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Mikael Granlund IV

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:58 AM
  #626
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Originally Posted by gustaf View Post
Not liking the idea to send Granlund back to AHL yet, his future is too important, could absolutely destroy his self confidence. He needs to feel that he belongs in the NHL which he isn't learning by returning to AHL with the feeling that his NHL performance was a failure. The fact that we have great talent in the AHL shouldn't push the decision to send him down earlier than what would have been the case otherwise!
Let me ask this (not sure if it has):

Do you want hime to get better or play progressively worse as we did with Sheppard because we didn't put him down there when we should have?

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01-31-2013, 12:03 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Half a PPG as a rookie playing with plugs. Sounds about right to me.. what the hell were you actually expecting?
He's playing with Setoguchi and either PMB or Cullen. Not elite players but not plugs. He's not playing with Nick Johnson and Warren Peters.

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Originally Posted by gustaf View Post
Not liking the idea to send Granlund back to AHL yet, his future is too important, could absolutely destroy his self confidence. He needs to feel that he belongs in the NHL which he isn't learning by returning to AHL with the feeling that his NHL performance was a failure. The fact that we have great talent in the AHL shouldn't push the decision to send him down earlier than what would have been the case otherwise!
If your career and confidence is shattered by getting sent to the minors in your rookie year, you weren't going to be worth a damn as a player anyway.

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Originally Posted by Finnished View Post
I think the biggest mistake Granlund has made was to stay in Finland last season. In my opinion he should have gone to AHL a few years ago because FEL didn't offer him anything new. He could have escaped from Finnish media and get used to northern American way of playing hockey.
He wasn't very effective at the end of last season either and I could see the frustration in him I think it all started in the WJC when he failed that penalty shot.. I still think he'll be a good player but most Finnish people have had ridiculously high expectations to say the least
I would have liked to see him come over last year as well, but I'm guessing he made more money over there than he would have in Houston.

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Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Let me ask this (not sure if it has):

Do you want hime to get better or play progressively worse as we did with Sheppard because we didn't put him down there when we should have?
That's what I'm concerned with.

Making the playoffs is going to be very important for this team. If Granlund continues to be a liability out there defensively without contributing offensively, he's going to either have to get pushed down the lineup or sent down. And if the front office doesn't have the balls to send him down, he'll be looking down the Sheppard road.

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01-31-2013, 12:09 PM
  #628
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The way you know Granlund has been terrible, is that us finns haven't been commenting on this thread for several pages ..... Too embarrased to come up with excuses.

At first I thought it was a lack of confidence, which it may be to a degree, but his style of play just does not work in the NHL, until he learns how to lean on guys, and learns how to make faster decisions.

I'm not a Wild fan, so I've watched the Wild games basically with my eyes glued on #64, and he looks even worse that way.... There have been very few shifts in which he has looked like he belongs in the NHL, let alone has contributed to the team offensively. Almost every shift something happens, where my finnish heart just cringes at how bad he is/looks. The amount of times he loses his stick, gets knocked down, and turns the puck over is way more than what you would expect from a rookie, let alone an "older" rookie like MG.

Thankfully he has three points, he could have 0 with the way he's playing, so hopefully that will keep the national media and the finnish media off his back. But to be honest, as a finn who has been waiting for a top finnish prospect to enter the league for a long time, it's physically and mentally painful to watch Granlund. In the first few games I eagerly awaited seeing his every shift, but now it's the exact opposite, and I actively hope Yeo benches him as it hurts too much watching him fumble all over the ice....

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01-31-2013, 12:09 PM
  #629
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The dramatics fans are ranging from about this kid is hilarity.

He's fine at this level and he's absolutely the best option for it.

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01-31-2013, 12:10 PM
  #630
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He had school and finish military to finish last year.. Hockey is hockey after all. Move him to wing, and start him as a center next season. It has worked before with him.

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01-31-2013, 12:11 PM
  #631
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People need to take a deep breath....

Granlund looked better last night then the night before...While he is progressing slower than many of us predicted, I do think he is progressing.

He'll be fine.

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:30 PM
  #632
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
The way you know Granlund has been terrible, is that us finns haven't been commenting on this thread for several pages ..... Too embarrased to come up with excuses.

At first I thought it was a lack of confidence, which it may be to a degree, but his style of play just does not work in the NHL, until he learns how to lean on guys, and learns how to make faster decisions.

I'm not a Wild fan, so I've watched the Wild games basically with my eyes glued on #64, and he looks even worse that way.... There have been very few shifts in which he has looked like he belongs in the NHL, let alone has contributed to the team offensively. Almost every shift something happens, where my finnish heart just cringes at how bad he is/looks. The amount of times he loses his stick, gets knocked down, and turns the puck over is way more than what you would expect from a rookie, let alone an "older" rookie like MG.

Thankfully he has three points, he could have 0 with the way he's playing, so hopefully that will keep the national media and the finnish media off his back. But to be honest, as a finn who has been waiting for a top finnish prospect to enter the league for a long time, it's physically and mentally painful to watch Granlund. In the first few games I eagerly awaited seeing his every shift, but now it's the exact opposite, and I actively hope Yeo benches him as it hurts too much watching him fumble all over the ice....
Man, what an overly dramatic post. If you didn't know as a Finn that he'd struggle with some things in the NHL (the exact one's he's having a hard time with), then you should really take a hard look at your expectations for him. He's never been very good defensively especially when moving to another level, and thinking his lack of strength would pose no issue at least in the beginning is just refusing to acknowledge the facts. That doesn't mean he's a bust or that he doesn't belong in the NHL. They didn't draft him blindly, and they didn't think they were getting a perfect player. Only some fans thought so.

He does seem to be having confidence issues and looks overwhelmed at center at this point, so unless they want to send him to Houston, they should put him at wing. That's the way he was introduced into SM-liiga as well as the WHC (to this day he hasn't actually played a single game as a center in the WHC). It worked both times, and it's likely it would work for a 3rd time and speed up his adjustment to the NHL.

Getting adjusted takes time and patience and won't happen in a week or two. So far it seems that the fans are the ones who have no patience, not Granlund himself or the Wild. It's rocky road for a prospect like him, but he's a tough one and has people around him who will help and support him. So how about we all just chill?

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:38 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT2002 View Post
Let me ask this (not sure if it has):

Do you want hime to get better or play progressively worse as we did with Sheppard because we didn't put him down there when we should have?
It certainly hasn't been all seashells and balloons, but even at the current meh rate, Granlund's on pace for 20-21 points in a shortened season. That would be right around a 35-40 point pace in an 82 game season, not too far off what level headed folks were predicting for the kid, and that's not even factoring in that he hasn't really found his sea legs yet.

The main problem for him seems to be adjusting to the speed and physicality of the NHL, which isn't something something that can be done in the AHL.

I also don't see him getting progressively worse. It's more inconsistency as opposed to a steady downward arc.

Sending him down wouldn't seem to help in either the short or long term, at least not without trying some things that might put him in a better position to succeed.


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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
He's playing with Setoguchi and either PMB or Cullen. Not elite players but not plugs. He's not playing with Nick Johnson and Warren Peters.
He's played mostly with Cullen and Setoguchi, two guys who don't complement him well, and who haven't really complemented whoever they've played with all that well during they're time with the Wild. It's not so much that they're awful players, but it's a combination that doesn't exactly seem to give Granlund a great chance to succeed.

Mostly, people need to stop freaking out just because he's not averaging a PPG in his first handful of NHL games while playing close to 3rd line minutes with guys who have struggled to find their respective niches in recent years.

I realize that it doesn't fit well with the knee-jerk nature of online communities, but patience is a virtue.

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:13 PM
  #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
At first I thought it was a lack of confidence, which it may be to a degree, but his style of play just does not work in the NHL, until he learns how to lean on guys, and learns how to make faster decisions.
He looks a lot like Derek Stepan in his rookie season. I don't think Granlund's NHL career is over after 7 games

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:13 PM
  #635
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Finnish fans waiting for the next great... On to the next one!


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Old
01-31-2013, 01:28 PM
  #636
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I think people are freaking out because our top-6 center depth goes out the window if Granlund can't cut it.

Cullen gone. Brodziak tops out as a 3rd liner. Larsson also probably a 3rd line/wnd line wing. Phillips years away if he does make it.

And Zajac re-signed Kidding.

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01-31-2013, 01:39 PM
  #637
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I don't think it has also helped Granlund that he's playing in such a conservative and defense-oriented system. This added to the fact that he's playing center and that his linemates have failed to convert on chances that he's offered to them (could easily be a 1+5 now) has only offered fodder for oversensitive fans to criticize him on. Setup men are always at the mercy of how well their linemates can finish.

But he does need to bulk up, also so that he's less likely to get injured when players are trying to knock him over.

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:43 PM
  #638
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Old
01-31-2013, 01:45 PM
  #639
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I think we should have sheltered his minutes. What would have it hurt?

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:58 PM
  #640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickschultzfan View Post
I think people are freaking out because our top-6 center depth goes out the window if Granlund can't cut it.

Cullen gone. Brodziak tops out as a 3rd liner. Larsson also probably a 3rd line/wnd line wing. Phillips years away if he does make it.

And Zajac re-signed Kidding.
Erik Haula is almost 22. Tyler Graovac has been lights out in the CHL. And don't forget that Coyle can play C if necessary.

I'm not worried. Yet. See my post on the line combo thread.

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01-31-2013, 01:59 PM
  #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyPhinn View Post
I'm not a Wild fan, so I've watched the Wild games basically with my eyes glued on #64, and he looks even worse that way...
That's why you're a bit too harsh on him (been there done that). If you watch the game that way, you'll pick up every little mistake he makes etc. Do the same with Cullen, Seto, Heatley and you'll see my point.

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01-31-2013, 01:59 PM
  #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillP View Post
I don't think it has also helped Granlund that he's playing in such a conservative and defense-oriented system. This added to the fact that he's playing center and that his linemates have failed to convert on chances that he's offered to them (could easily be a 1+5 now) has only offered fodder for oversensitive fans to criticize him on. Setup men are always at the mercy of how well their linemates can finish.

But he does need to bulk up, also so that he's less likely to get injured when players are trying to knock him over.
Just from the eye test, I'm not seeing that. I'm seeing that he's just plain not getting the puck in the offensive zone. It'd be one thing if he's feeding guys who keep whiffing their shots, but Granlund's not really doing much puck distribution.

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01-31-2013, 02:37 PM
  #643
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I think he is fine. He can out skill the AHL. He was doing fine with the beefed up AHL. Now a watered down version from early on.

Parise in simular terms had 38 points two years re-moved from his rookie year. Granlund would be on pace for 35 at this point. Parise is awsome but he had to learn what he could and could not do. Exposing inteligent players to the level you want them at is best for devolpment. Grandlund will learn adapt and then take over.

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01-31-2013, 03:20 PM
  #644
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Holy hell, he has played 7 games and scored 3 points.. MORE points than Cullen, and for example Cullen is a minus THREE when Granlund is +/- 0.

That was nothing against Cullen or anything, but people need to open their eyes.. it's only 7 games, his 7 first ever games in the NHL. He struggled in AHL for the first games as well, until he started to look way better game after game.

I say give him time, Stamkos had less than 50 points when he was a rookie, hell next season he almost doubled his points.

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01-31-2013, 03:23 PM
  #645
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Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
Quality>Quantity . Yeah it was a hyperbole to make a point. Some users could use some patient. Well it doesn't help Granlund that Brodin is playing like a god on ice.
Granlund is suffering from the same comparisons Suter has with Parise and his own high expectations. In a way I hate to think how bad they would be for Granlund if he were the only big acquisition.

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Old
01-31-2013, 03:31 PM
  #646
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Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Holy hell, he has played 7 games and scored 3 points.. MORE points than Cullen, and for example Cullen is a minus THREE when Granlund is +/- 0.

That was nothing against Cullen or anything, but people need to open their eyes.. it's only 7 games, his 7 first ever games in the NHL. He struggled in AHL for the first games as well, until he started to look way better game after game.

I say give him time, Stamkos had less than 50 points when he was a rookie, hell next season he almost doubled his points.
Stamkos did have a very rough first 30 games.

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01-31-2013, 04:31 PM
  #647
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Granlund's issues are issues that can only be addressed with NHL icetime. He won't get better along the boards in the NHL by not having to go there in the AHL.

He looks like a rookie and is having rookie struggles, but last night showed he's improving. He has the hockey iq and the vision to adapt if you just give him a chance to do so.

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Old
01-31-2013, 04:53 PM
  #648
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Part of Granlunds lack of production so far is because outside of the top line and granlund, we really do not have much NHL-caliber offensive talent.

From what I have seen of Granlund, he makes absolutely brilliant passes that his line mates simply don't have the ability to finish on.

Outside of that, he needs to get used to the NHL's physical game so he stops falling down all the time.

His defensive ability will get better with time. Defense can be taught, but his innate skills can't.

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01-31-2013, 05:00 PM
  #649
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Seto and Butch are capable linemates. I'm fairly confident Seto will start to finish sooner rather than later....the signs are there.

Edit: Or Cullen depending on what the lines shake out as.

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:15 PM
  #650
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Butch is a top six NHL talent easy. Seto really isn't.

But Butch, Granlund, and Seto were very weak defensively, couldn't get the puck out of their end, and Granlund has been turning it over. Few offensive opportunities.

Cullen improves the lines ability to play in their end and helps their play in the neutral zone as well, but then they can't do anything in the offensive zone.

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