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Old
01-31-2013, 03:21 AM
  #26
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Seriously, you people hate everything about this team... why not pick a new one? Right now the only ****ing thing you're cheering for is the logo.

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01-31-2013, 03:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mant View Post
Seriously, you people hate everything about this team... why not pick a new one? Right now the only ****ing thing you're cheering for is the logo.
Correct for me.
I badly wish I could root for another team. sadly cant, but I sure do hate the management and 99% of the players.

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01-31-2013, 03:45 AM
  #28
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It's Taken Me A While To Come Back Out

I've been silent about this team for a long time now. I used to post here regularly. I don't see a lot of familiar faces I previously recognized. Where is Jori_DSF? Where is RoyIsALegend?

Anyhow, I have to gripe about this team. This organization is a complete failure from top to bottom.

First off, ownership has failed to show a significant interest in this team. Where is Josh Kroenke to answer for this team? Who is to answer for if this team fails to make the playoffs again? Is it Greg Sherman? He's as silent as it gets. is it Pierre Lacroix? He's supposed to be retired by now. Who is accountable for this team failing again if it does?

Second, why is there a lack of veteran leadership on this team? Do we really expect Matt Duchene to be the face of the franchise at this point? He's made significant strides in his game. He's much more physical than he ever was. He can be a treat to watch. But, he can't lead this team. Neither can Paul Stastny. Landeskog tries to lead by example. But, he's injured and is still in his sophomore year.

The more I watch this team, the more I realize this roster doesn't believe in itself. Why are the players so timid to start off games? Why is there no killer instinct? The game against The Canucks is a good example. McGinn can't score into an empty net to save his life. Matt Duchene rushes his shot on the break away and gets stoned five hole. No sustained offensive pressure. Team goes into a shell after letting in the first goal. This failure isn't on the collection of players we have. They simply don't have the confidence they can get it done. This failure is on ownership and the GM. There's no one to guide our young talent.

But, our young players can't be completely absolved either. Barrie's got quite a set of hands. But, he's as weak as it gets. He's got no leg strength and can be beat one on one easily.

Coaching is sometimes suspect too. Why is John Mitchell on left wing? Why does Tyson Barrie play the PK?

I have never been so discouraged to watch this team so far. As Sakic said it himself, we were supposed to see progress this year. Instead, I see more of the same. Slow out of the gate. Soft play. Multiple turn overs. Lack of scoring touch in key moments. Is it Groundhog Day yet?

I dare to make a bold proposal though. If I was Greg Sherman, I would offer up O'Reilly, McGinn and Barrie for Ovechkin. Washington needs more heart and soul players and O'Reilly fits the bill of what they're looking for. He's a Dale Hunter type of player who can play with them for many years. Ovechkin is playing on the fourth line and continues to fall out of favour in Washington. He needs a change of scenery. We need a true sniper to bring some confidence to the team. Washington and Colorado have a good relationship. I think a deal like this makes sense. What do you guys think?


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01-31-2013, 04:04 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
For those dissing Lacroix - he built teams that won us Cups. Sherman has said time and again, this baby is HIS, and that he refers to Lacroix for advice only when he needs it. Lacroix is a passionate Avs man through and through (look at what he did in those playoffs when Foppa was crook !!).

Leave him be guys.
i'm not doubting his passion at all, he has been wonderful for this franchise, but it's time for a new start, new direction we have new stars , well new potential stars, a new breed of players and it doesn't fit with the play that is presented on the ice, i think a fresh outlook would do wonders for our young guns, and moving forward.


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01-31-2013, 04:09 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Super Joe Sakic View Post
I've been silent about this team for a long time now. I used to post here regularly. I don't see a lot of familiar faces I previously recognized. Where is Jori? Where is RoyIsALegend?

Anyhow, I have to gripe about this team. This organization is a complete failure from top to bottom.

First off, ownership has failed to show a significant interest in this team. Where is Josh Kroenke to answer for this team? Who is to answer for if this team fails to make the playoffs again? Is it Greg Sherman? He's as silent as it gets. is it Pierre Lacroix? He's supposed to be retired by now. Who is accountable for this team failing again if it does?

Second, why is there a lack of veteran leadership on this team? Do we really expect Matt Duchene to be the face of the franchise at this point? He's made significant strides in his game. He's much more physical than he ever was. He can be a treat to watch. But, he can't lead this team. Neither can Paul Stastny. Landeskog tries to lead by example. But, he's injured and is still in his sophomore year.

The more I watch this team, the more I realize this roster doesn't believe in itself. Why are the players so timid to start off games? Why is there no killer instinct? The game against The Canucks is a good example. McGinn can't score into an empty net to save his life. Matt Duchene rushes his shot on the break away and gets stoned five hole. No sustained offensive pressure. Team goes into a shell after letting in the first goal. This failure isn't on the collection of players we have. They simply don't have the confidence they can get it done. This failure is on ownership and the GM. There's no one to guide our young talent.

But, our young players can't be completely absolved either. Barrie's got quite a set of hands. But, he's as weak as it gets. He's got no leg strength and can be beat one on one easily.

Coaching is sometimes suspect too. Why is John Mitchell on left wing? Why does Tyson Barrie play the PK?

I have never been so discouraged to watch this team so far. As Sakic said it himself, we were supposed to see progress this year. Instead, I see more of the same. Slow out of the gate. Soft play. Multiple turn overs. Lack of scoring touch in key moments. Is it Groundhog Day yet?

I dare to make a bold proposal though. If I was Greg Sherman, I would offer up O'Reilly, McGinn and Barrie for Ovechkin. Washington needs more heart and soul players and O'Reilly fits the bill of what they're looking for. He's a Dale Hunter type of player who can play with them for many years. Ovechkin is playing on the fourth line and continues to fall out of favour in Washington. He needs a change of scenery. We need a true sniper to bring some confidence to the team. Washington and Colorado have a good relationship. I think a deal like this makes sense. What do you guys think?
Great post, especially the part questioning management and ownership but I'm not sure about the trade. I find HF threads speculating about trades a little bit funny. Perhaps 1 thread out of 1000 have some reality. Of course it would be great with an offensive star like Ovechkin on the team though.

I'm amazed about how many forum members here (in general) protecting management, ownership and Sherman, I have no idea why, it's super strange. A majority is blaming everything on Sacco. Most people don't even react on the fact that the Avs is one of the lowest spending team in the entire NHL, still blaming everything on Sacco. There are definately more experienced coaches than Sacco though, of course a coaching change would make sense as well, I will not protest. ;-)

I find Sherman way to quiet, poor communication to the fans.

With all the legends having played for Colorado I wish something can happen.

Loosing vs the Canucks right now was very expected, given the background and form, winning would have been a huge surprise. This single game was not a catastrophy.

Vancouver is now 16-0-2 in the last 18 matchups vs the Avs.
Canucks, the Presidents' Trophy winner last two seasons, we are not ready yet even though we should be able to win some games. In the NHL even the worst teams will get some points from the best teams, it's a tight league. Also, the Canucks looks much more physical now perhaps on the cost of their offensive play but playoff hockey is different. Kassian playing together with the twins and recently giving Ben Eager a concussion, just one example, they won't back down this time.

I have not lost hope yet.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if the team start winning again with Landeskog back in the game. Then hopefully all fans will understand that Landeskog is an extremely important cornerstone of this team. (Winning the Calder last season was not good enough for some fans, obviously.)

The big question is when he will be back, hopefully very soon. Hopefully fresh enough to play at 100% from the start

Landeskog delivered 270 shots on goal and 219 hits on 82 games last season himself, during his rookie season as a 19-20 year old. One of the hardest working players in the game, he is a leader by example player, a difference maker.

Sgarbossa looked promising, for me this guy is a true dark horse.

Duchene, EJ and Varly perhaps didn't have their best game yesterday vs the Canucks but they all look good enough. Duchene looks better than last season which is extremely important for the team.

McGinn also looks promising and will get some points soon.

O'Reilly dispute is extremely annoying, the best player of last season. It's disturbing and hurting the team. Two extremely hard working physical players like Landeskog and O'Reilly in the same line is dynamite, strong at both ends.


Last edited by 21: 01-31-2013 at 04:58 AM. Reason: spelling...
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Old
01-31-2013, 04:16 AM
  #31
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New Owner, new GM, new coach, new players (except for a few)... go.

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01-31-2013, 04:48 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by AvsWraith View Post
New Owner, new GM, new coach, new players (except for a few)... go.
Landeskog back soon hopefully.

O'Reilly hopefully signs.

Sgarbossa surprising.

Duchene playing a ppg pace.

McGinn finally scoring.

etc, etc... things could change quickly.

Hopefully management talks soon.

A more experienced coach wouldn't hurt even though I don't blame it all on Sacco.

Extremely important game vs Calgary coming up.

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01-31-2013, 07:50 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
1. Sherman hasn't done anything wrong.

2. We already have a Sherman-thread.
I agree with this.

Ed - Well not completely, Sherman hasn't been infallible but I still trust him.

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ďItís embarrassing. Iím embarrassed to be here right now. Itís not even funny. And itís just embarrassing, the way we, you know, the energy we have in the room and the way we approach practices and the way we approach this game. Itís not how youíre going to win any games in this league." - Jean-Sebastien Giguere, April 8 2013
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01-31-2013, 07:57 AM
  #34
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Let's pool our money and buy the team while we're at it!

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01-31-2013, 08:26 AM
  #35
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Every time they fire a bad coach, the guy they bring in seems to do worse. They're afraid to fire Sacco at this point.

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01-31-2013, 09:52 AM
  #36
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Only problem I have with Sherman is that he believes in this current defense core, which sucks. I think he made mistake giving 3-year deals to Wilson, O'Brien, Hunwick whatever. BUT we have to remember he didn't have more cap-space to use, so he was kinda stuck with this current **** what he had.

Sacco needs to go, Sherman needs to stay. I think he's doing fine job! IMO.

(I like his style as well, going to get what he wants, Varlamov, Johnson etc.)

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01-31-2013, 10:03 AM
  #37
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Every time they fire a bad coach, the guy they bring in seems to do worse.
Because they refuse to go outside the organization to look for a new one.

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01-31-2013, 10:04 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Only problem I have with Sherman is that he believes in this current defense core, which sucks. I think he made mistake giving 3-year deals to Wilson, O'Brien, Hunwick whatever. BUT we have to remember he didn't have more cap-space to use, so he was kinda stuck with this current **** what he had.

Sacco needs to go, Sherman needs to stay. I think he's doing fine job! IMO.

(I like his style as well, going to get what he wants, Varlamov, Johnson etc.)
Analyzed as a group, I don't believe his trades have improved the team at all.

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01-31-2013, 10:08 AM
  #39
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I think the FO considers this season a write-off. Even before the season started.

I think they are waiting for next season, when the cap drops. They are hoping to profit from other teams having to make some very tough decisions to fit under the new cap.

I hope that is when they will open the wallets, and take serious measures toward getting us over this hill, and taking the next step toward being a successful team.

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01-31-2013, 10:09 AM
  #40
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Analyzed as a group, I don't believe his trades have improved the team at all.
I really like Varlamov trade now. Johnson is currently not that great for us(top-10 defensemen in NHL), but can you imagine this team without Johnson? He's crucial to us. Liles trade was bad, because we only got 2nd rounder for him and he would be better than our current defense. Just top of my head. Overall I like his willingness to make big trades. He's got some balls. I like it.

Hannan for Flash was great move as well, but health issues. Wolski for Mueller great trade as well. We have had a lot of bad luck as well with all these trades!!

I think he's done pretty well overall.

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01-31-2013, 10:09 AM
  #41
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Because they refuse to go outside the organization to look for a new one.
I agree 100% with that. Maybe they'll go with Jacques Martin next. He has the experience and the Avalanche ties.

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01-31-2013, 10:15 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Only problem I have with Sherman is that he believes in this current defense core, which sucks. I think he made mistake giving 3-year deals to Wilson, O'Brien, Hunwick whatever. BUT we have to remember he didn't have more cap-space to use, so he was kinda stuck with this current **** what he had.

Sacco needs to go, Sherman needs to stay. I think he's doing fine job! IMO.

(I like his style as well, going to get what he wants, Varlamov, Johnson etc.)
My opinion, which most think is wrong anyways.

1. We should have kept Liles, and not acquired Hejda.
2. I'm torn on the Johnson/McClement/Siemens vs. Stewart/Shatts/Rattie, especially with McClement not wanting to sign with us. But it's happened, and Johnson is ok, I guess.
3. We should have traded up at the draft using whatever to get Douggie Hamilton.
4. We should not have signed Shane O'Brien, Greg Zanon.
5. Whilst he made defensive errors at times, we should note most on our team presently do consistently, but Elliott got 13 points, in 39 games at plus two. Average that out, he's up there with Johnson. Ok, he'd be my 7th guy, but he gets ice time when bad form hits.
6. You need ONE pylon. I have gotten rid of Hejda/O'Brien/Zanon above. That leaves O'Byrne, who I'm satisfied with.
7. I would have "attempted" to acquire Subban, and I would have offered him 4.1 per year for 4 years (which he would have taken), in a trade for O'Reilly AND Barrie.
8. Hunwick would still be in Boston, and Cohen would still be playing for LEM.
9. I appreciate all the above would cost the Kroenke's, but hey, it aint my moola

Our defensive core then would have been: Liles, Johnson, Wilson, Hamilton, Subban & O'Byrne, with Siemens/Elliott plying his trade in the juniors.

I would have then acquired Semin & Parenteau in the off season. My team:-

Semin - Stastny - Parenteau
Landeskog - Duchene - Downie
Mcginn - Sgarbossa - Jones
Mcleod - Mitchell - Hejduk

Subban - Johnson
Liles - Hamilton
Wilson - O'Byrne

Varlamov
Giguere

I've totally got my GM's hat. I would have provided O'Reilly/Barrie for Subban. I know a lot of you would disagree with much of the above, but hey, it's fun doing it

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01-31-2013, 10:20 AM
  #43
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I really like Varlamov trade now. Johnson is currently not that great for us(top-10 defensemen in NHL),
You believe Erik Johnson is one of the top 10 defensemen in the NHL? Am I reading that correctly?

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01-31-2013, 10:22 AM
  #44
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I agree with this.

Ed - Well not completely, Sherman hasn't been infallible but I still trust him.
I don't like the approach to marketing of this team and I don't understand why the Avs signed Zanon. I know the scouts are more to blame in regards to Zanon but Sherman made the decision in the end. I neither like O'Briens new contract but I understand why the Avs re-signed him. Also, the O'Reilly situation really sucks.

I like pretty much everything else what Sherman has done and I still think the team would be heading in the right direction if there was a real coach. This is the thing which needs to be fixed asap.

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01-31-2013, 10:22 AM
  #45
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I think he's done pretty well overall.
I think his trades haven't done anything to improve the team overall.

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01-31-2013, 10:25 AM
  #46
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Analyzed as a group, I don't believe his trades have improved the team at all.
Respectfully disagree here. I believe most of his trades have been upgrades.

Downie (unfortunately now injured) vs Quincey -> is an absolute joke. They HATE him in Detroit, he's not a good d-man and their fans are trying to peddle him to any team that would have him. Downie brings an element to our team that we missed. He's a big loss right now. Huge win there.

McGinn+Sgarbossa -> is another huge win. Galiardi was not working out and constantly in Sucko's doghouse. Winnik wanted too much $$$ and ended up getting screwed over in free agency. McGinn could have easily 5 goals right now, at some point, they're gonna start going in.

People are always very critical of the Liles trade yet can't seem to recognize that he was heading for UFA status and had stats comparable to Wisniewski. He ended up signing a 'favourable' contract but even so, you're still locking up this guy long-term with all that he brings, good AND bad. He was never going to be better than adequate defensively, that much was obvious. But sure, they could have maybe signed him and hung on to him and he definitely would help this team out right now, that's for certain.

The Varly trade took a lot of balls and until Filip Forsberg does 'anything' at the NHL level, this has to be considered a WIN.

All in all, I think the trades that have been made have improved our team, I have no doubt of that. I do think that right now, the entire team seems to be in disarray. There is no chemistry since players seem to find themselves on a different line almost every game due to injuries or otherwise. The systems or lackthereof certainly have an effect on the game (Matt Duchene on the point on the PP...how many games before the little light comes on in Sucko's head and he realizes that this is just not working? Classic Sucko ) and our team seem demoralized. Someone else mentioned it as well, this team doesn't seem to BELIEVE in their capabilities which CANNOT be allowed to continue on for much longer.

Most GMs get at least one more chance with another coach before they get canned, though I personally believe there was no way to justify re-signing your head coach after the abysmal 3 year showing we just had.

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01-31-2013, 10:26 AM
  #47
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I think his trades haven't done anything to improve the team overall.
Well yeah, If you think about it yes. I understand your point.

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01-31-2013, 10:33 AM
  #48
ABasin
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Respectfully disagree here. I believe most of his trades have been upgrades.

Downie (unfortunately now injured) vs Quincey -> is an absolute joke. They HATE him in Detroit, he's not a good d-man and their fans are trying to peddle him to any team that would have him. Downie brings an element to our team that we missed. He's a big loss right now. Huge win there.

McGinn+Sgarbossa -> is another huge win. Galiardi was not working out and constantly in Sucko's doghouse. Winnik wanted too much $$$ and ended up getting screwed over in free agency. McGinn could have easily 5 goals right now, at some point, they're gonna start going in.

People are always very critical of the Liles trade yet can't seem to recognize that he was heading for UFA status and had stats comparable to Wisniewski. He ended up signing a 'favourable' contract but even so, you're still locking up this guy long-term with all that he brings, good AND bad. He was never going to be better than adequate defensively, that much was obvious. But sure, they could have maybe signed him and hung on to him and he definitely would help this team out right now, that's for certain.

The Varly trade took a lot of balls and until Filip Forsberg does 'anything' at the NHL level, this has to be considered a WIN.

All in all, I think the trades that have been made have improved our team, I have no doubt of that. I do think that right now, the entire team seems to be in disarray. There is no chemistry since players seem to find themselves on a different line almost every game due to injuries or otherwise. The systems or lackthereof certainly have an effect on the game (Matt Duchene on the point on the PP...how many games before the little light comes on in Sucko's head and he realizes that this is just not working? Classic Sucko ) and our team seem demoralized. Someone else mentioned it as well, this team doesn't seem to BELIEVE in their capabilities which CANNOT be allowed to continue on for much longer.

Most GMs get at least one more chance with another coach before they get canned, though I personally believe there was no way to justify re-signing your head coach after the abysmal 3 year showing we just had.
I don't agree. I think that if you look at individual trades, there are a couple that look OK, and a couple that don't, but overall I don't see any real team improvement. If you assume the same FA signings and not-signings - is the current team they're icing any better than the 'traded-players-inserted-into-the-lineup' could-have-been team? I don't think it is.

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01-31-2013, 10:33 AM
  #49
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I'm not for firing Sherman. Sacco needs to go, and if we are still floundering a year or so after that, then it is time to can Sherman. If we need to be canning anybody though I think it needs to be the medical staff

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01-31-2013, 10:36 AM
  #50
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Have we improved under Sherman?? No?? What year is this with him at the helm?? he should be done.

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