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Should the Toronto Maple Leafs "Blow it up"?

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01-30-2013, 07:46 PM
  #276
Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
See it is possible to think the Leafs are headed in a good direction when you don't consider every player "Garbage".
That's fine to have an opinion like that but most people generally can look at the reality of the situation the Leafs are in and develop an opinion that is different than that.

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01-30-2013, 07:47 PM
  #277
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
See it is possible to think the Leafs are headed in a good direction when you don't consider every player "Garbage".
But the results show the opposite. Burke never made the playoffs as Leafs GM and your prospect pool isn't even considered average league-wide, it's in the bottom half. Is it also possible that Burke has indeed collected a pile of garbage ? A "true" Leaf fan has NO RIGHTS to think you're a long way off ?

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01-30-2013, 07:47 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If I thought the Habs were in as big a rush to make the playoffs as Toronto I think we would have seen more 1st round picks of theirs traded like Toronto.

Toronto has been a playoff try-hard for years.

The Habs just let nature take its course and for that, their management can be commended.

At least they aren't impatient.

I'm hoping Nonis employs a similar strategy after he hopefully erases all ties with Burke's prized players (Kessel and Phaneuf) who are getting us NO WHERE!
This post is just very incorrect. The Habs have been building around UFA's in recent years and have had a much more veteran team. The Leafs have been getting younger and less experienced, and keept trading players for picks and prospects. But you claim the Habs are "Rebuilding" and being patient. Huh?

I'm sure they signed Eric Cole to a big contract to finish 28th overall...

I'm sure they traded for 7 million dollar man Gomez to tank. I'm sure they signed Gionta to tank...

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01-30-2013, 07:47 PM
  #279
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Don't blow up anything. Be patient; stress playing those kids who have now acquired minor league experience; keep Rielly on the farm for a year, maybe two; don't make panic trades that cost the team young assets; hold on to 1st and 2nd round draft choices; stick with Reimer for the time being; draft best available centre; reap eventual benefits.

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01-30-2013, 07:48 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If I thought the Habs were in as big a rush to make the playoffs as Toronto I think we would have seen more 1st round picks of theirs traded like Toronto.

Toronto has been a playoff try-hard for years.

The Habs just let nature take its course and for that, their management can be commended.

At least they aren't impatient.

I'm hoping Nonis employs a similar strategy after he hopefully erases all ties with Burke's prized players (Kessel and Phaneuf) who are getting us NO WHERE!
Gomez trade? That is by far worse than the Kessel trade, no matter how much you hate Kessel. And let's not forget how lucky the Habs are that a 2nd rounder (Subban) developed as nicely as he did. And don't try and tell me that's just good scouting, no that's a HUGE amount of luck, because if anyone saw Subban being that good he would not have lasted until the 43rd pick.

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01-30-2013, 07:50 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
Don't blow up anything. Be patient; stress playing those kids who have now acquired minor league experience; keep Rielly on the farm for a year, maybe two; don't make panic trades that cost the team young assets; hold on to 1st and 2nd round draft choices; stick with Reimer for the time being; draft best available centre; reap eventual benefits.
This guy gets it.

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01-30-2013, 07:50 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
This post is just very incorrect. The Habs have been building around UFA's in recent years and have had a much more veteran team. The Leafs have been getting younger and less experienced, and keept trading players for picks and prospects. But you claim the Habs are "Rebuilding" and being patient. Huh?

I'm sure they signed Eric Cole to a big contract to finish 28th overall...

I'm sure they traded for 7 million dollar man Gomez to tank. I'm sure they signed Gionta to tank...
If I thought the Habs were really trying to make the playoffs, I think we would have seen them trade multiple first round picks away like Brian Burke did.

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01-30-2013, 07:51 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
The team gets bashed because they haven't made the playoffs in what is closing in on a decade...with no end in sight.

Negative reinforcement.
Actually, in Psychology, this would be Positive Punishment. The addition of certain stimulai in the hopes of decreasing a behavior.

Negative Reinforcement would be removing stimulai in the hopes of increasing a behavior. So, for example... If we like it when Toronto Maple Leafs win, a Positive Punishment would be insulting them when they lose. A Negative Reinforcement would be removing the first lines of all the teams they play.


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01-30-2013, 07:53 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If I thought the Habs were really trying to make the playoffs, I think we would have seen them trade multiple first round picks away like Brian Burke did.
Can't come back with a real answer, eh?

The Habs haven't been rebuilding slowly and taking their time ar all. That's ridiculous. They've been extremely active in signing UFA's and gave up some solid young talent for a terrible bust in Gomez.

What about Burke getting Gardiner for Beauchemin? What about getting Colburne, a first and second for Kaberle? (A player, Montreal acquired last year)

I don't see how Burke kept making the team younger how you can claim he desperately wanted to make the playoffs?

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01-30-2013, 07:53 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
This post is just very incorrect. The Habs have been building around UFA's in recent years and have had a much more veteran team. The Leafs have been getting younger and less experienced, and keept trading players for picks and prospects. But you claim the Habs are "Rebuilding" and being patient. Huh?

I'm sure they signed Eric Cole to a big contract to finish 28th overall...

I'm sure they traded for 7 million dollar man Gomez to tank. I'm sure they signed Gionta to tank...
One year. We missed the playoffs one year. Gionta and Gomez have played the Eastern conf finals as habs. Meanwhile we never traded a 1st round pick even when we were going for playoffs pushes and were going to draft at the 20+ rank. And even despite all of that, HF considers Montreal's prospect pool to be the 8th best in the league, while the Leafs' ranks 20th. The Gainey/Gauthier era certainly wasn't the most succesful, but it was far from the disaster that Burke was.

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01-30-2013, 07:54 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If I thought the Habs were in as big a rush to make the playoffs as Toronto I think we would have seen more 1st round picks of theirs traded like Toronto.

Toronto has been a playoff try-hard for years.

The Habs just let nature take its course and for that, their management can be commended.

At least they aren't impatient.

I'm hoping Nonis employs a similar strategy after he hopefully erases all ties with Burke's prized players (Kessel and Phaneuf) who are getting us NO WHERE!
The habs traded away ryan mcdonagh who was drafted in the first round and only got better since they drafted him. That is just as bad as trading away firsts if not worse especially considering it was for a sad attempt to help there offense for a playoff run. That right there tells you how bad the habs management really is. So they clearly were in fact in a "big rush" to make the playoffs otherwise they would not have made one of the worst trades in recent memory.

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01-30-2013, 07:55 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Gomez trade? That is by far worse than the Kessel trade, no matter how much you hate Kessel. And let's not forget how lucky the Habs are that a 2nd rounder (Subban) developed as nicely as he did. And don't try and tell me that's just good scouting, no that's a HUGE amount of luck, because if anyone saw Subban being that good he would not have lasted until the 43rd pick.
Again I have no idea why we are talking about the Habs in a thread about blowing up the Leafs but the Gomez trade is nowhere near as bad as the Kessel deal.

The only reason this is a discussion is because Vsevolod Bobrov is a Habs fan who is making very good points against the Leafs.

There's such a thing called constructive criticism.

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01-30-2013, 07:56 PM
  #288
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Gomez trade? That is by far worse than the Kessel trade, no matter how much you hate Kessel. And let's not forget how lucky the Habs are that a 2nd rounder (Subban) developed as nicely as he did. And don't try and tell me that's just good scouting, no that's a HUGE amount of luck, because if anyone saw Subban being that good he would not have lasted until the 43rd pick.
That is very debatable. Losing McDonagh was bad, but losing Seguin + Hamilton is unforgivable. Sure you have Kessel left, but if he never sees a playoff game as a Leaf, that trade will have been much worse.

Timmins isn't lucky, he's a great scout.

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01-30-2013, 07:56 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
But the results show the opposite. Burke never made the playoffs as Leafs GM and your prospect pool isn't even considered average league-wide, it's in the bottom half. Is it also possible that Burke has indeed collected a pile of garbage ? A "true" Leaf fan has NO RIGHTS to think you're a long way off ?
Prospects aren't everything. What about the young talent on the team that don't count as prospects?

We've already seen Kadri, a 7th overall selection who has 6 points in 6 games described as "Garbage" in this thread, so really, does anyone have the right to tell me I have no idea what's going on with the Leafs?

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01-30-2013, 07:58 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Again I have no idea why we are talking about the Habs in a thread about blowing up the Leafs but the Gomez trade is nowhere near as bad as the Kessel deal.

The only reason this is a discussion is because Vsevolod Bobrov is a Habs fan who is making very good points against the Leafs.

There's such a thing called constructive criticism.
Because you made the ridiculous claim the Habs were building slowing and being patient and not trying for the playoffs.

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01-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by PAZ View Post
Are the Leafs really that down on their team?

I watched 3 games this year and I didn't think they looked that bad. Honestly if you did add Loungo I honestly think you'd be in contentions for the playoffs, with a better chance of making it than not.

While Loungo gets a lot of underserved hate, he'd be worth it imo. His contract is pretty bad, but it's by no means a deal breaker.
This post right here is the problem with the Leafs:

Lets go out and trade young assets for an aging goalie with a massive contract.

It makes no sense for the long term best interests of this team. None.

Would Luongo make the Leafs a playoff team? Maybe. But there is no chance that he will lead them to the Cup, and the assets and cap space that they would give up in any deal would haunt them for a decade just like the silly, impatient trades they made a decade ago that got them in this mess in the first place.

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01-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Can't come back with a real answer, eh?

The Habs haven't been rebuilding slowly and taking their time ar all. That's ridiculous. They've been extremely active in signing UFA's and gave up some solid young talent for a terrible bust in Gomez.

What about Burke getting Gardiner for Beauchemin? What about getting Colburne, a first and second for Kaberle? (A player, Montreal acquired last year)

I don't see how Burke kept making the team younger how you can claim he desperately wanted to make the playoffs?
That is a real answer.

The Habs haven't traded their own first round draft multiple years in a row for immediate help like Brian Burke did with the Leafs, only to watch Boston pick Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton (combined have over double Kessel's points so far this year).

That is the epitome of impatience.

Habs were a playoff team for years before picking Galchenyuk but that didn't stop them from being patient and holding on to their draft picks.

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01-30-2013, 07:59 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
One year. We missed the playoffs one year. Gionta and Gomez have played the Eastern conf finals as habs. Meanwhile we never traded a 1st round pick even when we were going for playoffs pushes and were going to draft at the 20+ rank. And even despite all of that, HF considers Montreal's prospect pool to be the 8th best in the league, while the Leafs' ranks 20th. The Gainey/Gauthier era certainly wasn't the most succesful, but it was far from the disaster that Burke was.
2 years ago HF had the Leafs at 8th. Did you think it was great then? When players graduate you'll have a drop-off. The fact is, the Leafs have a lot of solid young players that aren't considered prospects anymore on their team.

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01-30-2013, 08:00 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Again I have no idea why we are talking about the Habs in a thread about blowing up the Leafs but the Gomez trade is nowhere near as bad as the Kessel deal.

The only reason this is a discussion is because Vsevolod Bobrov is a Habs fan who is making very good points against the Leafs.

There's such a thing called constructive criticism.
The gomez trade is by FAR the worse trade and always will be. It's really not even close.

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01-30-2013, 08:01 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
So the only "real" fans are the ones who blindly follow a failed attempt at building the team ?
Do Leaf fans realize you can be a "real" fan of your team and still criticize them, it doesn't make you any less of a fan, in fact, it probably makes you more of a fan because you won't be satisfied with continuous failure.

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01-30-2013, 08:01 PM
  #296
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ahhaha even if the leafs wanted to rebuild, and after signing lupal it doesn't look like it, they would take at least 5 years.

There organization is such a mess right now.

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01-30-2013, 08:02 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
That is a real answer.

The Habs haven't traded their own first round draft multiple years in a row for immediate help like Brian Burke did with the Leafs, only to watch Boston pick Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton (combined have over double Kessel's points so far this year).

That is the epitome of impatience.

Habs were a playoff team for years before picking Galchenyuk but that didn't stop them from being patient and holding on to their draft picks.
So you think the Habs were trying to finish top 5 and were building slowly?

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01-30-2013, 08:02 PM
  #298
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Prospects aren't everything. What about the young talent on the team that don't count as prospects?

We've already seen Kadri, a 7th overall selection who has 6 points in 6 games described as "Garbage" in this thread, so really, does anyone have the right to tell me I have no idea what's going on with the Leafs?
Sure you have Kadri, Bozak and mr. overrated (Gardiner), but we have MaxPac, Subban, DD, Eller, Diaz, etc. I think you're just dilusional towards your own team and downright clueless mine. It's ok, I'll laugh when you'll compare Leafs to newfound basement teams while the habs will compete for playoffs spots.

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01-30-2013, 08:03 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by rune74 View Post
ahhaha even if the leafs wanted to rebuild, and after signing lupal it doesn't look like it, they would take at least 5 years.

There organization is such a mess right now.
3-3 with a very young team and lots of cap room. Yeah what a mess

It's funny on HF the Leafs are the biggest mess.

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01-30-2013, 08:03 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
That is a real answer.

The Habs haven't traded their own first round draft multiple years in a row for immediate help like Brian Burke did with the Leafs, only to watch Boston pick Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton (combined have over double Kessel's points so far this year).

That is the epitome of impatience.

Habs were a playoff team for years before picking Galchenyuk but that didn't stop them from being patient and holding on to their draft picks.
They only made a worse trade that set there team back far worse then the kessel trade, the habs were not patient at all, otherwise they would not have traded away there best prospect.

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