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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXXI - Nobody Loves Raymond Edition

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:10 AM
  #676
Ronning On Empty
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
I disagree about Kessel. A guy with that combination of speed/shot is exactly the kind of opportunistic player you need in the playoffs. He can create his offense out of thin air.

I think he's criminally underrated because of the trade he was involved in. At his age and production, he should be heralded as one of the best/most exciting young players in the league. It's a shame he isn't because of how he was acquired.


Looks like we won't agree on the playoffs bit. Regular season, sure. But in the playoffs, with the way it's being called right now, he wouldn't even be allowed 10 ft near the net to create anything.


If he can create offense out of thin air from the perimeter, sure. But since that's unlikely...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
Kessel is a wet napkin that is afraid of corners and allergic to back-checking. I really don't see him as a fit as long as AV is around. This guy is as soft as it gets in this league. But I do see the fit with Kesler provided we put someone like Raymond that will back-check on the other wing. I just personally wouldn't surrender anything close to the asking price. We need to get more grit in this line-up, Kessel does not accomplish this in any way. He's got great hands and a accurate shot though, so he would help with any offensive issues, I just don't see it as a fit.


I'm more in line with Reign's thinking here.


Don't get me wrong, if the cap wasn't a factor and the price was very reasonable, why not? But I don't think those two things break in our favour, let alone other things playoff related.

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01-31-2013, 10:11 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
Absolutely, kessel's value might also be at an all-time low due to the expectations put on him by burke and if he's available you're not going to acquire a better player in a goaltending deal


There's no way TOR let's Kessel go for Luongo. If that were the case, Lu would be gone yesterday.

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01-31-2013, 10:14 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
There's no way TOR let's Kessel go for Luongo. If that were the case, Lu would be gone yesterday.
I actually like Kessel, but I really wonder whether Gillis would have made that deal.

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01-31-2013, 10:20 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
There's no way TOR let's Kessel go for Luongo. If that were the case, Lu would be gone yesterday.
oh for sure, it would have to be a loungo+ deal, and i highly doubt the leafs have any interest in trading him despite the beginning of the toronto media speculation

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01-31-2013, 10:25 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Looks like we won't agree on the playoffs bit. Regular season, sure. But in the playoffs, with the way it's being called right now, he wouldn't even be allowed 10 ft near the net to create anything.


If he can create offense out of thin air from the perimeter, sure. But since that's unlikely...
Two things spring to mind.

1.) I was referring to off-the-rush chances on broken plays. Kesler is good about getting up ice this way: having someone like Kessel to pass to would be a huge addition.

2.) Kessel has a great shot. He doesn't need to carry the puck into the difficult areas. He'd just need to spring on loose pucks created by Kesler (who does that exceptionally well) and get those pucks on net. He could do that easily, I think.

I'm not even suggesting this as a Luongo trade, mind you. It's a non-starter. I'm just giving my opinion on Kessel.

However, if Toronto decided to rebuild and Kessel wasn't going to stick around, I'd certainly offer them quite a package of prospects for him. Probably something like, "Choose any 4 prospects/draft picks you want that aren't named Jensen".

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01-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Two things spring to mind.

1.) I was referring to off-the-rush chances on broken plays. Kesler is good about getting up ice this way: having someone like Kessel to pass to would be a huge addition.

2.) Kessel has a great shot. He doesn't need to carry the puck into the difficult areas. He'd just need to spring on loose pucks created by Kesler (who does that exceptionally well) and get those pucks on net. He could do that easily, I think.

I'm not even suggesting this as a Luongo trade, mind you. It's a non-starter. I'm just giving my opinion on Kessel.

However, if Toronto decided to rebuild and Kessel wasn't going to stick around, I'd certainly offer them quite a package of prospects for him. Probably something like, "Choose any 4 prospects/draft picks you want that aren't named Jensen".


Kessel vs. the wingers we have no not named Daniel, yeah, he'd make a great addition. I think he would be cancelled out more often than we would like, but players like him find a way to contribute. It's just all the other stuff like price, sustainability, team direction (size), lack of defense etc... He's a great supplementary piece.


Beyond that, I don't think VAN could take a hit like that to their already middling/poor pipeline.


But back to Lu. A Kessel deal for futures might actually make it easier for TOR give up futures to get Luongo, if they still wanted him.

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01-31-2013, 11:08 AM
  #682
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Boychuk picked up by the Pens. Canucks were last in line so who knows if we had interest or not.

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01-31-2013, 11:18 AM
  #683
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..and the Leafs pick up Frazer McLaren instead. The more things change the more they stay the same.

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01-31-2013, 11:22 AM
  #684
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Boychuk picked up by the Pens. Canucks were last in line so who knows if we had interest or not.
Not sure if he'd be any upgrade over Schroeder. Might have been use on the Wolves but I'd think we'd have better uses for that contract spot. Reason why I don't see the need to "protect" a guy like Ebbett from waivers. These types of players always seem available throughout the season. At the very least, available for a late, late round pick.

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01-31-2013, 11:30 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Not sure if he'd be any upgrade over Schroeder. Might have been use on the Wolves but I'd think we'd have better uses for that contract spot. Reason why I don't see the need to "protect" a guy like Ebbett from waivers. These types of players always seem available throughout the season. At the very least, available for a late, late round pick.
I think it's more so about him being an upgrade on Ebbett and possibly having the upside to outplay someone like Raymond. He's a LW so not in competition with Schroeder at all.

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01-31-2013, 01:17 PM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Kessel vs. the wingers we have no not named Daniel, yeah, he'd make a great addition. I think he would be cancelled out more often than we would like, but players like him find a way to contribute. It's just all the other stuff like price, sustainability, team direction (size), lack of defense etc... He's a great supplementary piece.


Beyond that, I don't think VAN could take a hit like that to their already middling/poor pipeline.


But back to Lu. A Kessel deal for futures might actually make it easier for TOR give up futures to get Luongo, if they still wanted him.
Kessel is a fine player, who will need to play on the top 2 lines. When Kesler and Booth come back, where does Kessel play? Who gets moved down the line-up? I still see Kessel as redundant in Vancouver.

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01-31-2013, 01:45 PM
  #687
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Kessel is a fine player, who will need to play on the top 2 lines. When Kesler and Booth come back, where does Kessel play? Who gets moved down the line-up? I still see Kessel as redundant in Vancouver.
On the 2nd line? I'm not sure what exactly the confusion here is and how he's redundant. Offensively he's an upgrade on everyone but the Sedins and Kesler.

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01-31-2013, 01:48 PM
  #688
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Sucks that Boychuk didn't fall to us. I think this kid is going to put it all together VERY soon.

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01-31-2013, 02:02 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Sucks that Boychuk didn't fall to us. I think this kid is going to put it all together VERY soon.
Well he went to the best place for him, opportunity wise IMO.

Kid's going to get ice with the best two players in the league. I seem to remember him being a pretty damn good finisher in close, can roof the puck from very tight in, in traffic.

Pittsburgh is my east team, so I like it for them, here he'd just be another tweener.

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01-31-2013, 02:17 PM
  #690
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On the 2nd line? I'm not sure what exactly the confusion here is and how he's redundant. Offensively he's an upgrade on everyone but the Sedins and Kesler.
Are you saying he's better than Burrows?

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01-31-2013, 02:28 PM
  #691
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Are you saying he's better than Burrows?
Offensively? Yes. Better overall? No.

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01-31-2013, 02:40 PM
  #692
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Offensively? Yes. Better overall? No.
So, that leaves Booth as the man out?

Burrows/Kesler/Kessel? Interesting.

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01-31-2013, 02:48 PM
  #693
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Switch gears here: Phoenix.


Now Shane Doan could be dealt (and they just say on 1040!) at the deadline if they're out by then. Maybe he waives to come here? Following this along, if PHX is destined for Quebec, as per relocation, maybe Luongo looks at that as a good situation?


What's more, perhaps Smith does not re-sign due to that uncertainty? Would then Luongo not make a lot of sense for them?

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01-31-2013, 02:48 PM
  #694
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So, that leaves Booth as the man out?

Burrows/Kesler/Kessel? Interesting.
A) The Canucks are not acquiring Kessel.

B) If they were, I imagine Booth would be heading back the other way for cap reasons (and for competitive reasons for the Leafs).

C) This trade is never happening.

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01-31-2013, 02:55 PM
  #695
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A) The Canucks are not acquiring Kessel.

B) If they were, I imagine Booth would be heading back the other way for cap reasons (and for competitive reasons for the Leafs).

C) This trade is never happening.
Agreed. I too feel Kessel is a redundant piece in Vancouver, but he is still a very good player.

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01-31-2013, 02:56 PM
  #696
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Agreed. I too feel Kessel is a redundant piece in Vancouver, but he is still a very good player.
Vancouver doesn't have any players like Kessel, dude is being very undersold in this weird hypothetical discussion where all parties seem to agree a trade isn't possible.

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01-31-2013, 02:57 PM
  #697
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Switch gears here: Phoenix.


Now Shane Doan could be dealt (and they just say on 1040!) at the deadline if they're out by then. Maybe he waives to come here? Following this along, if PHX is destined for Quebec, as per relocation, maybe Luongo looks at that as a good situation?


What's more, perhaps Smith does not re-sign due to that uncertainty? Would then Luongo not make a lot of sense for them?
When is the deadline this year?

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01-31-2013, 02:59 PM
  #698
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What's more, perhaps Smith does not re-sign due to that uncertainty? Would then Luongo not make a lot of sense for them?
"Hey, Lu, Phoenix just had Shane Doan and Mike Smith leave because the team's economics are in shambles and they might move god knows where, but you don't care about competitiveness or location, right? So moving back to Seattle or whatever would be totally cool for you and your family?"

Yeah, I don't think so

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01-31-2013, 03:01 PM
  #699
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The trade wouldn't fail because Kessel is "redundant," he would probably be the third most talented offensive player on the team and capable of producing offense in a completely different way than the two guys ahead of him.

The trade would fail because Toronto gave up the world for Kessel, and if they bungle another trade moving him out it would be tremendously embarrassing to the franchise.

If Kessel gets dealt (and it's not under duress, with contract negotiations going nowhere in a season where they are going to miss the playoffs anywhere) they will need to get the kind of return that takes some of the sting out of what he cost in the first place.

Kessel and some junk for Luongo, Booth and a prospect or pick doesn't really do that.

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01-31-2013, 03:04 PM
  #700
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Vancouver doesn't have any players like Kessel, dude is being very undersold in this weird hypothetical discussion where all parties seem to agree a trade isn't possible.
Funny with over 3000 posts you somehow seem to be new to Hfboards.....

But you are correct the canucks don't really have pure goal scorers. They always have to do a hell of a lot of work to get that goal....even the twins. It's part (not all) of the reason the team gets into these large offensive slumps and has trouble breaking out of them.

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