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[MEM/TOR] Rudy Gay for Ed Davis and Jose Calderon

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01-30-2013, 10:28 PM
  #26
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Gay's contract is pretty bad but he's a quality player

Could see him averaging 20+ ppg with the Raptors

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01-30-2013, 11:07 PM
  #27
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I don't understand the hate for Gay and this trade on the Raps' side. For a league that lives and dies by star players, Gay is probably the 5th or 6th best player in the East now, and the Raps have him.
The problem is that Gay is a bad fit. He's in consistent defensively, he has a very iffy outside game and his only real skill is driving the net to score in the paint. In other words, he's a better Derozan, and in a league where complementary players is everything, redundancies make for poor teams. So now they have two wing players that are the teams two best players but wont work well together. And this is something Colangelo has never understood, it's Jose and Hedo all over again.

What's more, they gave up one of their more promising players, a player who has great chemistry with the team and plays his position well. It also means they are still committed to Bargnani who is a pretty bad player.

And Gay is not that good. He's at best one of the top 5 small forwards in the East. Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, and Luol Deng are all superior players.

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01-31-2013, 12:11 AM
  #28
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The problem is that Gay is a bad fit.
Gay is a star. Raptors need a star. square peg, square hole.

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He's in consistent defensively, he has a very iffy outside game and his only real skill is driving the net to score in the paint.In other words, he's a better Derozan
He's a career 45% shooter, which is good for a scorer, and a 34% 3-point shooter, which is acceptable. He's a much better DeRozan, which means the best player on the team just got a lot better, which leads to the next point...

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and in a league where complementary players is everything
You forgot the part where the team needs the star player first for those complimentary players to be effective. Without the star player, you end up like the Raptors

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So now they have two wing players that are the teams two best players but wont work well together. And this is something Colangelo has never understood, it's Jose and Hedo all over again.
DeRozan can be the 6th man off the bench, which is a role he's more suited for than to be the go-to guy.

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What's more, they gave up one of their more promising players, a player who has great chemistry with the team and plays his position well. It also means they are still committed to Bargnani who is a pretty bad player.
Gay is only three years older than Davis, and at Davis' age, Gay was already scoring nearly 20 points a game.

Davis will be fortunate to end up anywhere near as good of a player as Gay is.

As for Bargnani, having Gay as a legitimate #1 option may help Bargnani to keep his game simple. Just get open and knock down those open 3's.

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And Gay is not that good. He's at best one of the top 5 small forwards in the East. Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George, and Luol Deng are all superior players.
As of now, I would put Gay over Deng and George. George doesn't shoot well enough and while Deng is a great all-around player, I think Gay is better-suited to be a #1 option than Deng.

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01-31-2013, 12:33 AM
  #29
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Good to land Gay, but I'm really sorry to see Calderon leave. He played hard for the team and was a class act all the while that he was here.

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01-31-2013, 12:56 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
I don't understand the hate for Gay and this trade on the Raps' side. For a league that lives and dies by star players, Gay is probably the 5th or 6th best player in the East now, and the Raps have him.
He barely cracks the top 15.

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Great job by Toronto avoiding giving up DeRozan.
If they liked Gay that much, it might have been better to give up DeRozan. Ross would get more minutes and they would be able to keep Davis.

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01-31-2013, 01:10 AM
  #31
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He barely cracks the top 15.



If they liked Gay that much, it might have been better to give up DeRozan. Ross would get more minutes and they would be able to keep Davis.
THIS

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:41 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Gay is a star. Raptors need a star. square peg, square hole.
Gay is not a star. He's a good player, and he is the Raptor's best player, but he is not good enough to be a star. It's acting like players like Gay are stars that leave teams spinning their wheels in no man's land.

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01-31-2013, 06:29 AM
  #33
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I wouldn't have given up on Davis yet... especially not with what he's shown thus far. with the acquisition of gay (if mandatory) i probably would have moved one of derozan or ross as they are the strength of the organization. ultimately bargnani is who needs to go!

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01-31-2013, 09:02 AM
  #34
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Raps need to move wings for bigs.

Can't hate the trade too much for Raps. Yeah, big salary and not a positional need, but he's the best offensive player since Bosh, and the best perimeter scorer and slasher since Vince.

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01-31-2013, 09:33 AM
  #35
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At least Toronto is trying. The only problem is now they have a surplus of swingmen.

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01-31-2013, 09:55 AM
  #36
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I haven't watched many Raptors games this year but from what I've seen and looking at his stats, I don't see how Davis is having a breakout year like some people in here are saying. His RPG, FG%, and BPG are all lower than they were in his rookie year. His FT% is lower than last year. He's averaging 2ppg more then his previous high but I don't think those 2pts are going to win many games.

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01-31-2013, 10:08 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
Gay is not a star. He's a good player, and he is the Raptor's best player, but he is not good enough to be a star. It's acting like players like Gay are stars that leave teams spinning their wheels in no man's land.
It's not like the Raps are doing anything better as of right now.

Gay isn't a guy you go on deep playoff runs with or win championships with, but he definitely gets them to the playoffs next season. He's not a franchise player, but it's not exactly easy getting one of those. Gay is in the Joe Johnson (when he was a Hawk), LaMarcus Aldridge group of players who are a tier below the superstars, but they can lead teams to the playoffs. That's not a terrible position to be in if you're the Raptors, who haven't made the playoffs in a long time. I'm sure they would love to be first round fodder for anybody.

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01-31-2013, 10:16 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
that one video of the raptor fan screaming about how they have to guard rudy gay (he makes the game winning shot) is one of the funniest things i have ever .
Oh yes I wonder what that guys reaction upon hearing the trade was.

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01-31-2013, 11:11 AM
  #39
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As of now, I would put Gay over Deng and George. George doesn't shoot well enough and while Deng is a great all-around player, I think Gay is better-suited to be a #1 option than Deng.


Rudy Gay is the pure definition of mediocre. He is, and never will be on the same level as George or Deng. Rudy Gay plays no defense what so ever and takes shots away from players who can actually shoot.

The Raptors got robbed in this trade because now they have to spend all that money on Gays contract.

Why is it when a Toronto team makes a trade it is possibly the greatest trade in the history of sport when reality says something else?

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01-31-2013, 12:04 PM
  #40
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Rudy Gay is the pure definition of mediocre. He is, and never will be on the same level as George or Deng. Rudy Gay plays no defense what so ever and takes shots away from players who can actually shoot.

The Raptors got robbed in this trade because now they have to spend all that money on Gays contract.

Why is it when a Toronto team makes a trade it is possibly the greatest trade in the history of sport when reality says something else?
Gay is a career 45% shooter. Deng shoots 46% and George is shooting somewhere near 43%.

And nobody said its the greatest trade in the history of sports. You're the first one to bring up that subject. Over-exaggerate much?

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:08 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by kanuck87 View Post
Gay is a career 45% shooter. Deng shoots 46% and George is shooting somewhere near 43%.

And nobody said its the greatest trade in the history of sports. You're the first one to bring up that subject. Over-exaggerate much?
Don't even bother he knows when Toronto is involved with something there will be plenty of fans flocking to have a discussion about it, and he will get a big reaction by posting something negative about toronto

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01-31-2013, 12:11 PM
  #42
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Don't even bother he knows when Toronto is involved with something there will be plenty of fans flocking to have a discussion about it, and he will get a big reaction by posting something negative about toronto
I'm far from a fan of any Toronto sports team, but I call it like I see it. The Raps made out well to get Gay.

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01-31-2013, 12:51 PM
  #43
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It's not like the Raps are doing anything better as of right now.

Gay isn't a guy you go on deep playoff runs with or win championships with, but he definitely gets them to the playoffs next season. He's not a franchise player, but it's not exactly easy getting one of those. Gay is in the Joe Johnson (when he was a Hawk), LaMarcus Aldridge group of players who are a tier below the superstars, but they can lead teams to the playoffs. That's not a terrible position to be in if you're the Raptors, who haven't made the playoffs in a long time. I'm sure they would love to be first round fodder for anybody.
Fair enough.

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Old
01-31-2013, 03:24 PM
  #44
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Gay is a career 45% shooter. Deng shoots 46% and George is shooting somewhere near 43%.
And? Deng also is one of the best defensive players in the game and a much better three point shooter while George is a much better three point shooter and hey, better defensively then Gay. Gay also has that selfish problem of putting his own stats ahead of his team. Toronto can have that problem considering they are one of the bottom feeders of the league and are now on the hook for what, 30 million over the next two years?
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And nobody said its the greatest trade in the history of sports. You're the first one to bring up that subject. Over-exaggerate much?
Thinking Gay is anything but a mediocre talent is over exaggeration.

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01-31-2013, 05:15 PM
  #45
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And? Deng also is one of the best defensive players in the game and a much better three point shooter while George is a much better three point shooter and hey, better defensively then Gay. Gay also has that selfish problem of putting his own stats ahead of his team. Toronto can have that problem considering they are one of the bottom feeders of the league and are now on the hook for what, 30 million over the next two years?

Thinking Gay is anything but a mediocre talent is over exaggeration.
That's funny. His stats are comparable to George and Deng in many many ways. Gay is a career 34% 3-pt shooter. Deng's at 35%, and George is at 38%, but shoots a lower overall FG%. Does that make George and Deng mediocre as well? Gay is easily one of the 25-30 best players in the league, out of 300+ players. There must be a whole lot of mediocrity going on in the NBA.

Deng and George are better all-around players, but Gay scores more than those guys while shooting roughly the same %. As a #1 option, I would want the guy who scores more over the guy who does everything well. You can find other guys who defend, rebound, etc, but a scorer who can find his own shot like Gay can while also doing a bit of the other stuff is invaluable. He's a decent rebounder and he's a good defender. I have no idea where you get the notion that he's a bad defender. He's a tall, lanky defender who is capable of defending three positions.

And who cares how much money he makes. The NBA has a soft cap, and The Raps would not have had any chance to attract a top-tier free agent, ever.

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01-31-2013, 05:26 PM
  #46
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I would like to see some real stats to prove that Gay isn't a really good player, but I know I won't get that in this argument, if the past is any indication.

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01-31-2013, 06:09 PM
  #47
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02-01-2013, 03:09 AM
  #48
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I haven't watched many Raptors games this year but from what I've seen and looking at his stats, I don't see how Davis is having a breakout year like some people in here are saying. His RPG, FG%, and BPG are all lower than they were in his rookie year. His FT% is lower than last year. He's averaging 2ppg more then his previous high but I don't think those 2pts are going to win many games.
He's only been getting starter minutes since December 12th. These are his numbers as a starter:

13.0 PPG
7.7 RPG
1.8 APG
0.6 SPG
1.0 BPG
55.4 FG%

The guy has been getting better and better as well. There are his stats in the last nine games:

14.7 PPG
8.2 RPG
2.0 APG
0.4 SPG
1.1 BPG
56.2 FG%

It isn't a significant difference by any means statistically, but he is clearly becoming a lot more comfortable on the court and I think it bothers some that they are trading a guy who is seemingly starting to show the potential that they have been looking for the last few years. Also doesn't help that they are adding a player who plays the same as the current best player.


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Old
02-01-2013, 04:06 AM
  #49
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And? Deng also is one of the best defensive players in the game and a much better three point shooter while George is a much better three point shooter and hey, better defensively then Gay. Gay also has that selfish problem of putting his own stats ahead of his team. Toronto can have that problem considering they are one of the bottom feeders of the league and are now on the hook for what, 30 million over the next two years?

Thinking Gay is anything but a mediocre talent is over exaggeration.
Deng career 3 point % 33.7
Gay career 3 point % 34.4

Ya Luol Deng is a MUCH better three point shooter

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02-01-2013, 04:07 AM
  #50
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He's only been getting starter minutes since December 12th. These are his numbers as a starter:

13.0 PPG
7.7 RPG
1.8 APG
0.6 SPG
1.0 BPG
55.4 FG%

The guy has been getting better and better as well. There are his stats in the last nine games:

14.7 PPG
8.2 RPG
2.0 APG
0.4 SPG
1.1 BPG
56.2 FG%

It isn't a significant difference by any means statistically, but he is clearly becoming a lot more comfortable on the court and I think it bothers some that they are trading a guy who is seemingly starting to show the potential that they have been looking for the last few years. Also doesn't help that they are adding a player who plays the same as the current best player.
Who's the Raps current best player?

Gay plays SF

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