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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal 2.0

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Old
01-30-2013, 10:57 PM
  #526
Cujomi
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I am still wary of getting too excited for Zibanejad...but if nothing else he will provide this team with a lot of energy, good defence and a hard shot. He will be an NHL player for sure.

I think he can be a very good 2nd liner.

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01-31-2013, 12:56 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
He got lucky with a deflection off Emelin.

He's been fantastic all-around, though. Couldn't ask for more at this point.
Someone was saying he shoots too much from odd places. Well he shot tonight and got a goal off a shin pad. SHOOT THE PUCK.

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01-31-2013, 12:58 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
10 SEL goals
4 AHL goals
1 NHL goal

This is not a guy that scores a lot. I'm not wrong about that. If you want to whip out the moisturizer & kleenex over a fluke goal that disproves nothing, that's your prerogative.
What was Alfies goal total at 18 years old in the SEL?

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01-31-2013, 12:59 AM
  #529
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Last edited by danishh; Yesterday at 11:11 PM.
Going to make a wish on this one Danish, might have something to do with a Silver Cup.

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01-31-2013, 01:04 AM
  #530
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It's like you guys think I want Zibanejad to fail, when nothing could be further from the truth.

He obviously has a lot of raw skill, but for anyone to proclaim with any certainty that he is going to be a finisher...all I can ask is based on what?

Sure he has + skills in many areas, unfortunately burying the puck isn't one of them. Even guys like Chris Kelly and Shaun Van Allen lit it up in lower levels, which Zibanejad has not done, ever.

Neither did a whole lot in the NHL offensively.

None of that means that Zbad will never figure out how to finish. Maybe he will. However the overwhelming history of evidence suggests that guys that can't finish at lower levels, don't start finishing at the ultimate level.

There is absolutely nothing on Zbad's resume that would suggest that he is going to turn into an offensive dynamo at some point.

He is what he is. Maybe he'll develop into a 20-30 goal guy at some point.

Maybe.

Some of you are giving me crap because I don't see it happening. That is different than me bashing Zibanejad, which I have never done.

Maybe I've just been around too long. I've seen this story played out a dozen times.

Whatever Zibanejad becomes is ok. Some people want to jump all over me because I am taking a cautious approach to my expectations.

I'd love Mika to score 20 or 30, but all you guys that are acting like it's a done deal are the ones that are puffin' the pipe...nomasayin'?

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01-31-2013, 01:12 AM
  #531
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Zibanejad does not lack any skill Holmes. What he lacks sometimes is confidence. He went back to an SEL team that was crap-house. He never should have been sent back and had to play in that situation. The only good to come out of it was the WJC. I would have bought out his contract in the SEL and put him in Bingo last season. It would have been worth the cost to speed up his development. This kid is not Nail Yakupov, but he ain't that far off. Just needs to go to the net a little more.

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01-31-2013, 01:45 AM
  #532
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i totally like what i saw the last 2 games. he brings much more to the game than a lot of others on this team, including silfverberg who looks clumsy at times not making the best on-ice decisions, latendresse (consensus here i guess) and maybe michalek. if he continues like this he'll be in the top6 next year maybe even by the end of the season. although i'm not a fan of putting 2 rookies on the same line i'd like to see him center silfverberg who good benefit a lot from his energy.

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01-31-2013, 03:23 AM
  #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
What was Alfies goal total at 18 years old in the SEL?
Alfredsson 19-20 years old (first SEL season)
21 GP 1 G

And a few more:
Sundin 18(-19) years old (1st/last SEL season)
34 GP 10 G
Forsberg 17 and 18 years old
23 GP 7 G
39 GP 9 G
Loui Eriksson 18 and 19 years old
46 GP 8 G
39 GP 5 G

Give or take some but that's basically on par with what Z has done in the SEL. Not saying he's the next anyone (he's also basically on par with the SEL stats of Samuel Pahlsson...), just that stats for young players are not very important. IMO you need to give any given player a carte blanche (when it comes to predictions) for at least two full seasons.

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01-31-2013, 04:35 AM
  #534
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Yup, Zib gained like 10kg since moment of draft if my sources are correct :p

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01-31-2013, 05:48 AM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I am still wary of getting too excited for Zibanejad...but if nothing else he will provide this team with a lot of energy, good defence and a hard shot. He will be an NHL player for sure.

I think he can be a very good 2nd liner.
I've followed him in Stockholm (Djurgården) since he was sixteen. It's great to see how he has developed and how he's pissing in his territory in the Sens at the moment. Typical zib. Love it.

Can't understand why some in this thread, almost demands more of him. Why? At this point, his ratio is 48 points this season. 1 goal n 1 assist in two games is more than enough from a 19 y/o, statistically, not to mention his game, were he probably been top 3 among the forwards in the Sens. What surprises me the least, is the amount of shots he take. He is in the top of that category from the last two games with 7 shots ( only silf and Karlsson ahead with 8 shots each). When his timing gets better, which it will, I think he could be a 25-35 goal/season player. In a few years, that release of his, could be the most fierce in the game.

But, it's still early to judge him from his two appearances this season, but if I have to speculate, I agree in your predictions he'll be a very good second liner. But the next 3 years is the time were a player at his age should develop the most entering the NHL, so we'll see... :-)

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01-31-2013, 06:31 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
It's like you guys think I want Zibanejad to fail, when nothing could be further from the truth.

He obviously has a lot of raw skill, but for anyone to proclaim with any certainty that he is going to be a finisher...all I can ask is based on what?

Sure he has + skills in many areas, unfortunately burying the puck isn't one of them. Even guys like Chris Kelly and Shaun Van Allen lit it up in lower levels, which Zibanejad has not done, ever.

Neither did a whole lot in the NHL offensively.

None of that means that Zbad will never figure out how to finish. Maybe he will. However the overwhelming history of evidence suggests that guys that can't finish at lower levels, don't start finishing at the ultimate level.
Your tempered and sober enthusiasm is appreciated, all too often the opinions here are black and white between boom and bust. I do think though that Zibanejad has been continually pushed up to the next level very early given his size, speed, and maturity, and that has been the biggest reason he hasn't been lighting it up anywhere.

You may be 100% right but what do you think his numbers would be like if he was playing in junior right now? I'm pretty confident he would be killing it as a 19 year old.

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01-31-2013, 06:32 AM
  #537
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Mika Zibanejad, golden goal! Sweden wins the World Junior Hockey Championship!

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01-31-2013, 07:09 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Mika Zibanejad, golden goal! Sweden wins the World Junior Hockey Championship!
I'm pretending that you are a time traveler from the past right now, and you just experienced that goal live.

PS: I know this hasn't happened yet in your own time, but the Kings win the cup as the 8th seed. Yeah, the Kings! Jon Quick goes like "Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man" good in nets, pretty much wins them a cup. Go put money on that right now!
... I'm going to go ahead and assume that you already did, since it's present day and you'd clearly have used this information back in your own time.. and you're now rich. You're welcome. I'll PM you my address so you can forward my 10% finder's fee.

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01-31-2013, 07:17 AM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
It's like you guys think I want Zibanejad to fail, when nothing could be further from the truth.

He obviously has a lot of raw skill, but for anyone to proclaim with any certainty that he is going to be a finisher...all I can ask is based on what?

Sure he has + skills in many areas, unfortunately burying the puck isn't one of them. Even guys like Chris Kelly and Shaun Van Allen lit it up in lower levels, which Zibanejad has not done, ever.

Neither did a whole lot in the NHL offensively.

None of that means that Zbad will never figure out how to finish. Maybe he will. However the overwhelming history of evidence suggests that guys that can't finish at lower levels, don't start finishing at the ultimate level.

There is absolutely nothing on Zbad's resume that would suggest that he is going to turn into an offensive dynamo at some point.

He is what he is. Maybe he'll develop into a 20-30 goal guy at some point.

Maybe.

Some of you are giving me crap because I don't see it happening. That is different than me bashing Zibanejad, which I have never done.

Maybe I've just been around too long. I've seen this story played out a dozen times.

Whatever Zibanejad becomes is ok. Some people want to jump all over me because I am taking a cautious approach to my expectations.

I'd love Mika to score 20 or 30, but all you guys that are acting like it's a done deal are the ones that are puffin' the pipe...nomasayin'?
Fully agree. As a fan of the team I want nothing more than for zib to become a big time scorer but there is literally nothing to suggest this is going to happen. Having chances and actually converting these chances are totally different.

I'm excited to see how he plays in the next few games, would love to be proved wrong but until then ill have my reservations

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01-31-2013, 07:29 AM
  #540
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I think what this boils down to is peoples inability to read SEL stats.

Sure you can point to his underwhelming AHL start, but there is some context to this season that can't be measured with a stat sheet.

He's 19. If he was playing in the OHL he'd be a PPG player and everyone would be swooning.

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01-31-2013, 07:35 AM
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Hanson View Post
Fully agree. As a fan of the team I want nothing more than for zib to become a big time scorer but there is literally nothing to suggest this is going to happen. Having chances and actually converting these chances are totally different.

I'm excited to see how he plays in the next few games, would love to be proved wrong but until then ill have my reservations
Pretty much this.

Zibanejad has great tools. He's big. He's strong. He's very fast. He has a great shot and he even has good hands. However he's always been a north-south player and he probably always should be. That game works for him very well, but it's not the kind of game that becomes some prolific scorer.

I really see him becoming a high energy, great defensive 2nd line winger that can put up 50 - 60 points a year. He will be very valuable to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corksens View Post
I think what this boils down to is peoples inability to read SEL stats.

Sure you can point to his underwhelming AHL start, but there is some context to this season that can't be measured with a stat sheet.

He's 19. If he was playing in the OHL he'd be a PPG player and everyone would be swooning.
There's nothing that suggests that, really. He's never been a ppg player in any league past the J-18s and when playing at the WJC against players that were PPG in the CHL pretty much every one of them outscored him...and he was one of the biggest, strongest players at that tournament. He might be able to hit PPG in the OHL or a bit higher because of his size and yes he is very skilled...but he doesn't have elite offensive instincts.

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01-31-2013, 08:36 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by SlapJack View Post
Your tempered and sober enthusiasm is appreciated, all too often the opinions here are black and white between boom and bust. I do think though that Zibanejad has been continually pushed up to the next level very early given his size, speed, and maturity, and that has been the biggest reason he hasn't been lighting it up anywhere.

You may be 100% right but what do you think his numbers would be like if he was playing in junior right now? I'm pretty confident he would be killing it as a 19 year old.
He'd have been in that elite goal scorer range in the chl at 18 had he played.

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01-31-2013, 08:46 AM
  #543
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The problem is that this board, and every other board, is full of rampant homerism, and any sober, rational thought that is not heavily influenced by recent events is attacked.


I am glad Zibanejad scored, and he is playing really well. That said, his goal did not answer the "hockey-sense question". I still see 50-60 pts for him in his prime.

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01-31-2013, 08:50 AM
  #544
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Pretty much this.

Zibanejad has great tools. He's big. He's strong. He's very fast. He has a great shot and he even has good hands. However he's always been a north-south player and he probably always should be. That game works for him very well, but it's not the kind of game that becomes some prolific scorer.

I really see him becoming a high energy, great defensive 2nd line winger that can put up 50 - 60 points a year. He will be very valuable to us.



There's nothing that suggests that, really. He's never been a ppg player in any league past the J-18s and when playing at the WJC against players that were PPG in the CHL pretty much every one of them outscored him...and he was one of the biggest, strongest players at that tournament. He might be able to hit PPG in the OHL or a bit higher because of his size and yes he is very skilled...but he doesn't have elite offensive instincts.
You're right, but he's been moving too fast to have been able to "settle down" in a league and let his offensive shown in J18 and below to catch up...

J18 and below 99 GP 127 P.
Z at 16
J20 Djurgarden 14 GP 2 G 2 A
Z at 17
J20 Djurgarden 27 GP 12 G 21 A (closing in on PPG...)
J20 Djurgarden (playoffs) 3 GP 1 G 2 A (PPG!!!)
Moving.
SEL Djurgarden 26 GP 5 G 4 A
SEL Djurgarden (Playoffs) 7 GP 1 G 1 A
Z at 18
Moving.
NHL 9 GP 0 G 1 A
Moving.
SEL Djurgarden 26 GP 5 G 8 A (season interrupted by illness, but no matter not a good season for Z)
SEL Djurgarden (Playoffs) 10 GP 4 G 2 A (a bit better)
Z at 19
Moving.
AHL Binghampton 24 GP 4 G 7 A (season broken up by injury, last 6 GP 3 G 1 A, not too bad).
Moving.
NHL Senators 2 GP 1 G 1 A (PPG!!!)

When I started this post I didn't even realize that the kid has barely had more than 1/2 season with any of his teams before being moved somewhere.

Again, I'm not saying that he's going to become a great offensive player, all I'm saying is that imo it is foolish to base your arguments on statistics when talking about such a young player. Stats can be twisted, turned, explained, etc etc... If you give the kid this season and the next I'll start paying attention to stats based arguments (especially since he would neither be the first nor 100th Euro-player to take a year or two to find his proper game in the NA).

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01-31-2013, 10:29 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
He'd have been in that elite goal scorer range in the chl at 18 had he played.
I think he would have scored 30 as a 17 year old while adjusting to the smaller rink.

The guy has yet to play 30 games for the same team since he was 15, he keeps getting bumped up to the next level. He is still a teenager playing in the NHL and looks good out there. I'd say 90% of the criticism comes from people looking at stats, and the rest is nitpicking his style of play because he might not be the next Hossa.

If you ain't excited about this kid, just give up on life and continue to cry every time your team doesn't win every game 6-0.

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01-31-2013, 10:31 AM
  #546
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Well, now the guy's gonna have to be Spezza 2.0

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01-31-2013, 11:02 AM
  #547
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Such lack of perspective in these boards.

Last year - a full NHL season - less than 60 players had 60 pts or more. That's, on average, just under two players per team with 60 pts or more. It is really hard to get 60 pts in the NHL.

Jason Spezza
Erik Karlsson
Milan Michalek

... are three young players we have that scored 60 pts or more last year (Alfie had 59).

If we get 50 - 60 pts out of Zibanejad in his prime, that would be amazing. What more can you seriously ask for? Silfverberg too. Hell, if he, Z-bad, and Turris scored 50 - 60 pts each season, we would be doing very, very well, and would have a very balanced attack (especially with Noesen and Stone coming through the system, and Puempel as a longer shot).

We need to be a little more realistic about our prospects and our definition of success for them. Draft a Spezza, and yes - you expect (or really hope) for ppg. Draft a hard-nosed, two-way, north-south player like Z-bad... and be happy if you get Mike Fisher.

Come on people. Z-bad is not Alfredsson, nor Sundin. And Holmes is absolutely right that there is no reason to believe he ever will be. But that's OK!

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01-31-2013, 12:18 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by Wiercioch2Karlsson View Post
Such lack of perspective in these boards.

Last year - a full NHL season - less than 60 players had 60 pts or more. That's, on average, just under two players per team with 60 pts or more. It is really hard to get 60 pts in the NHL.

Jason Spezza
Erik Karlsson
Milan Michalek

... are three young players we have that scored 60 pts or more last year (Alfie had 59).

If we get 50 - 60 pts out of Zibanejad in his prime, that would be amazing. What more can you seriously ask for? Silfverberg too. Hell, if he, Z-bad, and Turris scored 50 - 60 pts each season, we would be doing very, very well, and would have a very balanced attack (especially with Noesen and Stone coming through the system, and Puempel as a longer shot).

We need to be a little more realistic about our prospects and our definition of success for them. Draft a Spezza, and yes - you expect (or really hope) for ppg. Draft a hard-nosed, two-way, north-south player like Z-bad... and be happy if you get Mike Fisher.

Come on people. Z-bad is not Alfredsson, nor Sundin. And Holmes is absolutely right that there is no reason to believe he ever will be. But that's OK!
Great post. No one knows what will be but it is very unlikely that he'll be a new SWE star in the NHL (Zetterberg, Sundin, Alfredsson, Forsberg, Backstrom). With 60 pts he'd be 1st or 2nd amongst forwards on Ottawa considering the last 3 seasons, and that would be amazing (with 50 pts he'd still be top 3 which would also be great).

Then again, saying that all of his stats tells a story of a non-offensive player is wrong imo. But that wasn't part of your post so never mind .

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01-31-2013, 12:45 PM
  #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiercioch2Karlsson View Post
Such lack of perspective in these boards.

Last year - a full NHL season - less than 60 players had 60 pts or more. That's, on average, just under two players per team with 60 pts or more. It is really hard to get 60 pts in the NHL.

Jason Spezza
Erik Karlsson
Milan Michalek

... are three young players we have that scored 60 pts or more last year (Alfie had 59).

If we get 50 - 60 pts out of Zibanejad in his prime, that would be amazing. What more can you seriously ask for? Silfverberg too. Hell, if he, Z-bad, and Turris scored 50 - 60 pts each season, we would be doing very, very well, and would have a very balanced attack (especially with Noesen and Stone coming through the system, and Puempel as a longer shot).

We need to be a little more realistic about our prospects and our definition of success for them. Draft a Spezza, and yes - you expect (or really hope) for ppg. Draft a hard-nosed, two-way, north-south player like Z-bad... and be happy if you get Mike Fisher.

Come on people. Z-bad is not Alfredsson, nor Sundin. And Holmes is absolutely right that there is no reason to believe he ever will be. But that's OK!
Ditto. Managing expectations and not presuming he will reach the absolutely highest peak of his upside doesn't mean we're down on the kid. If he is a solid 25-25 guy on our 2nd line for 5-7 years in his prime, we will have done quite well given he'll bring some solid intangibles too.

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01-31-2013, 02:02 PM
  #550
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
He'd have been in that elite goal scorer range in the chl at 18 had he played.
But if he had done that we'd only have Matt Puempel to offer up in our prospective trades then

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