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Old
01-30-2013, 11:25 PM
  #51
McSorleyStick
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Tough choice ........... but I have to go with Halak



JK, I would take Gallo

As someone said, its harder to find a star center than a star goalie


And we have seen some teams win the SC or win their conference with OK goalies - as they their respective rosters were deep enough

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01-30-2013, 11:29 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
Galchenyuk...

Nothing against Price but it is much harder to find a superstar center (hopefully he becomes that) than superstar goalies.
Tell that to the flyers. They've been looking for one since the 80's. They had a superstar centre in Eric Lindros (in his prime), but without the goaltending, he just couldn't bring a championship

No other position can mask other deficiencies as much as the goaltending position, especially when you have a superstar.

Sure, you can win a cup with an okay goalie, but that generally involves a very stacked team. There is no one player that can make up for a mediocre goalie, but a goalie can take a team on his back and go all the way. Montreal is a city that should know all about that.

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01-30-2013, 11:32 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Tell that to the flyers. They've been looking for one since the 80's. They had a superstar centre in Eric Lindros (in his prime), but without the goaltending, he just couldn't bring a championship

No other position can mask other deficiencies as much as the goaltending position, especially when you have a superstar.
Very true

And last season I thought they would win the SC, but Bryz crapped the bed vs NJ.

But in 2010,even though they didnt win the SC, they still went to the Finals with Leightn (although it had a lot to do with Boston choking, and MTL running out of gas )

And Chicago beat them with Niemi; Niemi is a good goalie, but he is no Carey Price

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:37 PM
  #54
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I lean toward Price, but the question mark is playoff performance. Luongo has been among the best goalies in the league for some time, yet has failed to come through in the clutch. Price has not shown yet an ability to steal a playoff game or series. I suspect he'll come through eventually, but just not sure.

Recent history has also shown that it's not necessary to have an elite goalie to win the cup (unless we're defining all goalies who happen to win the cup elite).

Try the same test on other teams with comparable situations. Lundqvist or Richards? Quick or Kopitar?

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:39 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McSorleyStick View Post
Very true

And last season I thought they would win the SC, but Bryz crapped the bed vs NJ.

But in 2010,even though they didnt win the SC, they still went to the Finals with Leightn (although it had a lot to do with Boston choking )

And Chicago beat them with Niemi; Niemi is a good goalie, but he is no Carey Price
Niemi had a very good playoff that year, but Chicago got away with not having a star goalie because the teams was so rich in so many positions. It is a road that can bring you success, but its also a road less traveled because it takes an extraordinary team to get away with it. Same can be said with Detroit in the osgood years.

I'll take the shortcut, and start with a star goalie.

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01-30-2013, 11:43 PM
  #56
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A wiser man then myself said when building a team the first 3 things you build with are a goalie, dman or center, then you fill in the wingers and dmen. Now it doesn't have to be in that order but my vote goes to Price, followed up by Subban and then Gally simply because we haven't seen enough of him yet

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01-31-2013, 07:58 PM
  #57
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If you are going to use the winning of the Stanley Cup as some kind of litmus test to prove a goalie or center is more important as many have done here on both sides it isn't going to work. Teams have won with ok goalies (albeit hot at the time) and teams have won with less than dominant #1 center.

However, history shows that no position, no exceptions, has more of an impact on the fate of a team than the goalie. You can have the fire power to score 8 goals a game but if your goalie is a complete sieve and let's in 10 you still won't win. Your team (forward and dmen) may be the best in the league but the buck (and puck) stops at the goaltender. Detroit would have many more cups in the 1990's and 2000's if they had a patrick roy or even a Mike Richter. Neither the 86 Habs and even less so the 1993 Habs had any business winning the cup from a team point of view but a hot goalie makes a huge difference. Not even Wayne Gretzky could influence the overall fate of a team like a great goalie can. Many cup worthy teams have failed because their goaltending was not good enough. Many non cup worthy teams have won or come close because their goaltending was great.

Underestimate the importance of a goalie and you'll end up being the Flyers...

Having said all that Price has not proven at the NHL level that he is a Brodeur or a Roy but he has at every other level on the way. What has Galchenyuk proven? I hope that both of them prove they are franchise players and I hope Subban becomes half of what Markov has been. Despite how important I believe goaltending is I would have taken Markov in his prime were the scenario different. He is a game changer and greatly underrated by the league in general and many Hab fans because he is not flashy and the difference he makes is subtle. I'm not talking about his 4 goal outburst to start the year either. I'm talking about the stablizing effect he has, the huge PP effect he has. How he can take any D partner you give him and make them play way beyond what they'd be without him. He is a franchise player and had he been healthy the last three years we'd have never missed the playoffs and who knows what might have happened... But he did get hurt and we did finish last and thanks to it we have a better GM and a better coach, and better prospects and a brighter future. My dream is that now it can all come together in the next 3 seasons so that Markov can get what he deserves, a cup as a Hab, to retire as a Hab, and go down as the greatest Hab in the modern era after Roy (for those who are paying attention anyway...)

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02-01-2013, 03:27 AM
  #58
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PK Subban. Doughty, Weber, Chara, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Pronger(when healthy). You could build around a defenseman who can log 30 minutes a game and play in any situation at an elite level. I don't think Subban is quite there yet, but his ceiling is very high. These types of D-men are quite rare. Are LA and Boston Stanley Cup winners without Doughty/Chara? Is Nashville a playoff team without Weber? Is Ottawa a playoff team without Karlsson, and does Spezza (their elite center) produce over 1+ point a game without him? Building around Price isn't too shabby either.

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02-01-2013, 04:30 AM
  #59
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Imo, I don't even understand why Glachenyuk is in the discussion. He's a great rookie and I hope he turns into one of the best centers in the league. But if I were GM of a team and would have to build around a player from the habs...give me a proven one like Carey. Subban would be my 2nd choice

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02-01-2013, 09:32 AM
  #60
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CP without a doubt. Too young and too proven to not be considered the mainstay building block. Playing against Ottawa on Wednesday proved how important he is to us

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02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Tell that to the flyers. They've been looking for one since the 80's. They had a superstar centre in Eric Lindros (in his prime), but without the goaltending, he just couldn't bring a championship

No other position can mask other deficiencies as much as the goaltending position, especially when you have a superstar.

Sure, you can win a cup with an okay goalie, but that generally involves a very stacked team. There is no one player that can make up for a mediocre goalie, but a goalie can take a team on his back and go all the way. Montreal is a city that should know all about that.
Do I need to list the goalies that the flyers have passed over in drafts over the years ? The flyers are not proof that goalies are tough to find more like they made choices that showed that goaltending was less important to them as an organization (or they were incompetent at finding it).

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02-02-2013, 12:44 AM
  #62
Darz
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Carey Price...and imo, it isn't even a contest.

If you asked the other 29 GM's in the league who is the most valuable player on the Montreal Canadiens, I would be absolutely shocked if even one DIDN't say Carey Price.

Gally and Subban have potential to be in the Price category, but Price is already there.

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02-02-2013, 12:47 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darz View Post
Carey Price...and imo, it isn't even a contest.

If you asked the other 29 GM's in the league who is the most valuable player on the Montreal Canadiens, I would be absolutely shocked if even one DIDN't say Carey Price.

Gally and Subban have potential to be in the Price category, but Price is already there.
Eh? Who let you back in here?

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02-02-2013, 12:51 AM
  #64
Darz
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Eh? Who let you back in here?
i come back every now and then.

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02-02-2013, 12:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by ottawa View Post
Imo, I don't even understand why Glachenyuk is in the discussion. He's a great rookie and I hope he turns into one of the best centers in the league. But if I were GM of a team and would have to build around a player from the habs...give me a proven one like Carey. Subban would be my 2nd choice
Proven to what? Choke in the playoffs?

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:59 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Do I need to list the goalies that the flyers have passed over in drafts over the years ? The flyers are not proof that goalies are tough to find more like they made choices that showed that goaltending was less important to them as an organization (or they were incompetent at finding it).
The question is which player you would build this team around. I would take the star goalie in Carey Price.

I chose the flyers as an example for what can happen on a team with a superstar centre (arguably the best centre for a certain period of time) while lacking a star goalie.

The reasons for why they have not been able to find a solution since Ron Hextall in the 80's is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

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02-02-2013, 05:38 AM
  #67
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Maybe trade Subban for skatelaces and bring Lefebrve up on defence instead of wasting his time coaching.Then they can do some really big things for the NHL like selling the Habs to Phoenix thus making Detroit the oldest franchise in hockey.Someone for God's sake wake up and ask why these idiots are ruining the prospects and treating them like a steaming mound of dung!

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