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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXI - Nobody Loves Raymond Edition

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Old
01-30-2013, 08:58 PM
  #651
YogiCanucks
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
That's just a fantasy league thing. Doesn't work like that in the NHL.
Are you serious.... wow...

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01-30-2013, 10:47 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
Doesn't it make sense to do that for reals though—make teams think long and hard about claiming a player if they know they go to 30. And if there's a grabby team before yours that keeps snatching up all the goodies that's no fun.
Claim ALL the players!

On a serious note, it does make sense. Teams with money could just snatch up players all the time. And doesn't it cost like $10,000 per player or something? Wonder how many players the Nucks have put in claims on over the years but never did get through?

Quote:
The waiver/two-way thing is always fun to have to explain to multiple people.
I never even knew of the misconception about waiver order. I'm pretty sure I've only ever seen the 1-way/2-way waiver eligibility thing.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:42 AM
  #653
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Schneider, Gaunce, and a 1st round pick for Phil Kessel:

Have a beastly cup run with Booth and Ballard on the team this season, then trade both for picks in the offseason.

As our core going forward:
(For the 2014 season)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Mason Raymond ($2.000m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.025m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m)
Chris Higgins ($2.000m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.000m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Dale Weise ($0.615m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Alexander Edler ($5.000m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.900m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
SALARY CAP: $64,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,037,500; BONUSES: $310,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $162,500

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01-31-2013, 12:50 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Schneider, Gaunce, and a 1st round pick for Phil Kessel:

Have a beastly cup run with Booth and Ballard on the team this season, then trade both for picks in the offseason.

As our core going forward:
(For the 2014 season)
Sorry to break it to you, but Higgins, Raymond, Lapierre, Weise, and Tanev will easily be getting more money than what you have set for them.

And you already know how I feel about that Kessel trade.

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01-31-2013, 12:50 AM
  #655
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Just to emphasis on how insane this year's roster would be.

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Kessel
Raymond - Schroeder - Booth
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Weise - Volpatti

Hamhuis - Bieska
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Luongo
<backup>

I want to see teams shutdown the Sedins and realize how terrifying that depth is.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:55 AM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Just to emphasis on how insane this year's roster would be.

Sedin - Sedin - Kassian
Burrows - Kesler - Kessel
Raymond - Schroeder - Booth
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Weise - Volpatti

Hamhuis - Bieska
Edler - Garrison
Ballard - Tanev
Alberts

Luongo
<backup>

I want to see teams shutdown the Sedins and realize how terrifying that depth is.
That roster doesn't fit under the cap for this season...

...and is an absolute nightmare for next season.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:56 AM
  #657
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I doubt Kessel would re-sign here. And I don't see him meshing with Kes, maybe we could put him on a uBurr 3rd line?

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:11 AM
  #658
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
That roster doesn't fit under the cap for this season...

...and is an absolute nightmare for next season.
We would have to waive a few but I felt like posting it.

And nope:

FORWARDS
Daniel Sedin ($6.100m) / Henrik Sedin ($6.100m) / Zack Kassian ($0.870m)
Alexandre Burrows ($4.500m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Phil Kessel ($5.400m)
Chris Higgins ($2.400m) / Jordan Schroeder ($1.100m) / Nicklas Jensen ($0.894m)
Dale Weise ($0.700m) / Maxim Lapierre ($1.250m) / Jannik Hansen ($1.350m)
Aaron Volpatti ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Alexander Edler ($5.000m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.600m)
Jason Garrison ($4.600m) / Dan Hamhuis ($4.500m)
Kevin Connauton ($0.750m) / Chris Tanev ($1.200m)
Jim Vandermeer ($0.600m) /
GOALTENDERS
Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)
Eddie Lack ($0.750m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,697,500; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $602,500

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:43 AM
  #659
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I'd probably do it and figure out the cap later. That's a disgusting lineup.

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Old
01-31-2013, 04:38 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by CpatainCanuck View Post
That roster doesn't fit under the cap for this season...
Actually decided to play with it and amazingly, it would. We just need to waive Alberts and hope he is claimed.

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:06 AM
  #661
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Kessel = Do Not Want. Not a fit, unsustainable long-term, and moving _any_ young assets from this pipeline makes zero sense.



As for a fit, I'm looking at some of the bigger players around the league that aren't quite clicking with their teams. Two names jump out in Eller and Tangradi. If picked up _cheap_, what would it cost. Not giving anyone up like Gaunce or Corrado, but perhaps a depth guy and so so prospect? Maybe something around Connauten?


I think the only trade that has made Gillis look bad is when he dealt youth for Ballard. At that point, no one could project where Grabner would be, or where Howden will end up. That's the risk in dealing even B level prospects. But I'd take the chance here. Sweatt + Suave? Connauten/Polasek? Rodin?

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:16 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Kessel = Do Not Want. Not a fit, unsustainable long-term, and moving _any_ young assets from this pipeline makes zero sense.



As for a fit, I'm looking at some of the bigger players around the league that aren't quite clicking with their teams. Two names jump out in Eller and Tangradi. If picked up _cheap_, what would it cost. Not giving anyone up like Gaunce or Corrado, but perhaps a depth guy and so so prospect? Maybe something around Connauten?


I think the only trade that has made Gillis look bad is when he dealt youth for Ballard. At that point, no one could project where Grabner would be, or where Howden will end up. That's the risk in dealing even B level prospects. But I'd take the chance here. Sweatt + Suave? Connauten/Polasek? Rodin?
I would be OK with Eller, but Tangradi is a horrible player. Horrible.

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:31 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I would be OK with Eller, but Tangradi is a horrible player. Horrible.

Tangradi isn't good, I agree. I'm talking about players in that mould. Tangradi just popped up as a big player that could potentially do better as a project. Eller is the better choice though, I agree.


It takes me back to Gillis's supposed wish list when trading Hodgson. Clifford and Kassian were a part of that list AFAIK. So what are the players around the league that kind of fit that mould that are not doing well on their respective teams? These players should be targeted for their potential.


I've like Regin, but he's frail. Matt Martin? Although he's doing fine on the island. It's difficult putting a list together... I guess that speaks to the rarity of Kassian's skillset.

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:49 AM
  #664
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Unfortunately, acquiring players with Kassian's skill set is next to impossible. This is why Hodgson was traded for him before he could develop, we appear to be reaping the rewards already. It's my opinion that if Kassian had started last season in Buffalo with 5 goals through 7 games, that trade never would have happened. Obviously I realize he's a year ahead in his development now, but I'm sure you can grasp my point.

Gillis seems to have placed emphasis on drafting big, skilled, and sometimes mean forwards. Jensen, Mallet, Grenier, and LaBate are testament to that; not to mention acquiring Archibald. If some of these guys as well as future picks work out, the post-Sedin era will be an interesting one. In my opinion, skill beats size, but having a number of ~50 point huge skating forwards can be very hard to handle for any team.

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:56 AM
  #665
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Unfortunately, acquiring players with Kassian's skill set is next to impossible. This is why Hodgson was traded for him before he could develop, we appear to be reaping the rewards already. It's my opinion that if Kassian had started last season in Buffalo with 5 goals through 7 games, that trade never would have happened. Obviously I realize he's a year ahead in his development now, but I'm sure you can grasp my point.

Gillis seems to have placed emphasis on drafting big, skilled, and sometimes mean forwards. Jensen, Mallet, Grenier, and LaBate are testament to that; not to mention acquiring Archibald. If some of these guys as well as future picks work out, the post-Sedin era will be an interesting one. In my opinion, skill beats size, but having a number of ~50 point huge skating forwards can be very hard to handle for any team.



In a vacuum skill beats size, but not in the environment that is currently the NHL playoffs. Size has run rampant on skill-based teams. The key thing is the board battles IMO. These big teams own the boards, so skilled teams have to go up the middle to get away from that pressure, opening up all sorts defensive problems by doing this...


I understand that it's next to impossible to get a Kassian clone, but I'm more looking for big, skilled players. Not necessarily mean. Eller is of that mould. Bjugstad and Shore are like that as well. More players like that, if they can be brought in, can only help things further.

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01-31-2013, 09:02 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Tangradi isn't good, I agree. I'm talking about players in that mould. Tangradi just popped up as a big player that could potentially do better as a project. Eller is the better choice though, I agree.
Makes sense. I just watch a lot of Penguins games and absolutely hate Tangradi. He's probably the worst player on the Penguins roster.

As for other players in a similar mould to Kassian, I'm not sure that we could acquire one. IMO Buffalo made a huge mistake trading him away in the first place. Hodgson will never be (much) better than Derek Roy so what exactly did they gain? Meanwhile they still have one of the smallest teams in the league.

Hell, look at the Kings — they didn't want to trade Clifford for Hodgson and that was before he broke out. I think most teams realize what they have in these type of guys is something unique.

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01-31-2013, 09:29 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Schneider, Gaunce, and a 1st round pick for Phil Kessel:

Have a beastly cup run with Booth and Ballard on the team this season, then trade both for picks in the offseason.

As our core going forward:
(For the 2014 season)
What does Kessel bring to the Canucks that they don't have already? He is not a fit for the current Vancouver roster.

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01-31-2013, 09:31 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Makes sense. I just watch a lot of Penguins games and absolutely hate Tangradi. He's probably the worst player on the Penguins roster.

As for other players in a similar mould to Kassian, I'm not sure that we could acquire one. IMO Buffalo made a huge mistake trading him away in the first place. Hodgson will never be (much) better than Derek Roy so what exactly did they gain? Meanwhile they still have one of the smallest teams in the league.

Hell, look at the Kings — they didn't want to trade Clifford for Hodgson and that was before he broke out. I think most teams realize what they have in these type of guys is something unique.


Yeah. At the time I couldn't believe why the Kings would turn down a deal like that, or why Gillis would seek it out, but that's why he gets paid to do what he does.


I guess the next best option is to look for bigger non-fighters a la Eller. Any suggestions there? Someone like Shore or (dare to dream) Bjugstad would be great to round out the C spot moving forward. I wonder if CHI would give up McNeill? Maybe take a flyer on MPS? Devante Smith-Pelley? Most likely a guy from the east would make for a better target I suppose.

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01-31-2013, 09:32 AM
  #669
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What does Kessel bring to the Canucks that they don't have already? He is not a fit for the current Vancouver roster.
Serious underrating of Kessel here. He's a great passer, puckhandler, and he has a lethal shot. He would do wonders for Kesler, as they're both effective off the rush and it would take the burden of being a one man transition of Kesler's shoulders.

Plus, we should start a collection of players from the Great Lakes area so interviews will be full of "hackey" quotes.

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01-31-2013, 09:35 AM
  #670
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Serious underrating of Kessel here. He's a great passer, puckhandler, and he has a lethal shot. He would do wonders for Kesler, as they're both effective off the rush and it would take the burden of being a one man transition of Kesler's shoulders.

Plus, we should start a collection of players from Michigan and Minnesota so interviews will be full of "hackey" quotes.

Kessel could do all those things if he were allowed to. In the playoffs, he would be the first guy blanketed by a hulking Dman or a mammoth checker. His skill is great...if he's allowed to showcase it that is. I'd prefer the guy doing the blanketing.


Good point about the "hackey" quotes though. Higher TV ratings.

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01-31-2013, 09:44 AM
  #671
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Originally Posted by Bieksallent View Post
Serious underrating of Kessel here. He's a great passer, puckhandler, and he has a lethal shot. He would do wonders for Kesler, as they're both effective off the rush and it would take the burden of being a one man transition of Kesler's shoulders.

Plus, we should start a collection of players from the Great Lakes area so interviews will be full of "hackey" quotes.
The skills you attribute to Kessel are very similar to Ryan Kesler and Alex Burrows, but those two add defense and toughness. One could argue that David Booth (when healthy) has a similar skill-set, and he too is tougher.

I like Kessel as a player. I just see his skills as redundent in Vancouver, for a cost that would be far too expensive to acquire.

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01-31-2013, 09:46 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Kessel could do all those things if he were allowed to. In the playoffs, he would be the first guy blanketed by a hulking Dman or a mammoth checker. His skill is great...if he's allowed to showcase it that is. I'd prefer the guy doing the blanketing.


Good point about the "hackey" quotes though. Higher TV ratings.
I disagree about Kessel. A guy with that combination of speed/shot is exactly the kind of opportunistic player you need in the playoffs. He can create his offense out of thin air.

I think he's criminally underrated because of the trade he was involved in. At his age and production, he should be heralded as one of the best/most exciting young players in the league. It's a shame he isn't because of how he was acquired.

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01-31-2013, 09:48 AM
  #673
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I guess the next best option is to look for bigger non-fighters a la Eller. Any suggestions there? Someone like Shore or (dare to dream) Bjugstad would be great to round out the C spot moving forward. I wonder if CHI would give up McNeill? Maybe take a flyer on MPS? Devante Smith-Pelley? Most likely a guy from the east would make for a better target I suppose.
I like Shore and Bjugstad, both would be a nice addition. I doubt there's a trade to be made with Chicago, Edmonton or Anaheim. I don't really want much to do with MPS — he has the size but he doesn't use it at all and he has no shot. This team needs more shooters, not less.

I think you just wait and hope that some of Gaunce, Mallet, Grenier, LaBate, and (my favourite) Blomstrand develop.

Quote:
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I disagree about Kessel. A guy with that combination of speed/shot is exactly the kind of opportunistic player you need in the playoffs. He can create his offense out of thin air.

I think he's criminally underrated because of the trade he was involved in. At his age and production, he should be heralded as one of the best/most exciting young players in the league. It's a shame he isn't because of how he was acquired.
I tend to agree. There's really no chance we acquire him but if we could, him and Kesler would just own every other 2nd line in the league.

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01-31-2013, 09:53 AM
  #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I disagree about Kessel. A guy with that combination of speed/shot is exactly the kind of opportunistic player you need in the playoffs. He can create his offense out of thin air.

I think he's criminally underrated because of the trade he was involved in. At his age and production, he should be heralded as one of the best/most exciting young players in the league. It's a shame he isn't because of how he was acquired.
Absolutely, kessel's value might also be at an all-time low due to the expectations put on him by burke and if he's available you're not going to acquire a better player in a goaltending deal

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01-31-2013, 10:03 AM
  #675
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Kessel is a wet napkin that is afraid of corners and allergic to back-checking. I really don't see him as a fit as long as AV is around. This guy is as soft as it gets in this league. But I do see the fit with Kesler provided we put someone like Raymond that will back-check on the other wing. I just personally wouldn't surrender anything close to the asking price. We need to get more grit in this line-up, Kessel does not accomplish this in any way. He's got great hands and a accurate shot though, so he would help with any offensive issues, I just don't see it as a fit.

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