Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Sbisa + DSP/Holland is a pretty good trade for both sides. But the Avs wouldn't do it unless they knew for sure Oreilly wasn't coming back.
Sbisa + Etem for Oreilly+ would also be interesting from both sides.
Just in case there has been a misunderstanding here, I don't think any of us Ducks fans think that you would do that if you think you can sign him. We understand that the best case scenario here is keeping O'Reilly.
For that kind of certainty, I think that you need to get him signed, but if you have him signed it's not like you'd be looking to move him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen
I don't think you're going to get a top 2 dman for an unsigned 2nd line center
I don't know which team would even want to give up anything significant in trading for RoR without having talks with the agent and basically coming to a contract agreement FIRST.
Who the hell is going to trade good assets for a "maybe we'll be able to get him signed" type of scenario???
I don't believe the deal exists in just trading his 'rights' because in that case, the return wouldn't justify trading him.
I don't know which team would even want to give up anything significant in trading for RoR without having talks with the agent and basically coming to a contract agreement FIRST.
Who the hell is going to trade good assets for a "maybe we'll be able to get him signed?"
I don't believe the deal exists, in just trading his 'rights' because the return wouldn't justify trading him.
Boston got two first round picks and a 2nd. Those picks weren't the 2nd, 9th, and 32nd overall at the time of that trade. Do you want draft picks? Because that seems like an even bigger gamble to me. Maybe you'll get as lucky as they did, but I wouldn't count on it.
Toronto knew the deal Kessel wanted and they knew that he would sign with them. They had those assurances already.
I still don't get where there is an argument here... I agree on the assurances and what your saying about the non-contract not being an issue. I think maybe we differ on what we see as O'Reilly's actual value (Regardless of contract, as long as it's a reasonable contract that is worked out of course.).
As far as the value of those picks goes... Pretty much EVERYONE was like omg, Boston just got two lottery picks out of that trade. Oh and pretty much another 1st rounder.
Yes I would take two 1st round picks for O'Reilly, if they are coming from a lottery team. For me to consider a trade of potential based players for O'Reilly from ANA. It would need to be Sbisa + Etem/Palmeiri for O'Reilly + (Something SMALL) 2nd round pick small...
Agree with that value or not, that's how much value he has IMO.
I still don't get where there is an argument here... I agree on the assurances and what your saying about the non-contract not being an issue. I think maybe we differ on what we see as O'Reilly's actual value (Regardless of contract, as long as it's a reasonable contract that is worked out of course.).
As far as the value of those picks goes... Pretty much EVERYONE was like omg, Boston just got two lottery picks out of that trade.
Yes I would take two top 10 picks for O'Reilly. For me to consider a trade of potential based players for O'Reilly from ANA. It would need to be Sbisa + Etem/Palmeiri for O'Reilly + (Something SMALL) 2nd round pick small...
Agree with that value or not, that's how much value he has IMO.
Do you think Toronto thought they were giving up two lottery picks for Kessel? There's some serious revisionism going on with your take on that trade.
Also, I have no idea why you seem to think Holland is unacceptable, even though he outplayed the two wingers that you're okay with.
Just in case there has been a misunderstanding here, I don't think any of us Ducks fans think that you would do that if you think you can sign him. We understand that the best case scenario here is keeping O'Reilly.
Yea I figured you guys knew that, was just pointing out the Avs point of view in it.
Like you said best case scenario for the Avs would easily be just to sign him to a solid 3.5-4M bridge contract now and see what he can bring over those 2-3 years for us.
But if that just absolutely cant happen, and the two sides just wont agree to anything, then trading him would be the only option.
And like both sides seem to agree upno, Something around Sbisa + Forward prospect would be a good basis for a deal. Now who that prospect is has varied from many fans of both ANA and COL, but generally it seems to be DSP/Holland/Etem.
I still don't get where there is an argument here... I agree on the assurances and what your saying about the non-contract not being an issue. I think maybe we differ on what we see as O'Reilly's actual value (Regardless of contract, as long as it's a reasonable contract that is worked out of course.).
As far as the value of those picks goes... Pretty much EVERYONE was like omg, Boston just got two lottery picks out of that trade. Oh and pretty much another 1st rounder.
Yes I would take two 1st round picks for O'Reilly, if they are coming from a lottery team. For me to consider a trade of potential based players for O'Reilly from ANA. It would need to be Sbisa + Etem/Palmeiri for O'Reilly + (Something SMALL) 2nd round pick small...
Agree with that value or not, that's how much value he has IMO.
Come on, I'm with Exit Dose; that's revisionist history.
Do you think Toronto thought they were giving up two lottery picks for Kessel? There's some serious revisionism going on with your take on that trade.
Also, I have no idea why you seem to think Holland is unacceptable, even though he outplayed the two wingers that you're okay with.
Holland vs Etem, I like Etem's scoring upside better. It's a lot harder to break into the league as a center than as a wing.
I just view Etem as a bit more valuable, especially when it comes to our needs.
As for revisionism... yeah it may not have been as strong as I made it out to be but there were plenty of people skeptical as to how competitive Toronto was going to be. I'll take the hit on that one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Getz2perry
I dont feel like going through the reasons why ryan isnt going to be traded unless perry is signed.
But if we were trading ryan id think wed trade him straight up for a 2c and just keep sbisa.
I don't think many people actually believe ANA will trade Ryan for a #2C anyways, but yeah Ryan is more than enough without adding for a #2 center.
I'm not so willing to call Sbisa a top 4 defenseman yet. He's been in that role at times, and even done well there, but there hasn't been enough consistency for me to say that, yes, he's actually a top 4 defenseman. The potential is absolutely there though, and he could be one by the time this season is over.
To be honest, I'm not quite as unwilling to move Etem either. Don't get me wrong, I'd think long and hard about it, but the Ducks have been searching for a young #2 center for some time. If Etem was the deal breaker for Colorado, I'd probably do it. ...but, I'm not sure I'd do Sbisa and Etem. I think Anaheim is giving up a lot of cap flexibility there, not to mention a lot of talent, and to do it for an unsigned player, I'm just not sure about that.
I'd hold out for Sbisa and Palmieri even though I know it wouldn't happen. O'Reilly is too important to our team to make a trade which didn't address more than one need.
We're not letting go of Vatanen. I want to see him throw bombs off the pt with Souray. And we're not trading Etem or Rakell. We finally have speed on the 4th line. I don't think the ducks need to make a move unless its a 2nd line center. We have **** gelling here. I am pretty stoked to what BB and BM called up.
The management is finally doing its job for scouting lines. Finding speed and offensive presence in a fourth line role. Well we found it. Even if its a rookie line.
We're not letting go of Vatanen. I want to see him throw bombs off the pt with Souray. And we're not trading Etem or Rakell. We finally have speed on the 4th line. I don't think the ducks need to make a move unless its a 2nd line center. We have **** gelling here. I am pretty stoked to what BB and BM called up.
The management is finally doing its job for scouting lines. Finding speed and offensive presence in a fourth line role. Well we found it. Even if its a rookie line.
Yeah Vatanen wouldn't be moved, as he'd be Sbisa's likely replacement in the lineup. If the Ducks do make a move for RoR, I think the final deal would be:
To Anaheim: RoR + 4th rounder
To Colorado: Sbisa + Holland
What are we supposed to do with Bonino if we get ROR? Do we send Rakell down? Move him for a pick? Include him in the trade to Col? He had 18 points in 50 games which is a pace for just under 30 which is reasonable 3rd line points and he did it as a rookie. What is his value at as far as Col is concerned? Bonino, Palmieri and a 3rd? There could be an argument for their pre-existing chemistry. Just curious.
J. Staal got the 8th overall a 3rd line center and another prospect. ROR isn't nearly as established as Staal was so the price in my mind goes down from there. Obviously Pamlieri isn't 8th overall and Bonino isn't Sutter but I don't think you can expect value near what Pit got for Staal for ROR.
