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Old
01-31-2013, 12:44 AM
  #151
RobinDIF
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
The saddest part is that the Avs management still believes they have a very solid D core.

They are either blind or too stubborn to realize how badly they need much better dmen.
What are you basing this on?

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01-31-2013, 12:44 AM
  #152
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Also, I wish we'd hire Brian Burke as a GM. Im not even joking. The guy is pretty smart and I think we'd begin to see more exposure for the Avalanche in the media. Its exactly what this team needs.
I don't know what the hate on Burke is.. yes he overpaid for Kessel in Toronto, but when he made that move two first round picks the Leafs organization probably thought would be bottom 10 picks rather than two top 5 picks..

He had a huge hand in building the core of the Canucks still today in drafting the Sedins, Kessler, and most of their veterans.

He won a cup with the Ducks...

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01-31-2013, 12:50 AM
  #153
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I don't know what the hate on Burke is.. yes he overpaid for Kessel in Toronto, but when he made that move two first round picks the Leafs organization probably thought would be bottom 10 picks rather than two top 5 picks..

He had a huge hand in building the core of the Canucks still today in drafting the Sedins, Kessler, and most of their veterans.

He won a cup with the Ducks...
That's Dr. Burke to you. I actually like the guy and think he's good for the growth of hockey in the US. But I imagine a lot of the hate towards him around here goes back to the Steve Moore incident.

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01-31-2013, 12:53 AM
  #154
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I think Burke is a pretty smart hockey guy, but he'll never get hired by Avs. They don't want a GM that runs his mouth every chance he'll get.

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01-31-2013, 12:55 AM
  #155
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Yeah, no thanks to Brain Burke. The media exposure sure isn't helping the habs or Toronto, one could say it's even hurting them.

Brain Burke isn't a terrible GM but in reality he inherited a great Ducks team and signed Niedermayer(who wanted to play with his brother). Sure he gets credit for drafting the Sedins and Kesler but Shermy gets credit for drafting Duchene, Landy and ROR.

This team has a good GM but he refuses to fire the coach for unknown reasons. I'd rather keep Shermy because even if Sacco gets fired a newbie will replaace him.

Keep in mind this offseason is what the avs corp have been selling us for the past couple of years. We don't want to buy players right now with the uncertanity of the CBA yada yada. I personaly don't believe but let's what Shermy can do with an open wallet.If he doesn't spend real cash then the avs are indeed on a budget, which is another reason why he's the right man for the job.

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01-31-2013, 12:57 AM
  #156
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Don't be sad, Trust me, if you guys get #1 pick, Seth Jones is a franchise changing D-man, He is the next pronger (minus the nastiness).

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01-31-2013, 12:57 AM
  #157
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I'm pretty sure Sherman is just waiting for the right name to be availble. Going with a "anyone is better than Sacco"-strategy and give that anybody a long term contract would be to risky.

We aren't a playoff team with or without Sacco anyway.

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01-31-2013, 12:59 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by expatriated_texan View Post
That's Dr. Burke to you. I actually like the guy and think he's good for the growth of hockey in the US. But I imagine a lot of the hate towards him around here goes back to the Steve Moore incident.
He screwed up the Leafs pretty bad. Made some good moves but the Kessel trade is one of the worst trades in recent history.

I'm not a Burke fan but if that's the only way to get rid of Lacroix and completely change how the Avs operate, it might be worth it.

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01-31-2013, 01:02 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Lucbourdon View Post
Don't be sad, Trust me, if you guys get #1 pick, Seth Jones is a franchise changing D-man, He is the next pronger (minus the nastiness).
I thought that was EJ or was it Larsson... no he was the next Lidstrom. This Jones fella isn't going to change this franchise around. I'd rather sherman make some moves via trade and FA. Then drafting the next "next one".

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
I'm pretty sure Sherman is just waiting for the right name to be availble. Going with a "anyone is better than Sacco"-strategy and give that anybody a long term contract would be to risky.

We aren't a playoff team with or without Sacco anyway.
Maybe but one thing is for sure the avs would have a better shot at a playoff spot.

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01-31-2013, 01:07 AM
  #160
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It feels like the veteran part of the team spent the past nine months eating cinnamon rolls. Hopefully they'll play themselves into form, but it's not like we have all the time in the world here.

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01-31-2013, 01:10 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Appleanche View Post
I don't know what the hate on Burke is.. yes he overpaid for Kessel in Toronto, but when he made that move two first round picks the Leafs organization probably thought would be bottom 10 picks rather than two top 5 picks..

He had a huge hand in building the core of the Canucks still today in drafting the Sedins, Kessler, and most of their veterans.

He won a cup with the Ducks...
Where's the hate? Here is where the hate comes from.

Keep in mind when he came into Vancouver and Anaheim, the building blocks were already there. Yes, he deserves credit for making key moves that ultimately made them successful, but he didn't build those teams from scratch.

In Toronto, he was faced with a far more difficult task. There he would have to build a team from the ground up. The team was not only bad, there were no great prospects in the system. Keep in mind he did not face those problems in VAN or ANA. He definitely deserves a lot of credit for those teams, but he gets WAY too much credit for "building" those teams. He had nothing to do with Bertuzzi, Naslund, and Jovanovski in Vancouver, and he had nothing to do with Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, or Giguere in Anaheim.

The Kessel deal itself wasn't horrid, but nearly every other move he made surrounding it was a complete failure. Komisarek, Armstrong, Beauchemin, and Connolly were all expensive failures, and in FOUR YEARS couldn't get the two things that Toronto desperately needed despite full control and virtually unlimited resources: a top line center and a top notch goaltender. Oh yeah, and he did the exact same thing that ultimately cost him his job in Vancouver, he stayed insanely loyal to a lousy coach.

I get so sick of people treating Burke like he's the best GM in the league. Fact is, in the last five years, he's been one of the worst. Yes, he's a good man, but make no mistake, he failed miserably in Toronto and deserved to get fired. The only thing he probably didn't deserve was the weird timing of said firing.

I honestly hope he gets another chance. But not here. He's already gone on record saying he'll do things exactly the same way he always has. So HELL NO...I do not want him here. I can totally understand fans here being frustrated. I have never been so frustrated with a Denver sports team in my life...and I'm a Rockies fan for cryin' out loud. But Burke is not the answer. Not now, not ever.

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01-31-2013, 01:13 AM
  #162
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... And to those who say Sherman is not really in charge, get your head out of your ass. All you have to do is look at the transcations made by FG and compare it with Greg. It's night and day, there's no way the same person is making those deals.

Not to mention, why anyone in the world would accept a job that basically a poster boy and take the fall if things go sour. How's that going to help your career in the long run? Also why, would Pierre need a puppet? Why, not run the show yourself and ditch the middle man? It's not like you'll be run out of town if kill the team.

This whole conspiracy theory is just too stupid and quite frankly I'm sick of it. Now I'm off to bed see you lads in Calgary.

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01-31-2013, 01:23 AM
  #163
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Meh, this loss means nothing, nor should it to Canuck fans.

1. Our captain and one of our top scorers is out.
2. Our highest producer from last season isn't playing.
3. Our most gritty, energy guy with some skill is out for the season.
4. A few of our players are having mini slumps.

We get all those players back, and a few of our lines click, it would be completely different. Vancouver aren't the team they were a few years ago.

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01-31-2013, 02:38 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Meh, this loss means nothing, nor should it to Canuck fans.

1. Our captain and one of our top scorers is out.
2. Our highest producer from last season isn't playing.
3. Our most gritty, energy guy with some skill is out for the season.
4. A few of our players are having mini slumps.

We get all those players back, and a few of our lines click, it would be completely different. Vancouver aren't the team they were a few years ago.
true but i think vancouer have 2 (kesler and booth) of their top 6 guys out too... and if they trade one of their goalie, another solid player will be coming back..

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01-31-2013, 02:49 AM
  #165
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The saddest part is that the Avs management still believes they have a very solid D core.

They are either blind or too stubborn to realize how badly they need much better dmen.

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01-31-2013, 04:08 AM
  #166
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http://blogs.denverpost.com/avs/2013...-denial/12428/

Dater with a good post again (he's really picking up his game this season)

I'm sure Sacco won't be going anywhere this season though

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01-31-2013, 06:55 AM
  #167
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Don't be sad, Trust me, if you guys get #1 pick, Seth Jones is a franchise changing D-man, He is the next pronger (minus the nastiness).
We're just tired of having to put up with a coach that couldn't tell his left from his right and dealing with constant injuries to players that are beyond our control.

I dare any franchise to show us a worse string of events.

Sakic's career ends early due to incessant injuries, including an incident with a snow blower.
Blake, our former #1 defender, concusses and ends Mueller's career with the Avs, just before he broke out with us as a 30-40 goal scoring winger.
Flash, our stud pickup playing at a P/G with our stud #1 center in Duchene gets a pulmonary embolism and isn't brought back.
Hishon, our #1 prospect gets his head knocked off by a vicious hit and the attacker gets to play in the NHL.
Downie, fresh off P/G play with the Avs gets a separated shoulder, then tears his ACL to start the season on a routine play.
Landeskog, gets hit by a questionable hit from another Shark defender and appears to be concussed.
O'Reilly, not an injury but a holdout because the Avs are being cheap on him.
Jones, few years back he's scoring at a 35 goal pace and his ACL blows out, hasn't been the same since.
Smyth, gets his head cracked into the stanchion, goes off on a stretcher and isn't the same after.
Hejduk, back gets torn apart two years ago and his speed goes away, ever since he hasn't been the same.


Did I miss anyone?

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01-31-2013, 07:32 AM
  #168
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Did I miss anyone?
Anderson's play going from superb to... well, not so much and then the unknown problems between him and the front office.
Shane O'Brien thinking that the 'O' in his name stands for 'Orr'.
Foppa's attempted comeback failing (was gutted about this but so good to see him as an Av again)
Joe Sacco's unveiling of a Greg Sherman voodoo doll and not being afraid to demonstrate his use of it.

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01-31-2013, 08:56 AM
  #169
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We're just tired of having to put up with a coach that couldn't tell his left from his right and dealing with constant injuries to players that are beyond our control.

I dare any franchise to show us a worse string of events.

Sakic's career ends early due to incessant injuries, including an incident with a snow blower.
Blake, our former #1 defender, concusses and ends Mueller's career with the Avs, just before he broke out with us as a 30-40 goal scoring winger.
Flash, our stud pickup playing at a P/G with our stud #1 center in Duchene gets a pulmonary embolism and isn't brought back.
Hishon, our #1 prospect gets his head knocked off by a vicious hit and the attacker gets to play in the NHL.
Downie, fresh off P/G play with the Avs gets a separated shoulder, then tears his ACL to start the season on a routine play.
Landeskog, gets hit by a questionable hit from another Shark defender and appears to be concussed.
O'Reilly, not an injury but a holdout because the Avs are being cheap on him.
Jones, few years back he's scoring at a 35 goal pace and his ACL blows out, hasn't been the same since.
Smyth, gets his head cracked into the stanchion, goes off on a stretcher and isn't the same after.
Hejduk, back gets torn apart two years ago and his speed goes away, ever since he hasn't been the same.


Did I miss anyone?
Wow, you have great memory. We have had some bad luck for sure. Imagine, If we still had Mueller, Flash healthy for us. That would help a lot. Even Sakic could be playing today, IF he was healthy. He was that good.

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01-31-2013, 08:58 AM
  #170
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Meh, this loss means nothing, nor should it to Canuck fans.

1. Our captain and one of our top scorers is out.
2. Our highest producer from last season isn't playing.
3. Our most gritty, energy guy with some skill is out for the season.
4. A few of our players are having mini slumps.

We get all those players back, and a few of our lines click, it would be completely different.
That's all reasonable, however the lack of puck/passing skills and/or chemistry out there is kind of frightening. Coming into the season, I knew that the Avs defense would have a terrible time getting the puck into transition (which they do), but I didn't think the Avs skill guys would be so inept at passing to each other in the offensive zone. It's almost nonexistent.

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01-31-2013, 09:04 AM
  #171
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I only caught the last 5 minutes of the 2nd and the 3rd period of this game, so I didn't have to suffer nearly as much as everybody else here (excluding the fact that I watched my college basketball team get slaughtered).

The last few games really shows how much this team misses Landeskog, ROR, and to a lesser extent Downie. Beyond the points they are heart and soul players that will try to will out a victory. Right now the Avs are hardly capable of having a shift where you get a good forecheck and cycle going. At very least a Landeskog-ROR-xxxxx line would be capable of giving that every once in a while.

The positives I saw from the game:
-Sgarbossa didn't really look out of place on either end of the ice. You saw the vision and patience with the puck that can make him a real good player in this league. He isn't 100% ready, but I might be wrong on saying it would hurt his development if he stayed up.
-Duchene is trying his ass off out there. He may not create the best chances, and he certainly can't finish everything. But his compete is as high as ever.
-Barrie looked better IMO. Granted I only saw bits of his play, but he looked like the best defensemen on his pairing. He also looked pretty good pinching in, I would like to see more of that.

The negatives (not the whole list):
-Zanon was freaking horrible. Giveaway after giveaway, then combine that with bad angles. it is time to send him to the press box. Play both Hunwick and Barrie.
-Stastny line was pretty much invisible when I was watching. Stastny made a nice pass to release Duchene on a breakaway, but other than that I didn't see much out of him. It is getting to the point where I think he needs a change of scenery to play to his potential.
-Coaching.... Just one example so I don't rant. I remember one shift where Sgarbossa was taking a defensive zone shift right after the Duchene line was out there. Why the hell are you putting a rookie (and not a faceoff wizard) out there to take that faceoff. If you have to double shift Stastny or send Mitchell out to just take the faceoff, fine, but to set up Sgarbossa like that is idiotic at best.
-Defense... Beyond EJ there is not anybody that is better than a #5 on this team. Nobody can transition the puck beyond EJ and Barrie. They take bad angles and skate like their feet are in mud. I seriously think that if we had Barrie, Elliott, and Gaunce in our lineup we wouldn't be any worse. We probably wouldn't be any better, but I can't imagine it to be worse.

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01-31-2013, 09:05 AM
  #172
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That's all reasonable, however the lack of puck/passing skills and/or chemistry out there is kind of frightening. Coming into the season, I knew that the Avs defense would have a terrible time getting the puck into transition (which they do), but I didn't think the Avs skill guys would be so inept at passing to each other in the offensive zone. It's almost nonexistent.
Absolutely. I have noticed the same thing. Avalanche can't even make proper passes. It's just amazing. Talent in this team is hidden somewhere. I don't know where.

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01-31-2013, 09:06 AM
  #173
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-Defense... Beyond EJ there is not anybody that is better than a #5 on this team. Nobody can transition the puck beyond EJ and Barrie. They take bad angles and skate like their feet are in mud. I seriously think that if we had Barrie, Elliott, and Gaunce in our lineup we wouldn't be any worse. We probably wouldn't be any better, but I can't imagine it to be worse.
We might let in more goals, but we would also score more goals, which is fun. Sucks to watch these 3-0 games. So ****ing boring. I would rather lose 6-3.

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01-31-2013, 09:23 AM
  #174
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We might let in more goals, but we would also score more goals, which is fun. Sucks to watch these 3-0 games. So ****ing boring. I would rather lose 6-3.
Pretty much my exact thoughts. If we are going to lose, we might as well do it with style.

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01-31-2013, 09:59 AM
  #175
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... And to those who say Sherman is not really in charge, get your head out of your ass. All you have to do is look at the transcations made by FG and compare it with Greg. It's night and day, there's no way the same person is making those deals.

Not to mention, why anyone in the world would accept a job that basically a poster boy and take the fall if things go sour. How's that going to help your career in the long run? Also why, would Pierre need a puppet? Why, not run the show yourself and ditch the middle man? It's not like you'll be run out of town if kill the team.

This whole conspiracy theory is just too stupid and quite frankly I'm sick of it. Now I'm off to bed see you lads in Calgary.
Right. So when PL brought in Sherman to 'clean up' and get rid of Giguere and Granato and Cloutier & Co., he actually said that because of his illness, he wasn't able to be as active and help out FG like he would have liked to. Something about, "I let things get out of hand" (paraphrasing). Maybe that's just and easy excuse...maybe not.

As for your second statement, you might want to join us all in the REAL WORLD. I don't know what your current living/work situation is but let's say Donald Trump calls you up to be his 'personal assistant' and he's going to pay you $500,000 per year as long as you do what he says to do. Would you seriously turn that down to keep working a job that pays 5 to 10 times less than that?

Unless you actually believe that teams were lining up to hire Greg Sherman as a GM for their clubs?? He doesn't have a hockey background, he has a business background and he even admitted that he was going to need help with the hockey decisions from the group (PL, Sakic & Co.). While most 'hockey' executives learned the ropes by managing teams in the AHL or CHL, Sherman was running the 'business operations' of the Pepsi Center and wasn't involved in hockey operations by his own admission. He was most likely NEVER going to become an NHL GM unless he got this opportunity because he wasn't even on that same path.

As far as why PL would need a puppet or middleman, I think there are 4 reasons:

1) Let someone else handle the day-to-day stuff

2) If things go sour, the blame doesn't go to him (apparently not lol)

3) Media relations - Lacroix seemed to HATE giving interviews. He always seemed to have a look on his face like 'arrrgh get me outta here'. Sherman is pretty good when he talks to the media (yeah, like once a year)

4) I think that most people would agree that PL screwed over a good deal of teams during his tenure as GM of the Avs. The returns for ROY, BOURQUE & BLAKE to name but a few were excellent considering what we gave up. Perhaps teams started to get wary and didn't want to deal with him anymore. Putting a new person in place at least gives them an opportunity to dispell the notion that they're are going to lose whatever deal they make.

The EJ, Varly and Downie deals, to me, seem like they have Lacroix's fingerprints all over them.

I think that Puppet is a strong word and probably not really accurate. I think Sherman is learning the 'hockey ops' portion of the game every day. As I mentioned earlier, he's a good interview and very well spoken and probably a very smart guy and sound businessman. Having said all that, I don't believe for 1 second that he is as autonomous as you're suggesting, he even SAID that they make decisions by committee. Holy smokes, what the hell does that tell you???

Personally, I'm fine with it, I think it's a smart approach. Hopefully having a guy like that, will ensure that we won't make mistakes like the Sakic and Blake bonuses from 7-8 years ago because he'll make sure to go through that CBA with a fine toothed comb.

Believe what you will.

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