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Pull the plug and be done with it.... (Coyotes)

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:56 PM
  #26
The Big Giant Head
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Thats a big bummer, sad for coyote fans. We finally established a REAL rivalry with another team and now they're moving. oh well...well have to piss someone else off this year in the playoffs i guess...

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01-31-2013, 02:02 PM
  #27
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Thats a big bummer, sad for coyote fans. We finally established a REAL rivalry with another team and now they're moving. oh well...well have to piss someone else off this year in the playoffs i guess...
That's why I hope they move to Seattle. Seattle and LA have always had rivalries in other sports.

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01-31-2013, 02:05 PM
  #28
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I liek to see them move to Seatle so that we can have a true pacific division (birng in Vancouver kick out Dallas).
If not there than probably a team in Markham makes them most sense financially for the NHL.

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01-31-2013, 02:07 PM
  #29
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Thats a big bummer, sad for coyote fans. We finally established a REAL rivalry with another team and now they're moving. oh well...well have to piss someone else off this year in the playoffs i guess...
I vote we royally piss off a team from the Eastern Conference in the playoffs this season. 4 times.

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01-31-2013, 02:12 PM
  #30
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KC i say shouldn't be a top candidate. it may make sense geographically, but they had a team decades ago and it folded. '74-76 expansion with the Caps. sold and moved to become the Colorado Rockies.

i was to young to remember at the time so, "The Scouts suffered from inflated player costs, undercapitalized ownership, an economic downturn in the Midwest, poor performance on the ice and poor attendance. The Scouts drew an average of just 8,218 fans during their two years in 17,000-seat Kemper Arena (at a time when the league average was approximately 13,000). The team's 37 owners, buried in debt, mounted a season-ticket drive to raise more revenue. However, when only 2,000 people bought tickets, they concluded that the Scouts were not a viable venture and opted to sell". FROM WIKI

to me this is Atlanta all over again, so its up to me the NHL doesnt go to KC.
Mehhh. 40 years ago almost is a long time ago. As well, I think only being there for 2-3 years isn't enough time to properly judge things, not to mention I can't imagine it was easy to make a lot of key decisions having a 37 person ownership board. I can't see how that'd run smoothly.

I think the real key to making things work in a non-traditional hockey market is hitting the ground running. See Dallas and Colorado. Sure, they are struggling some now due to weaker teams, but theya ren't floundering and talking about moving. I suspect if Atlanta had been able to do anything successful, they'd have done much better, but 13 years and only one playoff berth (which was a seep at that) does nothing to build a market. You need to sell the game to fans and excitement sells. Watching the home team lose most nights, whether it's 1-0 or 9-7 doesn't sell.

The same principal is applying to Columbus now. They aren't strong attendance wise, and it's not shocking giving they have only made the playoffs once as well, and were also swept.

Moving a team like Phoenix to KC would conceivably work better because that's a team which should have immediate success, based on their past 2-3 seasons. Putting expansion teams into the south isn't a good idea IMO, but relocating an already established team there is much better.

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I think the Seattle soccer team draws close to 40k a game. I dont think they would have a problem with drawing for hockey. Its a pretty under rated sports town.
I agree 100%. The Winterhawks and Thunderbirds do very well attendance wise. I thought I heard one of them drew something like 10,000 a night in the regular season. And that's the WHL.


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01-31-2013, 02:18 PM
  #31
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i never hear Salt Lake being brought up. the city has had the Golden Eagles for decades and i know the amateur presence has grown considerably. i live there back around '80 and played. at that time there were 3 rinks to play on and one was the old Salt Palace the Jazz and G Eagles played in. now they have numerous rinks, Jr teams and an actual high school league for puck. the city keeps growing, the game has obviously grown and the only team there is the Jazz.
I was thinking SLC too. Maybe the Mormon Church could buy them as an investment?

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01-31-2013, 02:21 PM
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I was thinking SLC too. Maybe the Mormon Church could buy them as an investment?
Ohhhh...the promotion ideas are endless.

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01-31-2013, 02:22 PM
  #33
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The nice thing is there is some options. I think the best thing for the leagues image though is to start going with markets that you know have a great chance of working (Toronto for example) rather than rolling the dice on a Kansas City or Vegas. I'd be fine with them going to those markets as well, but giving the way things have looked in some of these markets where hockey was giving a chance to fly but either failed or have arenas 1/2 full at best (Phoenix, Florida, etc.) it would likely do the league best to make sure every arena is packed full first.

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01-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #34
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I think the NHL experiments into the South are over. This is just my opinion though.

Dallas is barely above water. Florida and Tampa Bay, despite solid seasons in recent years and marketable players (Stamkos) can't seem to stay relevant. Atlanta had to relocate.

North is probably a better shot right now at making money and growing the sport.

The Oregon/Washington area is a good place to start if you want to see American hockey grow. I mean, Portland Winterhawks, Seattle Thunderbirds, the Everett Silvertips, Tri-City Americans...they all do very well for junior teams in the area in terms of attendance and interest.
i am with jason, keep the team on the left coast. there is a long time history of Jr hockey succeeding. adding an NHL team will strengthen it further in all likelihood.

it also helps with the needed realignment, sorry NHLPA but HAS to happen. this is one thing they are wrong about.
*PHX moves to either SEA or POR and remains in the Pacific/West
*WPG moves to the Central/West
*NSH moves to the Southeast/East

this keeps the conf's and divisions equally structured. even more i would like to see the proposed 4 division plan executed, with 2 divisions in each conference. bring back the old adams, patrick, norris and smythe division names and format. this helps ease the alignment and travel further.

East
Adams
BOS, BUF, MTL, OTT, NYR, NYI, NJD

Patrick
PIT, PHI, WSH, TOR, TB, NSH, FLA, CAR

West
Norris
CHI, DET, STL, MIN, CLB, DAL, WPG

Smythe
LA, ANH, SJ, CAL, EDM, SEA/POR (PHX), VAN, COL

something along these lines, but with some tinkering.

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01-31-2013, 02:31 PM
  #35
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Arena in Salt Lake is too small as a hockey building.

Phoenix should go to QC, Winnipeg can join the West.

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01-31-2013, 02:33 PM
  #36
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I was thinking SLC too. Maybe the Mormon Church could buy them as an investment?
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Ohhhh...the promotion ideas are endless.
you would have to overcome the possible issue of families giving 10% of their income to the church. this definitely cuts into disposable income that could be spent on games, but.....

sell a block of STH seats to a large mormon family. "i will need 10 tickets please" j/k

i lived there for 3-years and there are some good people there. the mormon religion is no stranger than any other one, they all have their idiosyncracies

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01-31-2013, 02:35 PM
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Putting expansion teams into the south isn't a good idea IMO, but relocating an already established team there is much better.
An even worse idea is expanding and relocating to the south, and then grouping those teams together by themselves.

Look at the SE division. It has a team that was kicked out of the former Patrick division, what was at the time 3 recent expansion franchises, and a relocated Hartford Whaler franchise. That division had nothing going for it. No history, no rivalries, 4 southern teams. It doesn't even register with fans in the northeast until playoff time when they complain about seeding.

Not all that different in the Pacific division either. The Kings have been fairly irrelevant for most of their history(even Gretzky was gone by 1998), grouped with what were 2 recent expansion teams, and the relocated Jets and North Stars.

No O6 teams, no Canadian teams. Other than Nashville, that's the NHL's southern expansion grouped together in two divisions that nobody really cares about.

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01-31-2013, 02:40 PM
  #38
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An even worse idea is expanding and relocating to the south, and then grouping those teams together by themselves.

Look at the SE division. It has a team that was kicked out of the former Patrick division, what was at the time 3 recent expansion franchises, and a relocated Hartford Whaler franchise. That division had nothing going for it. No history, no rivalries, 4 southern teams. It doesn't even register with fans in the northeast until playoff time when they complain about seeding.

Not all that different in the Pacific division either. The Kings have been fairly irrelevant for most of their history(even Gretzky was gone by 1998), grouped with what were 2 recent expansion teams, and the relocated Jets and North Stars.

No O6 teams, no Canadian teams. Other than Nashville, that's the NHL's southern expansion grouped together in two divisions that nobody really cares about.
I agree. Moving an established team to a southern market I think can work well, but yes, if you are just lumping a bunch of reject and starter teams together, there's no drawing point. It's hard to get excited as a Nashville fan in the first few years if say Anaheim comes to town. If Toronto or the Rangers come to town though, much better, and not just because those teams have fans elsewhere. those teams have names which even non-hockey fans have heard of and recognize.

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01-31-2013, 03:11 PM
  #39
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An even worse idea is expanding and relocating to the south, and then grouping those teams together by themselves.

Look at the SE division. It has a team that was kicked out of the former Patrick division, what was at the time 3 recent expansion franchises, and a relocated Hartford Whaler franchise. That division had nothing going for it. No history, no rivalries, 4 southern teams. It doesn't even register with fans in the northeast until playoff time when they complain about seeding.

Not all that different in the Pacific division either. The Kings have been fairly irrelevant for most of their history(even Gretzky was gone by 1998), grouped with what were 2 recent expansion teams, and the relocated Jets and North Stars.

No O6 teams, no Canadian teams. Other than Nashville, that's the NHL's southern expansion grouped together in two divisions that nobody really cares about.
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I agree. Moving an established team to a southern market I think can work well, but yes, if you are just lumping a bunch of reject and starter teams together, there's no drawing point. It's hard to get excited as a Nashville fan in the first few years if say Anaheim comes to town. If Toronto or the Rangers come to town though, much better, and not just because those teams have fans elsewhere. those teams have names which even non-hockey fans have heard of and recognize.
that is one way to look at it, but look at it from another way.

regional and nearby rivalries will grow. teams are more likely to be rivals and in time draw fans when they play often.

all one has to do is look at the SEC in football. they played and grew that conference for decades and really only played each other. now they are dominant and have some of the greatest rivalries in college football.

ive also said the NHL needs to look at its scheduling to help with this.
*every year each team plays cross conference twice, so there is both a H and an A game. this way fans see every team at least once in their home market. it's a joke they moved away from this.
*reduce the amount of games played in conference, but against non-division teams
*remainder is focused entirely on divisional play only
*two divisions in each conference from the realignment
*playoffs remain with 8 teams per conference, the top 8 qualifying teams by pts and W-L record
*top 8 teams qualify for the playoffs. there is NO auto-qualifier that seeds you into the PO's because of division or conference. you win, you get in. so you better take care of business against the teams in your division more than ever

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01-31-2013, 03:27 PM
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Phoenix is one of the top TV markets in the U.S., so I get what Bettman was trying to do. Moving the team out to an arena in Glendale was a huge mistake. It needed to be centrally located. Phoenix is not like LA where people don't seem to mind the drive.

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01-31-2013, 03:34 PM
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Phoenix is one of the top TV markets in the U.S., so I get what Bettman was trying to do. Moving the team out to an arena in Glendale was a huge mistake. It needed to be centrally located. Phoenix is not like LA where people don't seem to mind the drive.
US Airways Center is not built for hockey. What other choices would they have had?

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01-31-2013, 03:35 PM
  #42
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Phoenix is one of the top TV markets in the U.S., so I get what Bettman was trying to do. Moving the team out to an arena in Glendale was a huge mistake. It needed to be centrally located. Phoenix is not like LA where people don't seem to mind the drive.
i used to buy into that but i call bs on that.

1)the stadium they built for the Cards is next to the arena. i don't see them struggling at the gates.

2) it's 18.5 miles from downtown city center and the old arena down there to the new rink. that's a 15 minute - 30 minute drive with traffic. i used to drive an hour plus from Fullerton to the Stapler in LA rush hour to get to games

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01-31-2013, 03:44 PM
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that is one way to look at it, but look at it from another way.

regional and nearby rivalries will grow. teams are more likely to be rivals and in time draw fans when they play often.

all one has to do is look at the SEC in football. they played and grew that conference for decades and really only played each other. now they are dominant and have some of the greatest rivalries in college football.
And that could happen. But it's also decades as you put it, and that's assume each market works out. That didn't happen here, at least not thus far, given how Phoenix is.

I'd rather see established teams in each conference joined by relocated markets, with expansion limited to the northern states, Canada, or rarely markets where there is no major pro teams in place already, such as Vegas. Rivalries that last form usually on the back of geographical basis anyways. Look at Colorado and Detroit, they were one of the biggest rivalries for about 10 years due to their collective excellence combined with playoff run-ins and the whole Claude Lemieux thing. Now that rivalry isn't relevant, as Colorado has fallen off, they haven't met in the playoffs for years and all the players involved have moved on. The rivalries people talk about are the geographical ones. Even those fans here who say they don't think we have a rivalry with San jose and Anaheim, look at the cheering that goes on when we beat those teams, it's always higher. And it sure stung a lot more when Anaheim won the Stanley Cup than any other team in the first 44 years of the Kings existance (minus Montreal in 1993 for obvious reasons).

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01-31-2013, 03:52 PM
  #44
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They just make a point to block any sales that involve moving the team. This could have been over and done with years ago.

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01-31-2013, 04:23 PM
  #45
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Jamison's attempt to purchase the Coyotes falls apart......again. the "tenuous lease agreement" he hashed out with the city is being voided. seriously this has to end at some point. it's bad for the hardcore faithful down there, but this is to the point of ridiculous now.

the city and most fans don't give two ***** about the team. all one has to do is see the stands during a game to determine that. it wouldn't surprise me if some WNBA teams can outdraw the Yotes.

it was a noble effort and try to keep the team there and truly establish hockey in the market. i am certain there is a growing hockey atmosphere in the area, that in years down the road will help to truly establish a franchise in the area.

it's time to look at relocation. either to Seattle or back to Quebec. personally i would like to see the Nordiques back in play. i am also skeptical that both SEA and VAN could support two teams in such proximity (150 miles). i dont know much about the market and atmosphere up there so i may be wrong. i know there are several Jr teams in the market other than that i dont know squat about it.

any move is also going to have to bring the question of realignment into immediate discussion and most importantly - resolution. we can't have WPG still playing in the east conf - SE division.
The best thing the Cryotes could do is move to another area of Phoenix.. preferably Scottsdale or downtown. Building the arena in Glendale was a mistake from the beginning.

One bummer in this whole relocation thing is that the jobing.com arena is the centerpiece of the Westgate entertainment complex. (Imagine L.A. Live with an empty Staples Center and Nokia Center) What are they going to put there when the Cryotes leave?

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01-31-2013, 04:23 PM
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US Airways Center is not built for hockey. What other choices would they have had?
Why did they choose Glendale over Scottsdale?

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01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
  #47
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i used to buy into that but i call bs on that.

1)the stadium they built for the Cards is next to the arena. i don't see them struggling at the gates.

2) it's 18.5 miles from downtown city center and the old arena down there to the new rink. that's a 15 minute - 30 minute drive with traffic. i used to drive an hour plus from Fullerton to the Stapler in LA rush hour to get to games
1) NFL games are "EVENTS" that occur eight times a year on a Saturday, Sunday, or Monday night.

2) Like I said, people in Phoenix don't do traffic.

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Why did they choose Glendale over Scottsdale?
Why are these decisions ever made? Some taxpayers are more willing to provide public funds for a stadium than others.

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01-31-2013, 04:29 PM
  #48
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KC i say shouldn't be a top candidate. it may make sense geographically, but they had a team decades ago and it folded. '74-76 expansion with the Caps. sold and moved to become the Colorado Rockies.

i was to young to remember at the time so, "The Scouts suffered from inflated player costs, undercapitalized ownership, an economic downturn in the Midwest, poor performance on the ice and poor attendance. The Scouts drew an average of just 8,218 fans during their two years in 17,000-seat Kemper Arena (at a time when the league average was approximately 13,000). The team's 37 owners, buried in debt, mounted a season-ticket drive to raise more revenue. However, when only 2,000 people bought tickets, they concluded that the Scouts were not a viable venture and opted to sell". FROM WIKI

to me this is Atlanta all over again, so its up to me the NHL doesnt go to KC.
Colorado had a team before as well. Just because a city had a team and lost it doesn't mean they can't successfully return there. The logistics of a team in KC are sexy for Avs, Blues, and Stars fans.

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01-31-2013, 04:30 PM
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We have more activity regarding the coyotes on our board then the coyotes do on theirs. Guys stop. Its getting embarrassing. Mod Lock please.

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01-31-2013, 04:33 PM
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I was thinking SLC too. Maybe the Mormon Church could buy them as an investment?
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Ohhhh...the promotion ideas are endless.
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