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** Official 2013 Fire Sacco Thread: Part 1 **

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01-29-2013, 03:25 PM
  #151
iceberg
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
The only thing that makes any reasonable sense for me is this: the FO knows that to bring in a REAL coach with experience and a proven winner will cost a lot of $$$$$ and since we're still 'rebuilding' a great coach isn't going to mean we win the cup over a mediocre coach, so let's stick with the cheap guy until we're ready.
The problem with that, is that it creates a losing mentality on a young team... Who knows how much, losing season after losing season, can impact a young player's development?? How it might affect EJ, Duchene and Varly?

Most players, young player especially, lose their confidence the moment the losses start to pile up. So it becomes a vicious circle, of losing games, players losing their confidence, not developing properly, team losing some more games, guys dissapearing... draft high, bring another youngster full of potential, season starts, you lose some games to start the season, players lose their confidence... etc.

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01-29-2013, 03:38 PM
  #152
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I'm going to laugh when PL announces his retirement....right after announcing he's hired Brian Burke to take over as head coach and general manager.

Big snake eat Pierre LaCroix.
PL will eat Brian Burke before he hires him. He doesn't like him from the rumors out there years ago.

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01-29-2013, 03:49 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
The problem with that, is that it creates a losing mentality on a young team... Who knows how much, losing season after losing season, can impact a young player's development?? How it might affect EJ, Duchene and Varly?

Most players, young player especially, lose their confidence the moment the losses start to pile up. So it becomes a vicious circle, of losing games, players losing their confidence, not developing properly, team losing some more games, guys dissapearing... draft high, bring another youngster full of potential, season starts, you lose some games to start the season, players lose their confidence... etc.
Do you think the Oilers will fall victim to that vicious circle as well? Or will they find a way to rise above?

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01-29-2013, 03:54 PM
  #154
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PL will eat Brian Burke before he hires him. He doesn't like him from the rumors out there years ago.
I'm sorry...I left out the smiley...I thought the big snake eat PL comment would've tipped my hand though.

Although...PL does allow some weird **** to go down...like the May signing...so who knows?

Do I really need to insert another sarcasm face here?

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01-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #155
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Was a winning coach in the minors, knew how to build a system and is now currently employed in Phoenix doing wonders for their special teams.

Bender, you make great points and I appreciate them. I guess I'm still trying to separate where I see the gap between Sherman/Lacroix. But we all do know Lacroix is far too ill to truly do everything still and any good GM would use a committee approach by getting the entire office's opinion before major decisions... I'm still leaning towards the ideas coming from Sherman orchestrating things like the EJ, McGinn trades whereas Lacroix simply giving him the go ahead.

Meanwhile someone like Sacco I could see him saying no on removing.

Speculation... of course.
I really don't know very much about his illness but the last time I saw him (Forsberg retirement ceremony) he looked ok to me. Like I said, I'm quite certain that Pierre Lacroix lets Greg Sherman handle all of the day-to-day operations of being a GM but when it comes to significant roster moves & trades, he has his say for sure. I'm quite certain he was involved on the EJ, Downie and McGinn deals. That's not to say that Sherman doesn't have his opinions but I just don't think he can up and decide to trade Ryan Wilson for a 3rd round pick, if he feels like it...for lack of a better example. Greg said it himself that they do things by committee, so Lacroix would be involved in that as well if that were to happen.

Now the decision to bring up Sgarbossa over Malone, that's the day-to-day stuff I'm talking about. That's how I see it, anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
The problem with that, is that it creates a losing mentality on a young team... Who knows how much, losing season after losing season, can impact a young player's development?? How it might affect EJ, Duchene and Varly?

Most players, young player especially, lose their confidence the moment the losses start to pile up. So it becomes a vicious circle, of losing games, players losing their confidence, not developing properly, team losing some more games, guys dissapearing... draft high, bring another youngster full of potential, season starts, you lose some games to start the season, players lose their confidence... etc.
I understand what you're saying but fortunately, the organization turns to Joe Sakic and asks him: "so Joe, were you emotionally scarred from all that losing with the Nordiques to the point where you became a giant loser?"

Sakic: "Nope"

"OK then."

There is too much being made of the losing culture stuff, in my opinion. Rebuilds happen, teams go through bad years. Are the Edmonton Oilers going to NOT become a powerhouse because they sucked LARGE for the past 4 years? I doubt it, they're going to become very hard to beat.

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01-29-2013, 05:06 PM
  #156
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I really don't know very much about his illness but the last time I saw him (Forsberg retirement ceremony) he looked ok to me. Like I said, I'm quite certain that Pierre Lacroix lets Greg Sherman handle all of the day-to-day operations of being a GM but when it comes to significant roster moves & trades, he has his say for sure. I'm quite certain he was involved on the EJ, Downie and McGinn deals. That's not to say that Sherman doesn't have his opinions but I just don't think he can up and decide to trade Ryan Wilson for a 3rd round pick, if he feels like it...for lack of a better example. Greg said it himself that they do things by committee, so Lacroix would be involved in that as well if that were to happen.

Now the decision to bring up Sgarbossa over Malone, that's the day-to-day stuff I'm talking about. That's how I see it, anyways.



I understand what you're saying but fortunately, the organization turns to Joe Sakic and asks him: "so Joe, were you emotionally scarred from all that losing with the Nordiques to the point where you became a giant loser?"

Sakic: "Nope"

"OK then."

There is too much being made of the losing culture stuff, in my opinion. Rebuilds happen, teams go through bad years. Are the Edmonton Oilers going to NOT become a powerhouse because they sucked LARGE for the past 4 years? I doubt it, they're going to become very hard to beat.

For every Nordiques, you have the Islanders, Columbus, Florida. The Oilers looks to be overcoming their deficiencies, but if emulating the Oliers was our plan, than Sherman, shouldn't have made that trade for Varlamov, might as well keep the 1st and waited until Pickard and Aittokallio were ready. By waiting we would have our pick, and it might have been a top 5.

The Oilers youngters have a lot more top end potential than ours, we lost a 1st last year and don't know if Hishon will have an NHL carrer. If that's how we plan to become a powerhouse, keep Sacco, trade Stastny for picks, and keep the D as it is.

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01-29-2013, 05:15 PM
  #157
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I'd rather have varlamov than yakupov.

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Old
01-29-2013, 05:20 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceberg View Post
For every Nordiques, you have the Islanders, Columbus, Florida. The Oilers looks to be overcoming their deficiencies, but if emulating the Oliers was our plan, than Sherman, shouldn't have made that trade for Varlamov, might as well keep the 1st and waited until Pickard and Aittokallio were ready. By waiting we would have our pick, and it might have been a top 5.
There's no guarantee that Pickard or Aittokallio will ever be NHL goalies, let alone starters.

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01-29-2013, 05:22 PM
  #159
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I'd rather have varlamov than yakupov.
Same here, Varly can become a top 5 goalie.

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01-29-2013, 07:36 PM
  #160
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You can't just look at an AHL record and claim he is better. Unless you actually watched the hawks AHL team and are in the PHX's locker room it is impossible to truly know. What we do know is he did nothing but potter along with the thrashers the way sacco is with Avs
Hawks AHL team?!
Anderson coached and won with the Chicago Wolves who at the time were Atlanta's AHL team (currently Vancouver's)

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01-29-2013, 08:23 PM
  #161
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You can't just look at an AHL record and claim he is better. Unless you actually watched the hawks AHL team and are in the PHX's locker room it is impossible to truly know. What we do know is he did nothing but potter along with the thrashers the way sacco is with Avs. Its crazy how mental even the more knowledgeable posters here get with Sacco. The team has much, much, much bigger problems then head coach. Pointless to waste a good coach on a below average team
I did watch them win the Calder cup, they were a phenomenally coached group of journeymen players. The likes of Darren Haydar, Boris Valabik, Brian Fahey, Brett Sterling and Jason Krug. Ondrej Pavelec backstopping them.

In fact, I wanted Anderson to coach the Avs BEFORE we selected Granato, posting on the official Avs Board about him.

He's just an example of a superior coach being cut loose for less. If I were Sherman my first two interviews would be him and Jon Cooper. Granted, I cant remember the last active coach in the NHL or AHL to leave their team midseason, so I'd promote Quinn temporarily.

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Old
01-30-2013, 04:13 PM
  #162
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So Sacco is juggling with new lines can't be long until he orders a bag skate

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01-30-2013, 04:40 PM
  #163
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So Sacco is juggling with new lines can't be long until he orders a bag skate
All I can hope for is that EJ isn't injured in the next bag skate.

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01-30-2013, 10:52 PM
  #164
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So in-game line juggling is back and why the ***** does Sacco insist on putting the 4th line out for anything up to the last 30 seconds of a PP? He does it every time!!! It just negates the last shift of the PP. It really is becoming a chore to watch this team.

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01-30-2013, 11:22 PM
  #165
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I hate this man... fire him already

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:03 AM
  #166
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It's so hard to be a fan of this team when ownership, gm, and the head coach are all chumps. At least other bad teams don't have the loser trifecta that the avs have.

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01-31-2013, 12:08 AM
  #167
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So in-game line juggling is back and why the ***** does Sacco insist on putting the 4th line out for anything up to the last 30 seconds of a PP? He does it every time!!! It just negates the last shift of the PP. It really is becoming a chore to watch this team.
Yeah... Oh and somehow Stastny ended up with 22:02 of ice time and Duchene 19:18... (Stastny spent 2M in the box as well..)

Oh and.. EJ only played 18:28 tonight? How the F.... does all of your best players ice time go down instead of up?

Are they trying to tank for Jones? I mean hes from Denver but how obvious do you really need to make it?

Oh yeah, FYI Hejda (Who was scratched and then HORRIBLE TONIGHT) got 18:35... Ahh ahh and just for an IMO, Sgarbossa has 13:29 and Jones played 18:49. How bad does Jones have to play to be REMOVED from the first line?

Sgarbossa, 1SOG 2HITS 1BLK 2FOW (Even on +/-)

Jones, -2 and 2SOG

Just saying...

(It's so fn OBVIOUS Sacco favors grinders over his actually talented players. What is it some kind of vindication because he was a grinder?)


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 01-31-2013 at 12:17 AM.
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01-31-2013, 12:15 AM
  #168
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I'm not sure how a GM that assembled that blue line can fire the coach? How can you go to ownership and say, well it isn't the team. The team is solid. Pay this guy to sit at home for a year and a half. It makes the management group look like morons. They won't fire him until next season after the all-star break.

And for the record, I hate Sacco. He is an idiot and needs to be shown the door.

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01-31-2013, 12:37 AM
  #169
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I can hardly stomach the thought of watching the Avs so long as Sacco is the coach. Last year he proved to me that he is not NHL material.

Any time the Avs win, it's because the team does so despite Sacco, not because of him.

While I'm not anti-Sherman, I honestly believe Kronke does not care about the Avs. And I am specifically referring to you Josh. Your protestations that you really care about the Avs winning are not borne out by your actions. What you say is utter crap (BS). Sign RoR, hire a real coach (do not re-up Sacco - that was stupid) and get a top defenseman to match EJ. Renovating the Can ain't gonna do it.

I was truly looking forward to the end of the lockout and seeing the Avs this season. But how can you be enthused about seeing the team with Sacco (big time loser).

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01-31-2013, 12:49 AM
  #170
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Sucko should've been fired after the meltdown of 2 years ago. Why people gave him a break is beyond me. It was a hot Anderson that got the avs into the playoffs the year before, not sucko.

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01-31-2013, 02:19 AM
  #171
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Actually, my opinion, in an age when petitions etc mean nothing, is that a call to arms from Avs fans occur, and people start to watch Avs games from local haunts, rather than Pepsi Center (helping local businesses).

If Colorado play in front of 50 fans, it is the only thing that Stan Kroenke will understand, because it affects his back pocket directly.

The more people provide their hard earned working dollars to Stan, the more it is ok to remain with the status quo. It really achieves nothing.

Stop giving the ownership of this team money, until it's owner realizes he has a sinking ship. Support the Avs. Support local businesses. At the same time, show this ownership they don't control you like puppets, easily quaffing you of your hard earned currency.

The power is with the fans. The problem in Colorado is there is never enough people behind a cause to make it happen.

Stan & Josh would just tear up a petition, and laugh off something like that, as they look at fans with disdain, and down their noses. If they start making heavy losses, they'll start "to get it".

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01-31-2013, 06:49 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Actually, my opinion, in an age when petitions etc mean nothing, is that a call to arms from Avs fans occur, and people start to watch Avs games from local haunts, rather than Pepsi Center (helping local businesses).

If Colorado play in front of 50 fans, it is the only thing that Stan Kroenke will understand, because it affects his back pocket directly.

The more people provide their hard earned working dollars to Stan, the more it is ok to remain with the status quo. It really achieves nothing.

Stop giving the ownership of this team money, until it's owner realizes he has a sinking ship. Support the Avs. Support local businesses. At the same time, show this ownership they don't control you like puppets, easily quaffing you of your hard earned currency.

The power is with the fans. The problem in Colorado is there is never enough people behind a cause to make it happen.

Stan & Josh would just tear up a petition, and laugh off something like that, as they look at fans with disdain, and down their noses. If they start making heavy losses, they'll start "to get it".
Pepsi Center could remain empty the rest of the season and the Kroenkes would still not care heck do they even know the lockout is over? The Avs payroll and expenses is pocket money for Stan, he is involved in other "projects" these days like Arsenal and Rams and is only keeping Avs because if he sold Avs he would probably have to sell his son's special toy Nuggets as part of the deal too and then poor Josh would cry... Sadly we seem stuck with them as owners.

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01-31-2013, 06:56 AM
  #173
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Sacco has already survived more than any coach I can think of, he'll sadly survive the season.

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01-31-2013, 11:33 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
Actually, my opinion, in an age when petitions etc mean nothing, is that a call to arms from Avs fans occur, and people start to watch Avs games from local haunts, rather than Pepsi Center (helping local businesses).

If Colorado play in front of 50 fans, it is the only thing that Stan Kroenke will understand, because it affects his back pocket directly.

The more people provide their hard earned working dollars to Stan, the more it is ok to remain with the status quo. It really achieves nothing.

Stop giving the ownership of this team money, until it's owner realizes he has a sinking ship. Support the Avs. Support local businesses. At the same time, show this ownership they don't control you like puppets, easily quaffing you of your hard earned currency.

The power is with the fans. The problem in Colorado is there is never enough people behind a cause to make it happen.

Stan & Josh would just tear up a petition, and laugh off something like that, as they look at fans with disdain, and down their noses. If they start making heavy losses, they'll start "to get it".
Quote:
Originally Posted by benzino View Post
Pepsi Center could remain empty the rest of the season and the Kroenkes would still not care heck do they even know the lockout is over? The Avs payroll and expenses is pocket money for Stan, he is involved in other "projects" these days like Arsenal and Rams and is only keeping Avs because if he sold Avs he would probably have to sell his son's special toy Nuggets as part of the deal too and then poor Josh would cry... Sadly we seem stuck with them as owners.
Truth of the matter is, the minute he feels some kinda of pain regarding the AVs attendance the first move would be to limit the number of games available on TV....say hello to blackouts for all games not sold out.

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01-31-2013, 11:39 AM
  #175
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Seems like a really bad idea... but Stastny played great at the WC.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=627305
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Toronto Maple Leafs assistant coach Scott Gordon will coach the team.
Can anyone confirm or deny how decent of a coach Gordon might be? I never watched him in NYI.

My top two still are John Anderson and Jon Cooper.

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