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01-31-2013, 08:08 AM
  #26
Pierre Gotye
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I don't think this team is quite ready for the playoffs but I really hope we have Carlyle for years to come. He's a good coach that has definitely earned the respect of all his players.

Last year Franson was clearly upset at being scratched but I guess Ron Wilson never even told him why he was getting scratched when Komisarek and Schenn were total pylons.
Schenn blocked shots, and hit people. But he was atrocious defensively, and terrible with the puck. But he was a 5th overall draft choice...

Komisarek...is supposedly a leader, but yeah, not that good overall. But he does have a big contract...

In other words, Franson didn't have the big contract or the high draft position that's pretty much why he sat. But he can do things neither Schenn and Komisarek can do.

The Kadri thing...I'm not sure what/why/or how Ron Wilson could explain it. Except, maybe Kadri isn't a complete 200 ft player. Dunno.

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01-31-2013, 08:08 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by maplehawk View Post
Several players on a number of occasions have implied that there was very little, if any, communication between Ron Wilson and the players.

I'm a bit confused as to how you can coach a team, period, without communicating with your players, never mind for 4 seasons.
Kessel was probably the best example, when he said "Me and Ron don't really talk"

We thought that it was only Kessel that didn't have communication. Turns out, nobody had any communication with him.

Ron Wilson is a pretty terrible coach that has got 600 wins due to longevity.

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01-31-2013, 08:18 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Don't be ridiculous. He was born in Canada ffs

Burke drafted more after Cherry critisized him? Ok first off, thats extremely xenophobic what Cherry said and first he said"more Canadians!"then it was more Ontarianoians!!!111 You really don't know. Look at Burke's draft history, it stayed virtually the same throughout the years, few Canadians,few Americans and some Europeans peppered in.
Born here,and proudly represent the states. Telling me he was born here,after quoting me where i already said he was born here seems repetitive. Burke took Biggs when Jenner was still available. I take Jenner. He takes the American kid,who is a winger when we need a center.Why because he does what Jenner can do,except score.

Jenner can do everything ,and had done more,and was our center just sitting there,and Burke wanted Biggs. Big mistake.Patriotism pick.

Ty Rattie was still on the board when biggs was picked,but Rocco Grimaldi was still on the board to then in fairness.

He signs Komisarek out of patriotism can only be the remaining reason lol.

I will look at his history if you want,but i bet i come up with more examples of patriotism picks.


Last edited by leafspring*: 01-31-2013 at 08:48 AM.
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01-31-2013, 08:22 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Born her,and proudly represent the states. Telling me he was born here,after quoting me where i already said he was born here seems repetitive. Burke took Biggs when Jenner was still available. I take Jenner. He takes the American kid,who is a winger when we need a center.Why because he does what Jenner can do,except score.

Jenner can do everything ,and had done more,and was our center just sitting there,and Burke wanted Biggs. Big mistake.Patriotism pick.

Ty Rattie was still on the board when biggs was picked,but Rocco Grimaldi was still on the board to then in fairness.

He signs Komisarek out of patriotism can only be the remaining reason lol.
Not true.

Biggs was rated quite high by a lot of teams, as well as most of the scout rankings. Around mid first round to later. Jenner and Rattie were late picks. I was really gunning for Rattie with our Stuart Percy pick.

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01-31-2013, 08:27 AM
  #30
Pi
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not true.

Biggs was rated quite high by a lot of teams, as well as most of the scout rankings. Around mid first round to later. Jenner and Rattie were late picks. I was really gunning for Rattie with our Stuart Percy pick.
People forget how highly rated Biggs was at one point in time:

1 LANDESKOG, GABRIEL KITCHENER OHL 6' 0.5" 207 LW
2 COUTURIER, SEAN DRUMMONDVILLE QMJHL 6' 4" 195 C
3 NUGENT-HOPKINS, RYAN RED DEER WHL 6' 0.5" 170 C
4 HUBERDEAU, JONATHAN SAINT JOHN QMJHL 6' 1.25" 168 C
5 BIGGS, TYLER USA U-18 USHL 6' 2" 210 RW

That's midseason rankings.

I'm guessing the reason he dropped was because of offense.

Saad 8th, Jenner 18th, Rattie 11th.

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01-31-2013, 08:28 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not true.

Biggs was rated quite high by a lot of teams, as well as most of the scout rankings. Around mid first round to later. Jenner and Rattie were late picks. I was really gunning for Rattie with our Stuart Percy pick.
I was happy with the Biggs pick. Lots of people seemed to think he was a good pick, and IIRC was once rated as highly as 15th.

The guy was picked low in the draft. So I don't really expect him to be an impact top 6 player...although I think he could be an eventual useful player on the bottom 6. Since he fights, and likes to check. The offense will come. But he's got a lot of work to do.

The Leafs dropped hints about wanting Percy a few weeks out from the draft, so it wasn't a surprise pick.

I hope in the July or June when-ever the 2013 draft is, the Leafs don't pick another defenseman with the club the top picks. It's time to start heavily concentrating on better help down the middle.

With that said, I also think the world of Drouin. Though, the Leafs don't really need wingers at this point.

And while there are intriguing players who are defenseman in this draft...it's time to start addressing the obvious club need.

And if the Leafs don't get a top 7 pick, even if they have to do so via trade...they're again wasting their picks. IMO. Too many good centers are there in the top 7. I have a sneaking suspicion though, the Leafs might really be leaning Barkov or Monahan though. I suspect Bergmann is quite fond of Barkov.

Of course, who knows where the Leafs will select at this point, but hopefully it's top 5, because there is a 99% chance this team isn't going to make enough noise to crack the playoffs.

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01-31-2013, 08:43 AM
  #32
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It's incomprehensible how people defended Burke and the freak Wilson.

Beyond comprehension.

But there were many, many, many little sycophants around who shrieked to high heaven whenever the failure Burke and his boy Wilson were criticized.

Think of how Burke orchestrated that monumental collapse last season with his moronic insistence on keeping Wilson in charge.

How could anyone think the best way to develop someone like Kadri is to mock him in public the way Wilson did?

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01-31-2013, 08:47 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
Not true.

Biggs was rated quite high by a lot of teams, as well as most of the scout rankings. Around mid first round to later. Jenner and Rattie were late picks. I was really gunning for Rattie with our Stuart Percy pick.
He took Toninato when Seth Griffith was still on the board also. I still don't get why Griffith was picked so low by many in fairness,but they were 5 picks apart in the 5th round. Anyways.

We needed a center,and it just so happened that the tough winger he took is no tougher to play against,and most likely not tougher to play against than Jenner.

Toninato is 12th in league scoring in the USHL playing for the Fargo Force. He is committed to the University of Minnesota-Duluth. The marlies won't even see him for 4 years. I wonder how far advanced Griffith will be playing with the Bruins by then.


Last edited by leafspring*: 01-31-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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01-31-2013, 08:48 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by YearsintheWilderness View Post
It's incomprehensible how people defended Burke and the freak Wilson.

Beyond comprehension.

But there were many, many, many little sycophants around who shrieked to high heaven whenever the failure Burke and his boy Wilson were criticized.

Think of how Burke orchestrated that monumental collapse last season with his moronic insistence on keeping Wilson in charge.

How could anyone think the best way to develop someone like Kadri is to mock him in public the way Wilson did?
While they both made mistakes, in retrospect they both didn't have a lot to work with.

Leafs never had a decent enough keeper to take them into the playoffs.

The team also lacked in a lot of areas.

I'll give some credit though to Burke for re-stocking a nearly empty prospectus cupboard.

And somehow finding a way to ship Jason Blake out of town, which was thought of as nearly impossible.

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01-31-2013, 10:11 AM
  #35
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Carlyle was a reason McClement was interested in signing with the leafs.He is a well respected coach among players,apparently even when he is not your coach.

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=414859

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01-31-2013, 10:27 AM
  #36
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so grabovsky with broken english walks into the coaches office and it goes like this...

grabovsky: "me want play hockey. like to score"
carlyle: "that's nice. it's good to score goals grabo"
grabovsky: "me no like checking line, want score line"
carlyle: "you have to do both, you get it?"
grabovsky: "i get paid big money score goals, checking get less"
caryle "this isnt old school, checkers can score now grabo"
grabovsky "me no like school, me go back to practiss now"
carlyle pats his shoulder and laughs as grabo leaves

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01-31-2013, 10:33 AM
  #37
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i like shoot puck, score goal

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01-31-2013, 10:36 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by YearsintheWilderness View Post
It's incomprehensible how people defended Burke and the freak Wilson.

Beyond comprehension.

But there were many, many, many little sycophants around who shrieked to high heaven whenever the failure Burke and his boy Wilson were criticized.

Think of how Burke orchestrated that monumental collapse last season with his moronic insistence on keeping Wilson in charge.

How could anyone think the best way to develop someone like Kadri is to mock him in public the way Wilson did?

Same group now defending Kessel/Dion to the grave. They'll be wrong once again. They're always wrong. We shouldn't let them forget it either.

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01-31-2013, 10:42 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
While they both made mistakes, in retrospect they both didn't have a lot to work with.

Leafs never had a decent enough keeper to take them into the playoffs.

The team also lacked in a lot of areas.

I'll give some credit though to Burke for re-stocking a nearly empty prospectus cupboard.

And somehow finding a way to ship Jason Blake out of town, which was thought of as nearly impossible.
Its always someone elses fault isn't it?

Christ its like a broken record around here

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01-31-2013, 10:49 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
so grabovsky with broken english walks into the coaches office and it goes like this...

grabovsky: "me want play hockey. like to score"
carlyle: "that's nice. it's good to score goals grabo"
grabovsky: "me no like checking line, want score line"
carlyle: "you have to do both, you get it?"
grabovsky: "i get paid big money score goals, checking get less"
caryle "this isnt old school, checkers can score now grabo"
grabovsky "me no like school, me go back to practiss now"
carlyle: "if you want to score goals you need more fire, that's more of your natural personality"
grabo: "more fire? fire burn the ice?"
carlyle: "uhhh.. sure"

carlyle pats his shoulder and laughs as grabo leaves
Fixed that for ya

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01-31-2013, 10:53 AM
  #41
Pi
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Its always someone elses fault isn't it?

Christ its like a broken record around here
Exactly. People blame the goalies here too much.

They don't see that the Leafs have had a copyright on turnovers.

Our team under Wilson was basically three independent units:

Forwards did whatever they want and were barely found backchecking and we were stuck in our zone far too often, defense did whatever they wanted, and the goalie did whatever the hell he could to stop the puck and failed.

This team is at least looking like a team. We could be 5-1 right now instead of 3-3 if we could still be better on D and Scrivens doesn't give up those late goals against NYI.

Our D is still crap but points for trying at least.

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01-31-2013, 10:54 AM
  #42
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It was plain to see years ago that Wilson was, if not just a bad coach in general, specifically a bad coach for this team.

I don't care what else Burke did, he deserved to be fired for allowing Wilson to fester for as long as he did.

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01-31-2013, 11:32 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Same group now defending Kessel/Dion to the grave. They'll be wrong once again. They're always wrong. We shouldn't let them forget it either.
Maybe you should coach/gm?? Team could realy use your knowledge and hockey know how.

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01-31-2013, 11:34 AM
  #44
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He sounds great, we got two good coaches in our system now. awsome

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01-31-2013, 11:37 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Wilson is as American as you can get,who happens to hold Dual Citizenship. Everything in international context is USA. Born here,thats it.

Burke drafted more after Cherry called him on it too i know.
He actually lived in Canada until 12 years old, he moved to the United States because his dad was a professional hockey player. That being said, he comes from a long line of Canadian hockey folk.

He wasn't the most skilled player, so would have never made a Canadian team as a player and thus chose to play for the U.S. instead of sitting home during international tournaments - because he loved playing the game of Hockey.

I hardly think this is because he is as American as they come.

Burke Draft history before comments made by Cherry in 2012:

2011
25 1 Stuart Percy D Mississauga St. Michael's Majors [OHL]
86 3 Joshua Leivo L Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
152 6 David Broll L Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]
190 7 Garret Sparks G Guelph Storm [OHL]

2010

2010 Entry 62 3 Greg McKegg C Erie Otters [OHL]
2010 Entry 144 5 Sam Carrick C Brampton Battalion [OHL]

2009

2009 Entry 7 1 Nazem Kadri C London Knights [OHL]
2009 Entry 58 2 Jesse Blacker D Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
2009 Entry 68 3 Jamie Devane L Plymouth Whalers [OHL]
2009 Entry 188 7 Barron Smith D Peterborough Petes [OHL]

Only in 2010 did he select less players from the OHL then in 2012, after those comments.

In 2009 and 2011 he selected more players than in 2012, when supposibly listened to Cherry and started drafting guys from the OHL...

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01-31-2013, 11:46 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
He took Toninato when Seth Griffith was still on the board also. I still don't get why Griffith was picked so low by many in fairness,but they were 5 picks apart in the 5th round. Anyways.

We needed a center,and it just so happened that the tough winger he took is no tougher to play against,and most likely not tougher to play against than Jenner.

Toninato is 12th in league scoring in the USHL playing for the Fargo Force. He is committed to the University of Minnesota-Duluth. The marlies won't even see him for 4 years. I wonder how far advanced Griffith will be playing with the Bruins by then.
That's what everyone said about Biggs too. 1 year later, he joins the OHL. You never know how long college prospects will stay in school.

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01-31-2013, 11:55 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by exporta View Post
He actually lived in Canada until 12 years old, he moved to the United States because his dad was a professional hockey player. That being said, he comes from a long line of Canadian hockey folk.

He wasn't the most skilled player, so would have never made a Canadian team as a player and thus chose to play for the U.S. instead of sitting home during international tournaments - because he loved playing the game of Hockey.

I hardly think this is because he is as American as they come.

Burke Draft history before comments made by Cherry in 2012:

2011
25 1 Stuart Percy D Mississauga St. Michael's Majors [OHL]
86 3 Joshua Leivo L Sudbury Wolves [OHL]
152 6 David Broll L Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds [OHL]
190 7 Garret Sparks G Guelph Storm [OHL]

2010

2010 Entry 62 3 Greg McKegg C Erie Otters [OHL]
2010 Entry 144 5 Sam Carrick C Brampton Battalion [OHL]

2009

2009 Entry 7 1 Nazem Kadri C London Knights [OHL]
2009 Entry 58 2 Jesse Blacker D Windsor Spitfires [OHL]
2009 Entry 68 3 Jamie Devane L Plymouth Whalers [OHL]
2009 Entry 188 7 Barron Smith D Peterborough Petes [OHL]

Only in 2010 did he select less players from the OHL then in 2012, after those comments.

In 2009 and 2011 he selected more players than in 2012, when supposibly listened to Cherry and started drafting guys from the OHL...
Sparks is not Canadian.

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01-31-2013, 12:09 PM
  #48
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I'm pretty sure Cherry's comments were about people from Ontario

Not playing in Ontario

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01-31-2013, 12:19 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
That's what everyone said about Biggs too. 1 year later, he joins the OHL. You never know how long college prospects will stay in school.
I think Toninato will stay there(at home)though. Never know for sure though.

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