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Old
01-30-2013, 08:51 AM
  #426
leesmith
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Originally Posted by FANonymous View Post
I don't know if this is completely fair. The defense completely botched the play on the last goal but Mason did come up big on the penalty shot. It would've been nice for both to have been stopped but anytime you have a forward coming in 1 on 1 with a goalie the shooter has the advantage.

Not trying to rag on you.
No worries. I have no problems with anyone who honestly disagrees with me, but is respectful of a differing opinion. Well played.

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01-30-2013, 08:54 AM
  #427
pete goegan
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
To my surprise, I find myself agreeing with Mayor Bee. I do not understand how anyone expected any more than what we are seeing. After the clearing out of the "name" vets, Vermette, Carter, Nash, etc, it was pretty obvious we were going thru a real, actual, dog gone honest rebuild that was focused upon creating an atmosphere that focused upon hard work and a competitive, "no quit" attitude and younger players. That is exactly what we have.

It was also pretty obvious that we would be lacking significant offensive talent and that we would be a low scoring "score by committee" offense until we bring in real offensive talent during the rebuild. And that is what we have.

They have played hard, they lack offensive talent, and they have, hopefully a bushel full of reasonably high draft picks to use in what is supposed to be a deep draft. They brought in a pro in JD to oversee this process. To me the train is back on the tracks and I am content to wait until we find out where it takes us in a couple of years.
Much to my surprise, I agree with you both.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:54 AM
  #428
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It is efident that they are missing Cam, just his play without the puck is worrysome to the opponent's defense, and there is no other player on this team that can do that. Closest player to it is Calvert

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01-30-2013, 08:57 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
I, for one, have seen improved play by Mase in this young season.
Can you deny that Mason has show flashes, in the past, exceeding the performance of this early season? I'm not talking about his rookie season either.

What bothers me isn't that some think he is playing "better". It's the whole sale attempt by the coaching staff and our media crew making him out to be the victim. Every goalie on bad teams faces what Mason does, to varying degree's.

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01-30-2013, 08:59 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Can you deny that Mason has show flashes, in the past, exceeding the performance of this early season? I'm not talking about his rookie season either.

What bothers me isn't that some think he is playing "better". It's the whole sale attempt by the coaching staff and our media crew making him out to be the victim. Every goalie on bad teams faces what Mason does, to varying degree's.
Wait you don't like hearing that he lost 15lbs in the offseaon every time he makes a save?

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01-30-2013, 09:04 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by 1857 Howitzer View Post
Wait you don't like hearing that he lost 15lbs in the offseaon every time he makes a save?
hah! Nothing annoys me more than people praising athletes for losing body fat. Well that is not completely true there are things that annoy me more, but I preferred to go cliche.


Last edited by blahblah: 01-30-2013 at 09:17 AM.
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01-30-2013, 09:19 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Completely botching seven consecutive drafts, as Doug MacLean did, is a huge part of what we see today. Look at 2003, when we saw Zherdev and Fritsche come to Columbus while Weber and Suter went to Nashville, Carter and Richards to Philly, and Perry and Getzlaf to Anaheim. Look at what Chicago was developing even as their actual NHL roster was crashing and burning. Look at all the pieces St. Louis had even as they were finishing dead last.

...

This isn't college football, where two excellent recruiting classes can carry an also-ran into the BCS within four years. It's not the NFL, where a single strong draft and a couple of free agent signings can turn a 3-13 team into a Super Bowl champion. The NHL is a lot closer to MLB. Unless you're drafting a truly elite prospect, no one you take is even going to be in the league inside of three years, let alone be an All-Star. Take a look at the Pirates, who have flirted with the top of the NL Central the last two years and look to be improving every single year (79-83 last year being their best mark since 1997, and tying for the best since 1992). When was their GM hired? 2007. What did he have on the roster and farm system? More than what Dougie left in Columbus.
There it is.

You draft **** for 7 years and your going struggle for 7 years. I think we are just now seeing fair, NHL legit, prospects emerging from the farm system, and I hope what we are adding will come to fruition in a few years as well. Look at the last 5 drafts and who is coming up. 2010 was bad year, minus Johansen, Filatov was a bust in '08, but Howson has drafted much better than Maclean overall. He is 4 for 5 with 1st round picks, Filatov being the lone bust.

2008:
Atkinson
Calvert

2009:
John Moore
David Savard

2010:
Johansen

2011:
Jenner
Tynan
Forsberg

2012:
Murray
Dansk
Korpisalo
Zaar

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01-30-2013, 09:26 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
To my surprise, I find myself agreeing with Mayor Bee. I do not understand how anyone expected any more than what we are seeing. After the clearing out of the "name" vets, Vermette, Carter, Nash, etc, it was pretty obvious we were going thru a real, actual, dog gone honest rebuild that was focused upon creating an atmosphere that focused upon hard work and a competitive, "no quit" attitude and younger players. That is exactly what we have.

It was also pretty obvious that we would be lacking significant offensive talent and that we would be a low scoring "score by committee" offense until we bring in real offensive talent during the rebuild. And that is what we have.

They have played hard, they lack offensive talent, and they have, hopefully a bushel full of reasonably high draft picks to use in what is supposed to be a deep draft. They brought in a pro in JD to oversee this process. To me the train is back on the tracks and I am content to wait until we find out where it takes us in a couple of years.
I agree. They are who I thought they would be. The defense isn't living up to my expectations, Mason has been better than horrible, and Atkinson isn't scoring (or playing), but besides that, this team is pretty much what JD told us they'd be.

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01-30-2013, 09:30 AM
  #434
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
To my surprise, I find myself agreeing with Mayor Bee. I do not understand how anyone expected any more than what we are seeing. After the clearing out of the "name" vets, Vermette, Carter, Nash, etc, it was pretty obvious we were going thru a real, actual, dog gone honest rebuild that was focused upon creating an atmosphere that focused upon hard work and a competitive, "no quit" attitude and younger players. That is exactly what we have.

It was also pretty obvious that we would be lacking significant offensive talent and that we would be a low scoring "score by committee" offense until we bring in real offensive talent during the rebuild. And that is what we have.

They have played hard, they lack offensive talent, and they have, hopefully a bushel full of reasonably high draft picks to use in what is supposed to be a deep draft. They brought in a pro in JD to oversee this process. To me the train is back on the tracks and I am content to wait until we find out where it takes us in a couple of years.
agreed...

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:39 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by JacketsDavid View Post
I'm still trying to sort thru how every sees Mason as the worst goalie ever and Bob as a saviour. Bob has had 2 decent games and they happened to be on nights when our team managed to score 2 goals in regulation (which as bad as it is to say is a good offensive night for us).
Mason allowed 3 goals last night to a pretty good team and all the complaining is about his perfermance.
Folks wake up. Bottom line in the NHL if you score 3 goals you will on average get a point (should in theory take you to OT with an opportunity to get the 2nd). if you get 4+ goals on most nights you should get 2 points. 0-2 goals on most nights won't get you anywhere. Focus on the lack of offense. If we are losing games 4-3 then I would buy into more of the goaltending sucks.

We've gone thru the same things in the past blaming Denis, Pascal, etc for softies. My prediction is next season those that are consistently saying "Mason sucks" will be calling for Bob's head on a platter.
Mason was fine last night, he played well enough for us to win. You don't win many games with only 2 goals, thats the bottom line here.

As for Bobrovsky, you're playing him down a bit aren't you? 2 decent games? IMO he was great in Nashville, good vs Detroit, bad in Colorado, good vs Dallas. Overall, I think his stats are pretty indicitive of his play: 2-1-1 .922 / 2.40, 10th in the league in sv pctg, 11th in the league in GAA. Its been 3 years since we had a starting goalie with numbers in the top half of the league. Lets hope he keeps it up.


FWIW, Mason's numbers after 3 starts:

0-3-0 .880/ 3.73

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:51 AM
  #436
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Is it completely fair to blame Moore and Tyutin? They had the outside guys covered, one on one, and a trailing forward came up the middle, split them, and went in on Mason alone. Should there have been a backchecking forward responsible for covering the third man on the attack? I suppose a lack of communication/familiarity prevented the defensemen from knowing who was to leave their man to cover the middle, but might not part of the fault be elsewhere? As for Mason, that was a tough spot. Had he made the stop, it would have been great. Not making it, in that situation, cannot be considered a major fault on his part. I'm not making excuses for any of the three, just wondering if there might have been another factor in giving up the third goal.
I hear what you're saying, I was mostly trying to point out that you couldn't blame Mason for that goal. Anytime there's an extra forward coming down on the defense 3 on 2, yeah there should be a forward backchecking to help out, but the defense is the last line before the goalie, you can't engage someone at the blueline and stand there as another guy comes skating right by you with the puck. Your job is to not let anyone behind you unless they're going into the corner/behind the net. I don't fully place the blame on the defense, but they carry a hefty portion of it on that goal. It really was a great passing play by the Wild though.

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01-30-2013, 10:05 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Nordique View Post
There it is.

You draft **** for 7 years and your going struggle for 7 years. I think we are just now seeing fair, NHL legit, prospects emerging from the farm system, and I hope what we are adding will come to fruition in a few years as well.
I've always agreed that our drafting looks better. But at this point, it is still appearance. We actually haven't drafted better until we see results at the NHL level.

As far as the 2010 draft, we still have Madaisky, Smith, and Prout floating out there. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them yet. By all accounts Prout (at least the accounts I've heard) is doing very well in Springfield right now. Excellent results from a 6th rounder.

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01-30-2013, 10:19 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I've always agreed that our drafting looks better. But at this point, it is still appearance. We actually haven't drafted better until we see results at the NHL level.

As far as the 2010 draft, we still have Madaisky, Smith, and Prout floating out there. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them yet. By all accounts Prout (at least the accounts I've heard) is doing very well in Springfield right now. Excellent results from a 6th rounder.
True on Prout, I shouldn't omit him and others. Howson and Co. may have a knack for late round drafting.

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:21 AM
  #439
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its sad we can count on putting an L on the schedule after the other team gets 2-3 goals

but hey lets Draft Seth Jones, somehow thats going to move us up from the 3rd worst offense in hockey!

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01-30-2013, 10:24 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Glad to see you have an idea on how to temper expectations. If you expected much more than this, perhaps you should Google delusional.
I never expected tons of wins or playoffs, as I've said. But when you are paying a veteran 29-year-old defenseman $4.5 million over the next 6 years, I think it is reasonable to expect him to not pass the puck directly to the other team every single game.

Same with the 30 year old veteran forward also making $4.6 million, and the 25 year old who has been in the league 2007 and is being paid over $3 million. Same with a 39 year old veteran making over $2 million who was brought here specifically to to mentor and be an example, and so far, is basically an example of how not to play.

I don't understand why you and other posters act like this is a team full of kids and we should just be happy they are trying. Most of the players on this team are 24 and older with significant NHL experience:

Dubinsky - 26
Umberger - 30
Tyutin - 29
Nikitn -26
Wiz - 28
JJ - 26
Aucoin - 39
Prospal - 37
Foligno - 25
Anisimov - 24
Dorsett - 26
D mac - 31

As far as I'm concerned, Cam, Calvert, Johansen, Moore, these are the "kids" and can have as much room to grow and learn as they need. I haven't and won't complain about anything those guys do, they are the future and mistakes and low production are part of development.

As for all of the above - when you are a 25 year old or older professional athlete, "effort" is a basic expectation, not something to be lauded. Also, as vets, these guys should know better than to try fancy and risky passes that are leading to turnovers and goals for the other team.

Just because we aren't the most talented team, doesn't mean we can't at least play smart. We could have won last night's game, and we could have won the Chicago game if our veteran, highly paid players, either didn't hand the other team the puck and give them easy scoring chances, or put up some production themselves.

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01-30-2013, 11:57 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by CBJFan19 View Post
its sad we can count on putting an L on the schedule after the other team gets 2-3 goals

but hey lets Draft Seth Jones, somehow thats going to move us up from the 3rd worst offense in hockey!
We also averaged giving up three goals a game. The Blues, who drafted Alex Pietrangelo over Nikita Filatov, averaged less than two goals against per game. Their highest scorer was David Backes with 24 goals and 54 points. They had the second best record in the league while ranking 21st in goals per game.

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01-30-2013, 12:26 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I never expected tons of wins or playoffs, as I've said. But when you are paying a veteran 29-year-old defenseman $4.5 million over the next 6 years, I think it is reasonable to expect him to not pass the puck directly to the other team every single game.
Your point is lost on me. No kidding we are making too many mistakes. Our players aren't the only ones struggling in the NHL.

Quote:
I don't understand why you and other posters act like this is a team full of kids and we should just be happy they are trying. Most of the players on this team are 24 and older with significant NHL experience:
The problem with your statement is that there is no basis in fact. You are guilty of what another around here is, you are listening to that little voice in your mind and not trying to understand what is being written. You are full of assumptions.

Just because I understand what is happening, that doesn't mean I am happy with it. I already explained in another post what is going to happen and what my expectations were for this year.

Through all of this you are so wrapped up in holding on that bone you are missing the overall point.

I'll lead you to the water, but it is up to you to drink. In this case see the other side.

Just because I am not jumping off the virtual cliff, unlike you and your hourly rants, that doesn't mean I am happy with our performance. That simply means I can look at this team realistically and curb my expectations. I've said the longest time now that we don't have a true 1/2 pairing. We don't. We keep relying on players playing above their roles. It's not a mystery why these things happen.

I don't think our top 4 on defense will be our top 4 two years from now.

I never said I was happy, nor did I saw you should be happy. However, saying Tyutin is the worst d-man in the NHL is just foolish.

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01-30-2013, 01:40 PM
  #443
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post

Just because we aren't the most talented team, doesn't mean we can't at least play smart. We could have won last night's game, and we could have won the Chicago game if our veteran, highly paid players, either didn't hand the other team the puck and give them easy scoring chances, or put up some production themselves.
The bolded is a truism.

The second part is of course right, but for as much as you acknowledge extenuating circumstances in your posts, they never seem to inform your very high standards. This is a young team with no practices, new to each other, and they flew yesterday, and it was the second of a back to back. As has been noted, how often have Moore and Tyutin been paired together? (3rd goal)

Yet they came back from a two-goal deficit on the road.

I can hear you already, I'm just making excuses and I'm pleased with mediocrity.

I'm not surprised to find myself agreeing with the Mayor. Look beyond the record, this is a different team than what we're accustomed to- or look at the record, too, I believe they have more points through 6 games than last year. Personally, I still can't shake last season when it seemed like every game was a certain loss. This year will likely show more losses than wins but I predict the losses won't be like last season, and we'll be encouraged by the performance of the new guys. Or at least some of us will.

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01-30-2013, 02:46 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
We also averaged giving up three goals a game. The Blues, who drafted Alex Pietrangelo over Nikita Filatov, averaged less than two goals against per game. Their highest scorer was David Backes with 24 goals and 54 points. They had the second best record in the league while ranking 21st in goals per game.
And? did the blues already have an abundance of good-great defensive prospects and no scoring? Nope. but thats columbus sitution

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01-30-2013, 03:12 PM
  #445
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Maybe they were tired or likely but effort level was so bad for the first two periods.. shot amounts reflect this. Then they started to pick it up and put on a good fight. Outside of that Koivu line they kept Wild in bay.

Mason was ok/above average. I don't blame him for the loss though he could have saved a goal there but it is what it is. IMO he was better than Bäckström on the other side.

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01-30-2013, 04:47 PM
  #446
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Maybe they were tired or likely but effort level was so bad for the first two periods.. shot amounts reflect this. Then they started to pick it up and put on a good fight. Outside of that Koivu line they kept Wild in bay.

Mason was ok/above average. I don't blame him for the loss though he could have saved a goal there but it is what it is. IMO he was better than Bäckström on the other side.

If I remember correctly going into last nights game the rest of the Wild had something like 3 goals or so. Outside of the Koivu line they could all be Jackets.

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01-30-2013, 04:55 PM
  #447
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I hear what you're saying, I was mostly trying to point out that you couldn't blame Mason for that goal.
Other teams have goalies that make that save in clutch situations more often than not. Why can't we have one? Or are my expectations too high because those other goalies are stopping US?!?

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01-30-2013, 05:17 PM
  #448
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This gave me a good 10 minutes of laughter on a day when I sorely needed it. You rule, JJJ!

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Originally Posted by joshjoshjosh View Post
Natalie is beautiful. I dunno what you guys are talking about.

"30th, and last" on the penalty kill. Thanks for clarifying Rimer... I keep forgetting that Winnipeg was relocation and not expansion.

Drink every time the Suter/Parise free agent signing is mentioned. DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY DURING THE SUTER/PARISE DRINKING GAME

Oh Steve Mason is starting? LoL this should be good.

Drink every time Mason stares at the rafters after a softie. DO NOT OPERATE HEAVY MACHINERY DURING THE STEVE MASON DRINKING GAME

Prospal makin' moves! I like it.

**** Coach Q

Starting with the 2009 season, I haven't missed a single game. And I don't remember a "centering feed" ever working. But it always gets Rimer excited

Terrible goal.

I have Koivu and Heatley on my fantasy team, so that's cool I guess.

Falk reminds me of Malk... like in that episode of The Simpsons... now with Vitamin R!

"You're worse than Mason!" <-- four words that sparked the Gillies fight.

This PK has moxie! It's got spunk! The right stuff!

OH MY GOD THIS GOALIE IS TERRIBLE PLEASE GO AWAY AND NEVER PLAY FOR COLUMBUS AGAIN

I trust by now you all clearly understand my feelings on the goalie situation.

I'm sleepy. And this game isn't very engaging.

Umberger sucks.

No offense.

Boll got one pretty good shot in that I saw

This is going to be another shutout.

Paging offensive zone pressure... offensive zone pressure... please report to the ice surface... paging offensive zone pressure...

People are saying that DJ Minor Penalty is getting too many minutes but IMO nobody else is playing well enough to take those minutes from him

If you refuse to score and make this game competitive please feel free to let Koivu get 5 or 6 goals cause like I said he's on my fantasy team

Why is Johnson with Tyutin? I'm confused

IT'S ABOUT TIME. Great things happen when you get second chance shots. Wish they'd get more

For crying out loud.

So what's up with this review?

He pounded fists with the puck! LoL I don't think you can do that.

But they still aren't gonna overturn this. Because of my persecution complex.

LoL and the home crowd is shocked.

If we got points for shooting the puck at a defenseman's shins we would be golden.

Nikitin "dodged a break" /facepalm

For real though. Somebody give Natalie my phone number

Well they're looking a lot better so far in the third. I have a good feeling.

Power Play! Translation: Fast forward two minutes

Why the **** is Umberger on the power play?

Great! Another power play. Way to kill the momentum we were building up in the o-zone.

I find my ability to follow the game diminished after scotch #4

erhi sklhjklstrjhdkl'rhjaekdfhjaSKLgjKLSHRJKASedG'sjkld egk"ljsdg'JKsgdJS"kljGZSKLD'DG

JMFJ. JMFJ. JMFJ.

Okay now don't allow a goal before they're done announcing yours. Repeat after me: I will not allow a goal before they're done announcing ours

MASON ON THE BACKCHECK THIS WILL GO WELL

Ok so the Jackets are really dominating the third.

That was deflected...

Ok nevermind it wasn't

Gj Moore. WAKE THE **** UP TYUTIN. WAKE. THE. ****. UP. disgusting.

This escalted quickly.

Mason was serviceable there, gotta give credit. NOW MAN THE **** UP AND SCORE THE TYING GOAL

I think he was looking five-hole too... because he shot it at the five-hole... but that's just me.

I want to believe that they can score on this PP and tie it up. I want to believe. But I don't.

Well seeing as how there's only five minutes left on my GCL feed I guess we don't score.

Get your sticks down!

GET YOUR STICKS DOWN

And that's that.


What did I do in a past life to deserve rooting for this team?

In conclusion, trade Umberger and Mason. Trade them yesterday. This team only moves forwards without them.

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01-30-2013, 07:02 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Other teams have goalies that make that save in clutch situations more often than not. Why can't we have one? Or are my expectations too high because those other goalies are stopping US?!?
Yeah, your expectations might be too high. We clearly still have a country club atmosphere inside Mason's helmet. Other teams also don't have Umberger and Dorsett, 2 third liners, playing on their top line due to a giant LOFT coefficient. We need to bring in more aging veteran leadership to help guide our team I think. And we should probably trade away RyJo before he shows himself to be a bust too, he obviously is one since we drafted him. I'm thinking we may be able to trade him to Edmonton for anyone who isn't Jordan Eberle...


Just trying to cause a Viqsi meltdown

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01-30-2013, 07:12 PM
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FANonymous View Post

Just trying to cause a Viqsi meltdown
I see what you did there!

Wonder if it's too late to rename The R Bar to The L.O.F.T.?

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