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Alain Vigneault Discussion - Part 2

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01-30-2013, 04:10 PM
  #926
Scurr
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Hard to do that without having the personnel, don't you think?
Definitely. Schroeder might be that guy. He's playing darn well for a young guy given the competition he's faced, it'll be interesting to see what he does with the matchups he gets when Kesler is back.

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01-30-2013, 04:15 PM
  #927
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It's funny about Sutter of La kings the man who many blame for hurting flames with player manouvers.Same man who was out of work for a few years.Team has trouble scoring goals in his seasons as coach.But some how he wins cup and now considered a genious by media.Strange is it not
No, he hurt the team as GM. Flames fans felt the worst move he made was to come out from behind the bench. And he was out of work because he was still under contract with the Flames.

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01-30-2013, 04:17 PM
  #928
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I disagree, the way I see it the Sharks are way more skilled then Van. We have significantly better goaltending but other then that they are stronger up the middle have better snipers and way more forward depth.
They have better snipers and more talent in the top 6, but I actually think we're deeper offensively than them.

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01-30-2013, 04:30 PM
  #929
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Being under contract does not mean a coach cannot find employment else where many examples as for his coaching he destroys creatively and his coaching style was considered boring.

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01-30-2013, 04:32 PM
  #930
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Uh, LA last year?

Ridiculously small sample size there. The anecdotal evidence actually supports the idea that long-term coaches don't win, but it's hard to base conclusions on either of those things. Coaching changes result in a short-term bump, but most of the difference isn't felt until the next season. Firing AV this year doesn't make sense given the shortened schedule. I would have done it last summer, but Gillis has attached his boat to that anchor already.
Agreed. There's been research on the short term effects of this too actually, but over the long term a poor team will still regress to being a poor team. But for a good team - PIT, PHI, LA - that's struggling though? It might well get them over the hump.

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01-30-2013, 05:26 PM
  #931
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The blame for what, exactly? We've been a good to great defensive team in the regular season and playoffs in Bowness tenure.

The defence is making mistakes, lots of them. I think it has to do with how demanding we are on defensemen and I'm willing to put up with that because that style is much more appealing and more effective in the long run.
For what I described in the quote you replied to. Backing too deep into our own goaltender to name a single example, a poor play that every defenceman on our team has been guilty of this season and seasons past indicating that coaching is behind their reluctance to force the play at the blueline. I know it is intentional because to assume otherwise means that the coaches aren't paying attention. I have more respect for them than that despite what my criticisms indicate. Bowness has positive attributes, but IMO they are outweighed by the negatives. While yes, run and gun is appealing to watch, it isn't as effective as playing solid defence IMO. I have seen enough run and gun Canuck games, we need to win a championship.

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01-30-2013, 06:27 PM
  #932
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What is Vigneault doing playing Lapierre and Schroeder if they are hurting, points are less important right now than staying healthy, get those guys out of there! That is my only quibble with AV so far this season.

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01-30-2013, 07:46 PM
  #933
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Fire AV!!

Grab the pitchforks!! Toss me a lighter!! Someone grab a Molotov or 2!

Time to show managment what we really think!!

(Seriously though he better not sit his best players when the game is on the line again tonight, like he did against LA)

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01-30-2013, 08:28 PM
  #934
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Being under contract does not mean a coach cannot find employment else where many examples as for his coaching he destroys creatively and his coaching style was considered boring.
Don't you get tired of being wrong?

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nhl/s...-darryl-sutter

Quote:
The Los Angeles Kings have officially sought permission from Calgary to speak with Darryl Sutter as they look for a new coach, a source told ESPN.com Tuesday.

Sutter is still under contract with the Flames after being let go as general manager last season. The Kings asked for permission Sunday, a day before firing Terry Murray.

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01-30-2013, 08:47 PM
  #935
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Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
For what I described in the quote you replied to. Backing too deep into our own goaltender to name a single example, a poor play that every defenceman on our team has been guilty of this season and seasons past indicating that coaching is behind their reluctance to force the play at the blueline. I know it is intentional because to assume otherwise means that the coaches aren't paying attention. I have more respect for them than that despite what my criticisms indicate. Bowness has positive attributes, but IMO they are outweighed by the negatives. While yes, run and gun is appealing to watch, it isn't as effective as playing solid defence IMO. I have seen enough run and gun Canuck games, we need to win a championship.
I've heard the coaches criticize the D for their gap control, so they are well aware of what you're talking about. I disagree with the run and gun stuff, this has been an excellent defensive team for some time now and the stats speak to that.

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01-30-2013, 09:09 PM
  #936
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Oh geez. We've reached the point where people are claiming the Canucks' coaching staff doesn't know how to teach gap control. I miss the lockout.

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01-30-2013, 09:43 PM
  #937
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Oh geez. We've reached the point where people are claiming the Canucks' coaching staff doesn't know how to teach gap control. I miss the lockout.
I actually think it's completely wrong, too. If anything, sometimes I think on down low plays, Bowness over-favours gap control and removes physicality as a tool from his D, which allows opposition players to move around a bit too freely and make plays. Players like Kane and Thornton have absolutely taken advantage of this in the past.

Not a big deal, but something I've noticed. My biggest issue is how long it takes to incorporate new guys into the defensive scheme. It causes issues when injuries crop up.

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01-30-2013, 09:49 PM
  #938
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We don't really have physical defensemen, though.

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01-31-2013, 12:12 AM
  #939
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So like asking the flames for permission is going to derail sutter oportunity get real?He was not wanted by the organization.Remember Martin the hc of habs was fired but still worked as a scout last year.Know what your talking about?

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01-31-2013, 01:30 AM
  #940
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[Mod: edit]

After Sutter stepped down as Flames GM, he walked away from the club. He kept minimal contact with Feaster and refused attempts at contact with his brother Brent. It would be months before they would reconcile. Sutter burned his bridges with the Flames. He was not going to return to the organization in any capacity.

Sutter's story is nothing like you're trying to frame it.


Last edited by Dado: 01-31-2013 at 08:36 AM. Reason: Play nice, boys.
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Old
01-31-2013, 01:57 AM
  #941
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For the 7-8 game threshold, comparable to the first 10 games of a normal season, it should now be noted that AV _cannot_ now finish the stretch with a losing record. The worst he can do is .500.



So he has averted 6 years of history with is win against COL. Bravo Vinny.



Still want him gone because I feel he is stale option, and a suspect coach in the playoffs, but he has officially bucked the trend so this has to be seen as an "improvement".

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:31 AM
  #942
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Originally Posted by VanEric View Post
We don't really have physical defensemen, though.
I don't really mean crushing guys or anything. I just think when you have opposition players down below the goal line, sometimes if all you do is gap control, it gives smart players too much time and space. It's sort of like how the Sedins pretend in interviews they like when teams play them physically, but when good players do it (Weber in the playoffs two years ago), it actually takes away their ability to make plays.

It's just something I've noticed from time to time. It seems to hurt the team when they're running around.

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01-31-2013, 08:33 AM
  #943
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
For the 7-8 game threshold, comparable to the first 10 games of a normal season, it should now be noted that AV _cannot_ now finish the stretch with a losing record. The worst he can do is .500.
Not really true. If they lose it's still below adjusted .500 (which works out to about .540).

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:36 AM
  #944
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Not really true. If they lose it's still below adjusted .500 (which works out to about .540).

I'm trying to be positive Proto!

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01-31-2013, 09:47 AM
  #945
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I'm trying to be positive Proto!
Fair enough! In that light, Luongo's excellent play is saving Alain Vigneaul from his traditional slow start?

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:47 PM
  #946
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What do you know, HF demands Schroeder in the SO, we finally get him and he wins us the game with his goal.

Also, AV is getting on my last nerve.

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02-01-2013, 11:50 PM
  #947
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Didn't like AV's coaching during the game but thought he picked good shooters. Lappy was worth a shot as he was 4/8 in his careeer.

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02-01-2013, 11:52 PM
  #948
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Yeah I have a hard time taking issue with the shootout selections.

With Kesler injured and the Sedins awful, he took two of the Canucks three most skilled players in the first group.

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:03 AM
  #949
Sergei Shirokov
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Just getting tired of AV constantly sitting back and never making adjustments.

The 2nd line really isn't working offensively and the Schroeder/Raymond line has shown a ton of glimpses. So why not switch Weise with someone and try to give it your best shot at getting some secondary scoring?

Also getting tired of the PP.

He is getting on my last nerve aswell, a change would be beneficial.

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Old
02-02-2013, 03:12 AM
  #950
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Just getting tired of AV constantly sitting back and never making adjustments.

The 2nd line really isn't working offensively and the Schroeder/Raymond line has shown a ton of glimpses. So why not switch Weise with someone and try to give it your best shot at getting some secondary scoring?

Also getting tired of the PP.

He is getting on my last nerve aswell, a change would be beneficial.
No wonder you dislike him so much, he didn't even give you a chance to play

To be serious though, i agree with what you said but too bad he is not going anywhere soon, as long as he is our coach, we will have no chance to win the cup.


Last edited by Vancouver_2010: 02-02-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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