a bunch of Euros players given that they really have a different mindset in playing the game. In their league there's no intimidation and they don't have to defend teamates per se, it's only skills. We have had this mentality perpetuated by having too much of guys like the Rucinskys and Bullis' and even the Kostitsyn Bros. and even guys that have been important to us like Saku, like Kovy, like Plekanec have never been the kind to help teamates. We have had this identity for too long. The last three example, we're talking about feisty players but who never have put their lives on the line for teamates. But personaly I think it's because they were badly surrounded.

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01-30-2013, 04:57 PM
  #104
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As for Tinordi, I've never seen him win a fight in the AHL, so what would he do against the NHL enforcers?
the guy is not a heavy but he got some good fight and win this year. He have a heavyweight body with middleweight fighting ability

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01-30-2013, 05:03 PM
  #105
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When Lemaire and Risebrough were in Minnesota, they had a philosophy, you never have enough of these guys. At some point they even had three(!).

But in Montreal we somehow think the team will stop playing hockey because we have guys like these. Just because BGL was lousy at it. Because having a team of softy skaters worked so well for us in the last 15 years.
I suggest you give your premise a little more thought.

The Habs were mismanaged but not for the reason you suggest. Why was last season so dismal? It wasn't because they lacked a goon. They lacked talent. Most of their forwards outside the first line didn't produce. Instead of Markov they had Gill, who had no offensive ability, and an odd lot of Campoli, Weber, Spacek/ Kaberle, and an inexperienced Diaz. They suffered from calamitous injuries. They've won four of five this season because they added Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Prust and they have Markov back (and very hot). I don't see a Derek Boogard or anyone remotely like him.

What success has Minnesota had since losin in the finals to the Penguins about 20 years ago? I can't recall any. They're credible now because they've added Parise and Suter, not a new batch of goons.

An afterthought: A couple of years ago they lost in the 7th game to the eventual champion Bruins. It'd be be hard to convince me that having Pacioretty wouldn't have changed the outcome. During the past 15 years they've been handicapped by bad management decisions, yet once they came in first in the East. Was that because they intimidated everyone else?

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01-30-2013, 05:03 PM
  #106
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If the Bruins wanna act like a bunch of dumb chimps and take penalties, let them. The Habs will just burn them on the PP. No need to play into their hands by trying to match them physically. I would welcome another tough guy, but only if he's useful for more than 2 minutes a game.

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01-30-2013, 05:07 PM
  #107
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If the Bruins wanna act like a bunch of dumb chimps and take penalties, let them. The Habs will just burn them on the PP. No need to play into their hands by trying to match them physically.
That old argument. "Let's make them pay on PP".

Meanwhile, they have a cup ring on their fingers.

Every heard of team spirit, of guys standing up for one another? That goes a long way with winning games on the long run.

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01-30-2013, 05:14 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
That old argument. "Let's make them pay on PP".

Meanwhile, they have a cup ring on their fingers.

Every heard of team spirit, of guys standing up for one another? That goes a long way with winning games on the long run.
Standing up for your guys won't do much if your guys suck at hockey. The Bruins have deliberately built a team around tough guys who play hockey, including a European!

Crediting their win to "team spirit" ignores just how much talent they actually have. Notice how none of these other heavyweights scattered around are able to put up as many points as Thornton, let alone Lucic?

And yes, we have struggled with other teams much more than we have the Bruins. Which means our problems have gone much further than having Europeans on our roster, sorry.

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01-30-2013, 05:14 PM
  #109
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Hockey changed HERE. Mangement accepted that the team was getting banged up and intimidated and with time so did the fans. That mentality is gone now, but we haven't really tested it until we face one of the top bruising teams like the obvious Boston, Philly and both NY teams. Both Florida teams are equipped to protect themselves now, Buffalo got Scott, Orr is back in Toronto, Islanders got Carkner and Boulton with Martin, etc etc.
Florida couldn't protect themselves against goals.

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01-30-2013, 05:15 PM
  #110
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a team with a heavyweight enforcer can't win the stanley cup

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01-30-2013, 05:16 PM
  #111
Et le But
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a team with a heavyweight enforcer can't win the stanley cup
Strawman.

The Kings had a heavyweight goon on their roster, they didn't play him once in the playoffs. If you count Clifford, he played 3 times in the playoffs and did nothing.

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01-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
That old argument. "Let's make them pay on PP".

Meanwhile, they have a cup ring on their fingers.

Every heard of team spirit, of guys standing up for one another? That goes a long way with winning games on the long run.
1 in the last 40 years.

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01-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #113
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As for Tinordi, I've never seen him win a fight in the AHL, so what would he do against the NHL enforcers?
Honestly, Tinordi won most of his fight in the AHL. But he's no heavyweight.

I wouldn't mind a Heavyweight as the 13th forward to take the place of Blunden.
Would dress him against Boston, Rangers, etc

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01-30-2013, 05:30 PM
  #114
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Well if Neil is a heavyweight for you guys we have 3 heavy on the team because they all can fight Neil and come out even or better.

Half the guys mentioned here are not heavy weights at all. They're plugs that can fight.

There's three type of enforcer the guy who play's hockey(We have 3 of them.) The guy who can't play hockey but will destroy anybody(Carkner, Erskine, Orr, Scott.) and the plug who is strong enough to win against non-fighter but won't ever win against the real heavyweights, and they can't play hockey.(Parros, Rupp, Shelley, Janssen..)
Oh and there's the expensive enforcers, wich we can only wish to have..: Lucic, Clarkson...

Keep in mind that they can't just drop the gloves and start mauling people, this is a penalty. So you just refuse to fight the better fighters.

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01-30-2013, 05:32 PM
  #115
Et le But
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Carkner isn't really all that unstoppable anymore anyway. He will still beat up middle of the road fighters, but Lucic crushed him.

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01-30-2013, 05:48 PM
  #116
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Carkner isn't really all that unstoppable anymore anyway. He will still beat up middle of the road fighters, but Lucic crushed him.
Crushed him ? Carkner went with his left hand.. I hardly call this crushing. Komi vs Lucic was crushing. This was just a mistake by Carkner.

Anyway, it's a fight it's not an exact science. Unless you're Kostopoulos, then you're getting beated up.

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01-30-2013, 05:50 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
When Lemaire and Risebrough were in Minnesota, they had a philosophy, you never have enough of these guys. At some point they even had three(!).

But in Montreal we somehow think the team will stop playing hockey because we have guys like these. Just because BGL was lousy at it. Because having a team of softy skaters worked so well for us in the last 15 years.
You're bringing back a lot of great memories of the Minnesota Wild dynasty and all those Cups. Why didn't more teams emulate that style and dress three neanderthal slugs to fight?

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01-30-2013, 05:52 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
That old argument. "Let's make them pay on PP".

Meanwhile, they have a cup ring on their fingers.

Every heard of team spirit, of guys standing up for one another? That goes a long way with winning games on the long run.
How many fights were there in the Bruins march to the Stanley Cup?

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Old
01-30-2013, 06:21 PM
  #119
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Prust sure got destroyed by the heavywieght there heh ?

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01-30-2013, 06:49 PM
  #120
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Yes.

We need a part timer here in Montreal.

Get a big mean fighter signed for $1 million per year. Let him sit in the press box for most games. When we face Boston, dress him and put him on the ice and have him drop the gloves immediately with Thornton to get it out of the way. Let him sit on the bench to be used as needed.

After the Bruins game, back to the pressbox.

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01-30-2013, 06:56 PM
  #121
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Prust sure got destroyed by the heavywieght there heh ?
you sound like a tool. Go to hockeyfights.com maybe you will learn something

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01-30-2013, 06:59 PM
  #122
Mrb1p
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you sound like a tool. Go to hockeyfights.com maybe you will learn something
To learn what? Learn what is fighting from people over the internet, who might(probably) have never even fought once in their lives? On ice/off ice??

Thing is he didn't lose this fight VS Neil. Wich is really bad for your argument, so you take it back by insulting me.

Hey, it's all cool!

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01-30-2013, 07:01 PM
  #123
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don't want an enforcer but would like a Mcquaid type on D. maybe it's Tinordi but that's next year. So maybe move a Weber or Kaberle for a tough stay at home dman who can also chuck 'em

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01-30-2013, 07:04 PM
  #124
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Yes.

We need a part timer here in Montreal.

Get a big mean fighter signed for $1 million per year. Let him sit in the press box for most games. When we face Boston, dress him and put him on the ice and have him drop the gloves immediately with Thornton to get it out of the way. Let him sit on the bench to be used as needed.

After the Bruins game, back to the pressbox.
We have lots of guys to fight Thornton.

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01-30-2013, 07:09 PM
  #125
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I wouldn't mind having a guy who can toss em if he can play too. The team seems to be a bit more aggressive this year, which is nice. I think as a result though we are going to see teams dropping the gloves more, like after White's big hit in the first.

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