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Jarome Iginla and Cory Sarich to Pittsburgh

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:36 PM
  #26
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
What is it about Canadian teams exhaustively over valuing their players?







First of all, behind Morrow, I believe Harrington is our most valuable d prospect. He will fill a MUCH NEEDED gap and give us something we've been missing since 08-09...a shutdown dman. To get him...yeah its gonna take quite a bit. Certainly more than an aged Iginla. No offense.

Going the other way you're looking at a roster player, prospect, and a pick. TK + Dumoulin + 2nd is the type of package you will see. With the draft rules changing, I think you will see 1st's become much more valuable even in weak drafts.

2 premier Pen's D-prospects and 1 (or 2!!!!) 1st's...that is garbage and Shero would never mortgage the future for that return. Not a chance. The Iggy of 10 years ago, probably. 5 years ago, maybe. Today? No.

Given what I've seen Flame's fans wanting in return for Iggy, I believe you are going to be VERY disappointed in what you get in the event he is traded.
A 3rd liner a decent prospect and a 2nd for iginla and Sarich (sarich alone is worth a 2nd) . Maatta + 1st is what it would take to get Iginla there will be 10+ teams want Iginla and the draft rules only make teams who miss the playoffs worth more not Pitts.

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:41 PM
  #27
Some Other Flame
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
What is it about Canadian teams exhaustively over valuing their players?







First of all, behind Morrow, I believe Harrington is our most valuable d prospect. He will fill a MUCH NEEDED gap and give us something we've been missing since 08-09...a shutdown dman. To get him...yeah its gonna take quite a bit. Certainly more than an aged Iginla. No offense.

Going the other way you're looking at a roster player, prospect, and a pick. TK + Dumoulin + 2nd is the type of package you will see. With the draft rules changing, I think you will see 1st's become much more valuable even in weak drafts.

2 premier Pen's D-prospects and 1 (or 2!!!!) 1st's...that is garbage and Shero would never mortgage the future for that return. Not a chance. The Iggy of 10 years ago, probably. 5 years ago, maybe. Today? No.

Given what I've seen Flame's fans wanting in return for Iggy, I believe you are going to be VERY disappointed in what you get in the event he is traded.
I think the better question is what's going on with the drinking water in Pittsburgh to make their fans actually think other teams will just gift them their best wingers for the Penguins trash and spare parts?

If Iginla is traded to the Penguins, not only will their fans be shocked at the price, they'll set the record for the quickest turn around when they start saying they picked up Iginla at a bargain.

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01-30-2013, 07:55 PM
  #28
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James Neal for Jarome Iginla.

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Old
01-30-2013, 07:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Deen View Post
James Neal for Jarome Iginla.
This makes no sense for Pitts they want Iginla round out the top 6 not simply swap Neal with Iggy.

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01-30-2013, 08:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
This makes no sense for Pitts they want Iginla round out the top 6 not simply swap Neal with Iggy.
Would throw in Brodie as well..

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Deen View Post
James Neal for Jarome Iginla.
It makes sense to trade a 25 year old for a 35 year old but only if Mike Milbury is the GM.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:31 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
What is it about Canadian teams exhaustively over valuing their players?







First of all, behind Morrow, I believe Harrington is our most valuable d prospect. He will fill a MUCH NEEDED gap and give us something we've been missing since 08-09...a shutdown dman. To get him...yeah its gonna take quite a bit. Certainly more than an aged Iginla. No offense.

Going the other way you're looking at a roster player, prospect, and a pick. TK + Dumoulin + 2nd is the type of package you will see. With the draft rules changing, I think you will see 1st's become much more valuable even in weak drafts.

2 premier Pen's D-prospects and 1 (or 2!!!!) 1st's...that is garbage and Shero would never mortgage the future for that return. Not a chance. The Iggy of 10 years ago, probably. 5 years ago, maybe. Today? No.

Given what I've seen Flame's fans wanting in return for Iggy, I believe you are going to be VERY disappointed in what you get in the event he is traded.
Exhaustively overvaluing Iginla? That's funny, you are extensively undervaluing his value yourself. No, Iginla is not worth Morrow + 2 1st's, but he is certainly worth FAR more than your proposal suggests.

I don't care how old he is, he is still a top end first line winger. That is what you are paying for, a star player. A third line player, and a B level prospect is an atrocious offer plain and simple.

Trade talks start with atleast one of Morrow/Bennett/Pouliot/Despres/Maata + 1st. If the Penguins are not willing to part with a top five prospect in their organization + a late first round pick then negotiations won't even begin to take place.

And by the way, Iginla ten years ago is arguably the most dominant player in the world. He would be as untouchable as Malkin is today.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:32 PM
  #33
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If Iggy's moved, I'm calling Maatta, Tangradi + 1st

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01-30-2013, 08:46 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
If Iggy's moved, I'm calling Maatta, Tangradi + 1st
Realistic.

I still hold that you will rarely see 1st's traded unless that team is at the top of the standings and has about a 99% chance of making the playoffs.

With 17-30 all having a chance at 1st overall...the value of a 1st went up dramatically. With that, you'll see higher profile deals go down that involve firsts.

For example: Christensen, Armstong, Esposito, and a 1st for Hossa and Dupuis would more likely be Christensen, Army, Espo, and a 2nd or 3rd for Hossa and Dupuis. Or a 2nd coming back from Atlanta or something.

2 1sts for an aging upcoming UFA? When has a deal like that EVER gone down? On par with the Despres + 2 1sts for Hemsky at the deadline when he was a upcoming UFA.

Come on guys...the Thorton trade...the Hossa trade...the Heatley trade...the Nash trade...have they taught you NOTHING!!??

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
Exhaustively overvaluing Iginla? That's funny, you are extensively undervaluing his value yourself. No, Iginla is not worth Morrow + 2 1st's, but he is certainly worth FAR more than your proposal suggests.

I don't care how old he is, he is still a top end first line winger. That is what you are paying for, a star player. A third line player, and a B level prospect is an atrocious offer plain and simple.

Trade talks start with atleast one of Morrow/Bennett/Pouliot/Despres/Maata + 1st. If the Penguins are not willing to part with a top five prospect in their organization + a late first round pick then negotiations won't even begin to take place.

And by the way, Iginla ten years ago is arguably the most dominant player in the world. He would be as untouchable as Malkin is today.


Good luck with all that...

1. Not overvaluing or undervaluing anyone...I'm simply realistic given the last major trades involving All Stars...they NEVER go for as much as this board says they do.

2. TK is top 6 capable and Dumoulin is hardly a "B-Prospect". But yeah lets forget about the pick I offered too.

3. It might start there...but its going no further than that. Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot, and maybe even Bennett are off the table. They have more value to us moving forward than Iggy would.

4. Iggy was good back in the day...but not Jagr good. At that time Jagr >> Iggy.

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:59 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Maatta + Harrington + 2nd/becomes a first if Iginla resigns

If Iginla is made available there will be a massive bidding war
Which means that will not be enough. Likely 2 players + certain pick (2nd or 3rd) and a conditional pick if resigned.

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01-30-2013, 09:00 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post


Good luck with all that...

1. Not overvaluing or undervaluing anyone...I'm simply realistic given the last major trades involving All Stars...they NEVER go for as much as this board says they do.

2. TK is top 6 capable and Dumoulin is hardly a "B-Prospect". But yeah lets forget about the pick I offered too.

3. It might start there...but its going no further than that. Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot, and maybe even Bennett are off the table. They have more value to us moving forward than Iggy would.

4. Iggy was good back in the day...but not Jagr good. At that time Jagr >> Iggy.
Do you understand how rental trades work? They are for winning the Cup the season they are made, not about value "going forward".

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01-30-2013, 09:03 PM
  #38
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I think with the likely bidding war that would ensure that the Pens would be looking at a minimum of their 2013 1st and Morrow for Iginla alone.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by roboninja View Post
Do you understand how rental trades work? They are for winning the Cup the season they are made, not about value "going forward".
No...explain them to me...

So the Penguins give up 2 premier d prospects and their 1st for Iggy. Penguins don't win cup, Iggy signs elsewhere, Penguins are out the 2 d prospects they desperately need.

Yeah...excellent asset management...

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01-30-2013, 09:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post


Good luck with all that...

1. Not overvaluing or undervaluing anyone...I'm simply realistic given the last major trades involving All Stars...they NEVER go for as much as this board says they do.

2. TK is top 6 capable and Dumoulin is hardly a "B-Prospect". But yeah lets forget about the pick I offered too.

3. It might start there...but its going no further than that. Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot, and maybe even Bennett are off the table. They have more value to us moving forward than Iggy would.

4. Iggy was good back in the day...but not Jagr good. At that time Jagr >> Iggy.
1. How is asking for a top five prospect in an organization + late first round pick for a star player unrealistic? That falls right in line with nearly every comparable trade in the past half a decade.

2. Tyler Kennedy is not a go to top six player. He may have the ability to play that role in a pinch, but he is certainly not a player that you want to consistently rely upon to produce offensively. Maybe calling Brian Dumoulin a "B level prospect" is unfair, but he is by no means has an overwhelming upside or is a sure bet to be anything more than a bottom pairing defender at this point in time. I presumed your offer was based on the OP's proposal which included Sarich. I value him at around a 2nd round pick. I did not ignore it, but either way the offer falls short.

3. Obviously the Penguins are higher on certain prospects within their organization, but if they are serious in landing a player of Iginla's caliber then they cannot have a list of five or six prospects that they would be unwilling to move. That is where the negotiations begin as you said. We can both agree on that.

4. Well this debate is certainly not necessary for this thread, but ten years ago Iginla was coming off a season at the age of 24 in which he led the NHL in points by six, and goals by eleven. He was about as untouchable of a player as you would find at the time.

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01-30-2013, 09:23 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
No...explain them to me...

So the Penguins give up 2 premier d prospects and their 1st for Iggy. Penguins don't win cup, Iggy signs elsewhere, Penguins are out the 2 d prospects they desperately need.

Yeah...excellent asset management...
If pittsburgh does not think Iginla helps them win the cup, then they shouldn't do the trade.

If they do, then they should. The point of sports is to try to win, not collect prospects.

(on a side note: this is something I never understood about collective HF... yes lets tank and get prospects! so much better than trying to win!)

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01-30-2013, 09:25 PM
  #42
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I'd suspect Calgary would want Sutter coming back. Plus a 1st and one of the quality D prospects.

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01-30-2013, 09:28 PM
  #43
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I'd suspect Calgary would want Sutter coming back. Plus a 1st and one of the quality D prospects.
absolutely not, then.

luckily a lot of Calgary fans in here didn't want Sutter and would have been content with a big D-man prospect and a 1st rounder.

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01-30-2013, 09:37 PM
  #44
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absolutely not, then.

luckily a lot of Calgary fans in here didn't want Sutter and would have been content with a big D-man prospect and a 1st rounder.
Luckily? It's not like fan perception will affect how much the return is.

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01-30-2013, 09:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
No...explain them to me...

So the Penguins give up 2 premier d prospects and their 1st for Iggy. Penguins don't win cup, Iggy signs elsewhere, Penguins are out the 2 d prospects they desperately need.

Yeah...excellent asset management...
That's the risk of a rental trade. Get over it, that's what iginla is worth. He is still a top end 1st liner.

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Old
01-30-2013, 09:39 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Realistic.

I still hold that you will rarely see 1st's traded unless that team is at the top of the standings and has about a 99% chance of making the playoffs.

With 17-30 all having a chance at 1st overall...the value of a 1st went up dramatically. With that, you'll see higher profile deals go down that involve firsts.

For example: Christensen, Armstong, Esposito, and a 1st for Hossa and Dupuis would more likely be Christensen, Army, Espo, and a 2nd or 3rd for Hossa and Dupuis. Or a 2nd coming back from Atlanta or something.

2 1sts for an aging upcoming UFA? When has a deal like that EVER gone down? On par with the Despres + 2 1sts for Hemsky at the deadline when he was a upcoming UFA.

Come on guys...the Thorton trade...the Hossa trade...the Heatley trade...the Nash trade...have they taught you NOTHING!!??
I guess it depends how you look at it. I see my proposal breaking down as follows, Maatta= B prospect(assuming A prospects are elite prospect), Tangradi= a big, young, third liner, with potential and a late 1st. If that kind of package is too much for Iggy we may as well just keep him. If the Pen's finish 17-30, they're more than one player away and probably not in the market for Iggy

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01-30-2013, 09:39 PM
  #47
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That's the risk of a rental trade. Get over it, that's what iginla is worth. He is still a top end 1st liner.
I'm still trying to get overthat he called Harrington a premier defense prospect. A good prospect sure, but definitely not premier.

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01-30-2013, 09:45 PM
  #48
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I'd suspect Calgary would want Sutter coming back. Plus a 1st and one of the quality D prospects.
your suspicion is insane.

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01-30-2013, 09:52 PM
  #49
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I'd suspect Calgary would want Sutter coming back. Plus a 1st and one of the quality D prospects.
LOL!!!!! How is this? Sutter+Neal+1st+Despres for Iginla?

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01-30-2013, 09:58 PM
  #50
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If the Pen's had to move a key roster player to acquire him, the deal wouldn't even be discussed. The whole point of this is that Pittsburgh has the prospects to add another high end roster player

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