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Paul Kelly says QC & Toronto to get expansion teams; Daly disputes assertion

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Old
01-30-2013, 11:49 PM
  #151
Tough Guy
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Originally Posted by HugoSimon View Post
Serious question, do you wear a raptors jershey, and a BJs hat often, I think I recognize you from somewhere no joke.
The G Dawg has never owned either of those items.

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01-30-2013, 11:59 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Shawa666 View Post
If you knew how to read bettmanese you knew the team was gone before the season's half point.

Bettmanese is easy to read. Try to make sense of what Bernie Ecclestone says and you'll see that Bettman is still pretty straightforward.
I know, it just p***es me off. Bettman outright lies when he answers questions; at least Daly sounds like he's trying to answer questions straight.

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01-31-2013, 12:01 AM
  #153
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Not sure if this is a good idea.

Quebec, maybe because they obviously used to have a team there, but Toronto2? Im not sure..



The reason that you can have 3 teams in NYC is because the NYC metro region has over 20 million people


For comparison, there are only 12 million in Ontario.


On top of that NYC has 3 distinct regions for teams, i'm not sure there is enough room/people for a second toronto team..

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01-31-2013, 12:04 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
Really? Youth hockey in Toronto is declining at a rapid rate.
Lol, yea, and the GTHL is still somehow the largest and most successful development league in the world. And Toronto has the most amount of players in the NHL of any city. And Ontario has the most amount of players in the NHL of any province or state. In fact, Ontario could go toe-to-toe with the rest of Canada and do pretty damn well.

Sure, some of the intermediary teams don't get a lot of support, but tons of people play youth hockey here -- hence it produces so many players and has the best development league in the world. And tons more love NHL hockey; there are at least as many Leafs haters (who nevertheless love NHL hockey, just not the Leafs) as there are Leafs fans. A second team in the GTA would thrive.

Personally, though, if an NHL team comes to Southern Ontario (article said "Ontario" is an underserved market), then I'd hope it's Hamilton.

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01-31-2013, 12:13 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by MTaylorJ1 View Post
When the topic of Kansas City comes up, is the comparable Nashville (similar sized city with no NBA team and heavy college sport influence) or is it Hartford?
St. Louis is probably the best comparison. St. Louis is slightly bigger, but both are within the same state, and both cities experience regular winters. Both cities have NFL and MLB teams. Both cities have reasonably strong college sports cultures. If Kansas City gets a team, a great rivalry would be formed.

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01-31-2013, 12:28 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by G Dawg View Post
His "point" was that Toronto wasn't a sports town. The Leafs have sold out for decades. No other Canadian team (not even the habs) can make a similar claim. 'Nuff said.



Playing to 91.1% capacity and being 13th in attendance when you are arguably the biggest joke in the league is absolutely "something to brag about". The Raptors are also in the top 10 in gate receipts in the entire league. Other cities lose their NBA teams. Toronto supports it's team like crazy. 'Nuff said.



It's also about DOUBLE or TRIPLE what Montreal was drawing to games. The Jays haven't been competitive since 1993 and yet there continues to be support for the team. They get huge TV ratings and this year we will likely crack the top 10 in attendance.



What a strong argument.



Its gonna be pretty great seeing the dome packed for baseball this year and the acc packed for hockey and basketball (as usual). Meanwhile in Hamilton...
Dude, just calm down. Canadians that aren't from Toronto or the GTA love to hate Toronto -- it is a national pastime. The only thing that rivals Canada's hate for Toronto is Toronto's apathy for the rest of Canada. Just stop giving a ****, most people in Toronto are used to the rabid criticism from the rest of Canada.

No matter what, they will criticize Toronto.

Sell out every game and generate the most amount of revenue for an NHL club despite consistent losing records? Ah, that only proves Toronto is not a hockey town, they just like the Leafs. Plus, the demand for tickets is so high that the ownership group can manage to charge high prices for tickets, and only those willing to pay such prices go to the arena. Don't ask me how, but somehow this is also a criticism demonstrating that Toronto sucks.

Oh, so you say Toronto has produced the most number of players historically and currently of all cities in the world? Bah, nonsense, Toronto is just a bandwagon Leafs town -- they don't like hockey! Not a hockeytown at all. How dare you say such nonsense. Oh, so you say the GTHL is the largest and most successful development league? That's nonsense, man. Look, the Brampton Battalions, playing less than a five minute drive from the Steelheads, moved to North Bay. That proves that even Ottawa is a better hockey market.

It's rather obvious that no one in the GTA likes hockey, man. They should move the Leafs to El Paso where the real hockey fans reside. Or just forget an expansion franchise in Hamilton (which I would love) -- lets just relocate the Leafs there. Apparently, it seems to some that Hamilton is a better sports market than Toronto.

Oh, and we have one of the largest fanbases in MLS, but no, that's just, you know, nonsense. No one cares about the MLS. The 'shine' has worn off. Oh, you say TFC has been playing horrendously? I shall pay no mind to such sensible reasons! Toronto sucks, nobody likes soccer there.

You know, I can go on with this sarcastic charade for a while. But **** it, man. If you've ever left Toronto to visit the rest of Canada, you'd know exactly what I mean. None of them appreciate Toronto, the economic heartland of the nation. And that's fine, because really, why would someone living in a global metropolis like Toronto give a **** about what someone living in Windsor or Regina has to say about the city? No matter what Toronto does, it's wrong.

The worst part is how ungrateful the rest of Canada is. I mean, when Bettman worked to save Calgary and Edmonton, propping up those franchises with specialized revenue sharing funds, where do you think that money came from? There are ultimately only three teams from which significant funds could have come from: Toronto, New York, and Montreal.

But really, whatever. I usually refrain from commenting on these kinds of intra-Canadian anti-Toronto posts -- just be grateful to live in the GTA. Anyways, I have no anger toward the rest of Canada; if two Canadian teams come, I hope it is Quebec City and Hamilton. Hockey starved markets with somewhat distinct identities and sufficient population. I'd be down with that.


Last edited by saffronleaf: 01-31-2013 at 12:39 AM.
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Old
01-31-2013, 12:43 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Lol, yea, and the GTHL is still somehow the largest and most successful development league in the world. And Toronto has the most amount of players in the NHL of any city. And Ontario has the most amount of players in the NHL of any province or state. In fact, Ontario could go toe-to-toe with the rest of Canada and do pretty damn well.

Sure, some of the intermediary teams don't get a lot of support, but tons of people play youth hockey here -- hence it produces so many players and has the best development league in the world. And tons more love NHL hockey; there are at least as many Leafs haters (who nevertheless love NHL hockey, just not the Leafs) as there are Leafs fans. A second team in the GTA would thrive.

Personally, though, if an NHL team comes to Southern Ontario (article said "Ontario" is an underserved market), then I'd hope it's Hamilton.
No he's right. The sign up of players in below naturl growth since 2006 saffron. Things are changing.


And Toronto is average. It's not Boston or NYC as a sports town.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:53 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by HugoSimon View Post
It's pretty much the best time imaginable to expand into canada.

The countries undergoing a rather powerful direction change. It'd be important to keep hockey relevant in the country, before competition from other sports move in.

Not to mention its a very easy cash grab for the league.

It's be very desperate to move a western team from phoenix and dropping it into the eastern canada.

Also looking at the 4 conference proposal and it's dam near obvious the plan is for 32 teams. Winnipeg will be in the west next season so it's hard to imagine, this change not being followed through.

It's not the NHL's job to promote hockey in Canada.

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01-31-2013, 12:57 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by WinterEmpire View Post
Oh please, get over yourself and get your facts straight.

There are lots of Canadian cities with 2 or more pro sports teams, many have hosted UFC before, many also have/had car racing. Just because Toronto has a large population does not mean it's sports town. There is nothing significant in the events that they have, given its size compared to other cities.
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Originally Posted by Ryan34222 View Post
i think his point is its a Leafs town, so no point putting Hockey attendance in this

Raptors, well there tied to Leafs STH, and 13th in attendance is nothing to brag about.

Jays average 26000 but thats like 25th in the league and about 50percent so.

Soccer meh. TFC still got a new smell but the shine is wearing off.

Toronto does suck, the 416 cant do it by themselves. it needs the 905
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
5 if you count MLS and the CFL.
First off, for winter empire. CFL does not count in this discussion. So most Canadian cities have 1 hockey team. Second if you count MLS(which shouldn't count either) then it's barely two but MLS really? not yet.

Raptors are 8th in attendance. And so what if they are tied to the leafs, MLSE can do what they want.

All baseball attendance is down outside NY, Chicago and Boston.

Soccer - yeah.

Others - Toronto does not sell out the CFL, or Lacrosse. So? Toronto is in the big leagues and the Rock or Argos are not big league not matter how many western canadians say other wise.

Toronto lacks the buzz outside the leafs. This is how people are lurking can tell you know nothing about other sports.


Last edited by Melrose Munch: 01-31-2013 at 01:04 AM.
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01-31-2013, 01:01 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by saffronleaf View Post
Lol, yea, and the GTHL is still somehow the largest and most successful development league in the world. And Toronto has the most amount of players in the NHL of any city. And Ontario has the most amount of players in the NHL of any province or state. In fact, Ontario could go toe-to-toe with the rest of Canada and do pretty damn well.

Sure, some of the intermediary teams don't get a lot of support, but tons of people play youth hockey here -- hence it produces so many players and has the best development league in the world. And tons more love NHL hockey; there are at least as many Leafs haters (who nevertheless love NHL hockey, just not the Leafs) as there are Leafs fans. A second team in the GTA would thrive.

Personally, though, if an NHL team comes to Southern Ontario (article said "Ontario" is an underserved market), then I'd hope it's Hamilton.
again read about scarborough youth hockey.

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01-31-2013, 01:06 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Victory5 View Post
Not sure if this is a good idea.

Quebec, maybe because they obviously used to have a team there, but Toronto2? Im not sure..



The reason that you can have 3 teams in NYC is because the NYC metro region has over 20 million people


For comparison, there are only 12 million in Ontario.


On top of that NYC has 3 distinct regions for teams, i'm not sure there is enough room/people for a second toronto team..
not to nitpick, but there is over 13.5 million people in Ontario.. of that 50% are in the greater Toronto area. If we were talking any other sport than hockey, i'd agree with you. but Hockey is king here, and frankly I bet Toronto could handle 3 NHL teams easier than NYC.

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01-31-2013, 01:42 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HugoSimon View Post
Yes but it's north of dallas, not south, it's expansion into more northern tv markets, combined with lesser competition from other sports is a big bonus.

Also if the team does fail, it can be branded as the place is too small to support a team, if houston fails, it'll be the 3rd major population center in the sunbelt to loose a team.

That kind of failure could really ruin the sport in southern areas.

Granted I think houston is gonna be first to get a team, I just think KC is far better.
Well yeah, if it fails, that'd be bad, but if they were just worried about that then there'd be no expansion, period. Every market has its own advantages and disadvantages, but Houston's shear massive size makes it pretty damn hard to ignore.

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01-31-2013, 01:47 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Victory5 View Post
Not sure if this is a good idea.

Quebec, maybe because they obviously used to have a team there, but Toronto2? Im not sure..



The reason that you can have 3 teams in NYC is because the NYC metro region has over 20 million people


For comparison, there are only 12 million in Ontario.


On top of that NYC has 3 distinct regions for teams, i'm not sure there is enough room/people for a second toronto team..
The New York metropolitan area has 3 hockey teams, 2 basketball teams, 2 baseball teams, 2 football teams, among others. Yes there's a lot more people which is why this is sustainable only in New York, but there's also split interest, not to mention hockey is the least popular of the four sports.

In Toronto, there's a hockey team, a basketball team and a baseball team. CFL is always going to be niche in Toronto just as college football is in NY. And hockey is special in Toronto; it's more like how Chicago has 2 baseball teams than the New York comparison.

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01-31-2013, 01:50 AM
  #164
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Do people understand that population is a very small part of economic strength?Switzerland with a pop. of 8 million has probaly the highest standard of living in the world.Countries such as China and India though growing at a strong rate have weaker standard of living.Though not the biggest supporter of Toronto it could easily support 2 clubs with its corporate might.Montreal was in the same boat pre-1980 went the gov't held a referundum on canada?

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01-31-2013, 02:34 AM
  #165
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No he's right. The sign up of players in below naturl growth since 2006 saffron. Things are changing.


And Toronto is average. It's not Boston or NYC as a sports town.
As Toronto gets more cosmopolitan and global in nature, its sports culture will reflect that. I also agree that Toronto is an average sports market. But I don't think that there are many Canadian cities that can gloat about being better than Toronto. Relative to many European countries and the US, Canada itself is an average or below-average sports nation. Within Canada, Toronto is fine. Not some shining jewel, but it's OK.

But still, Southern Ontario and/or the GTA could easily support a second NHL team, and it would flourish. Whether or not sign-ups are keeping up with natural birth rates or population growth rates, youth hockey is still doing great in the GTA. The GTHL is still the best development league in the world. The GTA still produces more players than any other metro. It's not a Coyotes type situation.

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01-31-2013, 02:40 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by joelef View Post
again read about scarborough youth hockey.
Yes, one affiliate of the GTHL struggling somehow renders the GTHL, which still produces the greatest amount of hockey players of any development league in the world, poor and, by extension, Toronto and its ability to support another franchise is also poor. Sure thing, chief.

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01-31-2013, 04:03 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
It's not the NHL's job to promote hockey in Canada.
of course it is !! what kind of league doesn't promote itself ?

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01-31-2013, 04:06 AM
  #168
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Kansas City having a successful team would easily create a rivalry with the Blues. I can't even hate the Royals anymore simply because they're so bad

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01-31-2013, 05:02 AM
  #169
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again read about scarborough youth hockey.
I wonder why? It might have something to do with the entire region being occupied by 1st generation immigrants. Hardly anyone who lives there was born in Canada and most white families (the ones who are most likely to enroll their kids in minor hockey) moved out over a decade ago.

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01-31-2013, 07:43 AM
  #170
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Maybe what Daly said is the truth?

There is no expansion to Markham and Qc city because Qc city "already" have a team?

We dunno

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01-31-2013, 07:49 AM
  #171
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of course it is !! what kind of league doesn't promote itself ?
Promoting the NHL and promoting hockey are two different things.

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01-31-2013, 09:42 AM
  #172
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Kansas City having a successful team would easily create a rivalry with the Blues. I can't even hate the Royals anymore simply because they're so bad
I agree that there needs to be another team in the Mid-west to create rivalries with the Stars, Blues and Avs (At a push). Also allow the sport to grow there as it's the only part that's lacking massively. Seattle to get a team through either expansion or relocation (More likely). Quebec to get a second expansion team.

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01-31-2013, 10:18 AM
  #173
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I don't believe in expansion for the next 5 years at the very least. Why? Because the NHL wants leverage. If they relocate PHX and gives expansions to Qc, Seattle, Markham, they'll get money for sure sure but what happens after after that?. We're ending up with a 32 teams league with no option left for relocation. If the panthers, blue jackets or another team needs to be relocate where are they going to go? They'll be stuck=contraction if no new owners shows their face.

I think the NHL wants to keep some cities that wants NHL just for leverage. They want to have a plan B (relocation) available at all time. This is just my opinion I can't prove it . Of course we saw threads about cities like Saskatoon, Milwaukee, Kansas City, etc but as far as I know none of them are serious candidate at the moment (no owner or new arena).

I'm pretty sure it's only relocation (short term). For this reason, if the Coyotes moves, Qc will get them. They aren't thinking of an expansion fee they could get from Markham or Qc they aren't thinking of an expansion at all. Gary said (a while ago) he wants to return to cities wich had NHL before trying new ones. Qc is ready with a decent temporary arena and I can't believe PKP signed that contract (with Qc city) before knowing he'll be on top of the relocation list.

Will the NHL expand to 32 teams? I think so but not untill they find that new extra slot (city) available in case another problem happens after that. Maybe they found it already who knows...

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01-31-2013, 10:34 AM
  #174
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I don't believe in expansion for the next 5 years at the very least.
Money drives the NHL's decisions. If they believe they can cash in on expansion, then they will. I really believe it's that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory5 View Post
The reason that you can have 3 teams in NYC is because the NYC metro region has over 20 million people


For comparison, there are only 12 million in Ontario.

I'd venture to guess that southern Ontario has more NHL fans willing to pay for tickets than does the NYC area.

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01-31-2013, 10:36 AM
  #175
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Money drives the NHL's decisions. If they believe they can cash in on expansion, then they will. I really believe it's that simple.
Bullseye!

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