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2012 Draft Top 10 redone today...

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:52 AM
  #26
DousedInOil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Nothing has changed ins 7 months? Why do scouting agencies bother to adjust their rankings as the season progresses?
To be fair, majority of the regular junior season has passed. A guy like Dumba has been trying to get rid of mistakes out his game rather than doing what he was drafted to do. I think his stock has fallen quite a bit since the draft. Also, just because these guys were drafted at these positions doesn't mean everyone had them ranked this way going into it. I personally had Grigorenko ranked seconds while Trouba was ahead of Rielly and Reinhart. Hell lots of people had Forsberg ahead of Gally most of the season.

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01-31-2013, 08:54 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
People who are changing their lists 6 games into the season are delusional. The order should be the exact as back in June.
People not changing it are plain stupid.

ISS and all the lists were changing every week, before the draft.
And now, 7 Months later, nothing changed? We have a lot more information : half a season passed, some players are in the NHL, etc.

If your list havent changed, its time to ask yourself questions.


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Old
01-31-2013, 08:59 AM
  #28
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1-Yakupov
2-Galchenyuk
3-Trouba
4-Murray
5-Reinhart
6-Lindholm
7-Rielly
8-Grigorenko
9-Forsberg
10-Dumba

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:10 AM
  #29
Lessy
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I'd like to hear people's logic for what has happened to justify taking Galchenyuk over Yakupov 7 months after Yakupov was the definition of a consensus #1 pick. Don't get me wrong Galchenyuk has rebounded very nicely from his injury but he hasn't outplayed Yakupov this year by much, if at all. Yakupov has proven to be too good for the CHL in his underage season and in his draft year. We can debate whether Gally's stats in the OHL are more impressive than Yak's in the KHL but at least we can say they're comparable. People also like to point out their WJC performances and while Yakupov looked awful at times they ended up with identical stat lines. Now in the NHL, Yakupov has 4 goals in his first 6 games. Galchenyuk is the center which is nice but he's not #1 yet in a redraft.

Waits for people to bring up the inch size advantage.

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01-31-2013, 09:18 AM
  #30
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6 games into the 1998 season, some Rangers fans were thinking Malhotra might end up the best player from the '98 draft. All because he made a decent splash in the first few weeks of the season after making the Rangers squad as an 18 year old.

Meanwhile, guys like Tanguay, Gagne and many others didn't crack the NHL as 18 year olds, but went on to have much more productive careers.

Not saying Galchenyuk doesn't have the potential to be the best player in this draft, but there certainly isn't any indication he is just based on the last few weeks. Plus, it's the development most of these guys will go through in the next 3-4 years that will dictate their career development.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:34 AM
  #31
Lessy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
6 games into the 1998 season, some Rangers fans were thinking Malhotra might end up the best player from the '98 draft. All because he made a decent splash in the first few weeks of the season after making the Rangers squad as an 18 year old.

Meanwhile, guys like Tanguay, Gagne and many others didn't crack the NHL as 18 year olds, but went on to have much more productive careers.

Not saying Galchenyuk doesn't have the potential to be the best player in this draft, but there certainly isn't any indication he is just based on the last few weeks. Plus, it's the development most of these guys will go through in the next 3-4 years that will dictate their career development.
That's the thing. 6 games into the season is one thing but Yakupov has 4 goals in those 6 games, 2 of which were exceptionally clutch. I know Galchenyuk has 1+4 but even the biggest Yakupov/Galchenyuk haters would say the stats are a wash right now at best.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:51 AM
  #32
Sundinisagod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ResilientBeast View Post
People who are changing their lists 6 games into the season are delusional. The order should be the exact as back in June.
You don't think Grigorenko has shown that he should have been drafted higher than 12th overall still?

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:54 AM
  #33
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top 10:
Galchenyuk
Yakupov
Murray
Grigorenko
Trouba
Forsberg
Rielly
Reinhart
Lindholm
Faksa

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:56 AM
  #34
Sundinisagod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
I'd like to hear people's logic for what has happened to justify taking Galchenyuk over Yakupov 7 months after Yakupov was the definition of a consensus #1 pick. Don't get me wrong Galchenyuk has rebounded very nicely from his injury but he hasn't outplayed Yakupov this year by much, if at all. Yakupov has proven to be too good for the CHL in his underage season and in his draft year. We can debate whether Gally's stats in the OHL are more impressive than Yak's in the KHL but at least we can say they're comparable. People also like to point out their WJC performances and while Yakupov looked awful at times they ended up with identical stat lines. Now in the NHL, Yakupov has 4 goals in his first 6 games. Galchenyuk is the center which is nice but he's not #1 yet in a redraft.

Waits for people to bring up the position played advantage.
That's a lot of what it comes down to. That and the fact that Galchenyuk is healthy and has his mojo back, those two factors certainly close the gap between them. Who's to say that Galchenyuk wouldn't have been the 1st overall had he not been sidelined for the entire season?

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:59 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnapVirus View Post
People not changing it are plain stupid.

ISS and all the lists were changing every week, before the draft.
And now, 7 Months later, nothing changed? We have a lot more information : half a season passed, some players are in the NHL, etc.

If your list havent changed, its time to ask yourself questions.

The fact that lists change every weak shows you have abritary these rankings often are. If a player changes weekly, then people are often overscouting, over-correcting based on what has transpired in a short amount of time. This is why rankings are flawed the majority of the time. If you're changing rankings with extreme regularity, you're doing something wrong. Working in tiers is much better.

NHL teams drafted players for a variety of reasons. The most common primary reason is projection several years away. In most cases, 7 months won't have changed what they think about those projections. Of course, in the same cases it absilutely will (Much more evidence the further down the draft you go). Top ten picks however? The reasoning for drafting them will be the same, the projections will be the same and in most cases, those players will have progressed, given they are now older players in their system.

This is why people declare so many players steals a year or so after the draft, when players put up big numbers in Juniors. In reality, it is simply the case of talented players being older against now generally younger and weaker competition.

You are correct, we do have more information, and if NHL scouts were to re-draft, we would absolutely see different selections. Though movement would be much more pronounced the further down the draft you'd go. For the elite talent, you'd see much less movement, given teams in most cases still believe in the projections they originally made.

Grigorenko IMO should have gone higher. However, he was the 4th Forward taken. The run of defense was an odd circumstance, and perhaps teams drafted a little on need? Some teams will still likely not love Grigorenko's style and compete level, even if other teams completely disagree. No prospect is viewed the same by all. When will people learn this.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:19 AM
  #36
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Most fans out east. Galchenyuk number 1!!!!!

Most fans out west. Yakupov number 1!!!!!

Rabble rabble rabble.

With no inter-conference games this year the East/west debates will be even worse than normal.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:21 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Nothing has changed ins 7 months? Why do scouting agencies bother to adjust their rankings as the season progresses?
What has changed?

Murray has been injured so if anything his stock has fallen a little. But you just cant drop him further than 1 spot.

Yakupov had an excellent stint in KHL and Galchenyuk in CHL ..
at WJHC both werent very good and put up the exact number of points. Yak didnt look good but you cant say that Galchenyuk had a better tournament since he was unable to put up huge points on a stack and offensive minded team USA.

in NHL it is way too early to predict how they will develop but both have been good making key contributions on their respective clubs. .

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:31 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
You don't think Grigorenko has shown that he should have been drafted higher than 12th overall still?
I thought he should have in June and nothing has changed that for me at least.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:35 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
That's a lot of what it comes down to. That and the fact that Galchenyuk is healthy and has his mojo back, those two factors certainly close the gap between them. Who's to say that Galchenyuk wouldn't have been the 1st overall had he not been sidelined for the entire season?
Fair points but people love to point out how Galchenyuk is that big center when the reality is he's barely 6 feet even (combine results). I'll give you that it might have been close had he not been hurt last year but as I've said before I'd bet there wouldn't have been a team that wouldn't have taken Yakupov at 1.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:35 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
What has changed?

Murray has been injured so if anything his stock has fallen a little. But you just cant drop him further than 1 spot.

Yakupov had an excellent stint in KHL and Galchenyuk in CHL ..
at WJHC both werent very good and put up the exact number of points. Yak didnt look good but you cant say that Galchenyuk had a better tournament since he was unable to put up huge points on a stack and offensive minded team USA.

in NHL it is way too early to predict how they will develop but both have been good making key contributions on their respective clubs. .
Some players like Galchenyuk and Rielly have erased concerns about their knee injuries...and some players have had a faster rate of development than others, like Trouba for instance is looking like a 2-way stud, while at the time of the draft he was touted as a shutdown. In contrast to that, Murray hasn't developed much, if at all since the draft.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:43 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
Fair points but people love to point out how Galchenyuk is that big center when the reality is he's barely 6 feet even (combine results). I'll give you that it might have been close had he not been hurt last year but as I've said before I'd bet there wouldn't have been a team that wouldn't have taken Yakupov at 1.
I would have been willing to take that bet (if anything could be proven), I do think there would be at least one team that would have taken Galchenyuk if he played the full season...

If Galchenyuk wasn't hurt, I think it would have been a Hall/Seguin top 2 scenerio where either could have gone 1st, but with Hall/Yak both being favoured as firsts (much like Jones over Mackinnon at this moment).

It's a very slight edge I give to Galchenyuk, it could easily go either way imho. At this point in time, nobody is the clear cut #1...even Grigorenko has a chance to be as good as anybody from this draft.


Last edited by Sundinisagod: 01-31-2013 at 10:50 AM.
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Old
01-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by nitz View Post
He's not getting the same ice time or opportunities that Galchenhuk is.
TOI:

Galchenyuk

14:52
11:10
11:34
12:33
11:10

Yakupov
14:48
13:22
15:07
12:54
16:24

Hab fans are happy with Galchenyuk, Oil fans are happy with Yakupov. Everybody wins.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:52 AM
  #43
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Henrik Samuelsson to the top 10
52GP 26G 36A 62P +24 76PIM 7PPG 3SHG
6'3 208

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01-31-2013, 10:54 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Way to early for a thread like this. If under 10 games change someones opinion that's just fickle.
Maybe the 2012 draft order wasn't their opinion.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:56 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
That's the thing. 6 games into the season is one thing but Yakupov has 4 goals in those 6 games, 2 of which were exceptionally clutch. I know Galchenyuk has 1+4 but even the biggest Yakupov/Galchenyuk haters would say the stats are a wash right now at best.
You're getting suckered into the same perspective by trying to win an argument based on such a small sample size. You can start to play with numbers if all sorts of way.

On one hand, Yakupov has already proven in a half dozen games he is a more prolific goal scorer in 6 games, than the likes of Crosby or Iginla.

On the other hand, he has yet to get an assist after 6 games, despite being with great players on the PP, and is -4, so obviously his poor defensive game and lack of offensive awareness to share with team mates will limit his long-term upside, right?

As to being clutch, I'm not sure how many goal side mid-air one-timer opportunities into an open net he will get the rest of the way, but I'd hope he'd start to score some different types of goals going forward. And I fully expect he will.

See what I mean? It's pointless. How they have LOOKED means something, but even that doesn't mean much long-term at this point.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:56 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Most fans out east. Galchenyuk number 1!!!!!

Most fans out west. Yakupov number 1!!!!!

Rabble rabble rabble.

With no inter-conference games this year the East/west debates will be even worse than normal.
Correct. This thread needs more....

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:47 PM
  #47
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Why in Gods name is Trouba so high? Lmfao. Oh HF.

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:09 PM
  #48
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Way to early for a thread like this. But I can tell you the Flyers are happy they picked Scott Laughton at 20.

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:53 PM
  #49
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Habs fans are happy that the injury scare was nothing more than a scare. Galchenyuk looks good out there, and his TOI should increase, mainly due to the complete failure oh our ''#1'' C.

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Old
01-31-2013, 02:23 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
You don't think Grigorenko has shown that he should have been drafted higher than 12th overall still?
He should have gone higher most definitely but, with only six nhl games for these players and half a season for the others, I think we should wait until we're through the season. Every team at this point is happy with their selections and that order shouldn't wildly fluctuate until the 2013 draft.

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