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01-31-2013, 12:03 PM
  #576
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
What do you always hear for a solid player in trade? A good player, a good prospect, and a good pick.

Okposo, Nino, and this year's first though I would rather it was next year's first.

That for the companion defenseman to play alongside Hamonic and our blue line becomes something dangerous for a long long time. It is a big slice to give up though, but the Rags gave up similar for Nash so...
Rags are willing to spend right up near the cap ceiling.

Can anyone confidently say, they expect Wang to spend up near the cap ceiling? Even after the move to Brooklyn?

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01-31-2013, 12:05 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
What's the agent's excuse for Nino's meh WHL season in 2010-11? Or his even more meh WJC that year? Holy sense of entitlement, Batman. And when representing a very young player trying to prove his maturity and readiness for the big time, it's a really smart strategy to operate in an immature and petulent manner.
I don't know who's attitude is worse..Nino feeling entitled to a roster spot? Or his agent, who seems to be encouraging Nino's immature outlook/demands.

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01-31-2013, 12:11 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by PROMputt View Post
I could not disagree more. A good GM never let's and agent or player dictate demands, sets are real bad precedent. Not that I am comparing Snow to either of these guy's but do you think Lamoriello or Torrey would take crap from a player or agent? Yah I do't think so, so neither should Snow. Nino is still a BIG part of the future here with the Islanders. Let's remember he is 20 and this could all go away in a year. I still expect to see him skating a few games with the team this year but if he does not and plays at the Bridge and in the playoffs at the Bridge I will be OK with that.
I hear you, but this is not about winning/losing or letting a player or agent dictate anything. All that IMO is secondary. What this is about is what to expect from Nino in the future. Externalizing issues, assigning blame, etc are character flaws that may not simply go away. Yes, they could just be issues from being an immature 20yo, but many other 20yos are/were in a very similiar situation to Nino and didn't whine about it. Did Bailey piss and moan, demand a trade when he was sent down? No, he put up 1.5 ppg. Theres something to be said for that type of character and thats the type to bring into your team, not the diva-ish, "I deserve x,y,z".

Again, its not about letting the player or agent dictate anything. Its assessing what may come from Nino in the future and the realization that you'd better serve the team by getting the best possible return for him today.

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01-31-2013, 12:29 PM
  #579
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Snow won't move Nino hastily (if at all) and Nino won't see an NHL sheet of ice this season... book it.

Isles are doing the smart thing here whether Nino, his agent, his grandma, or anyone else like it or not.

The kid had a year of waste last year.

This year, let the kid flourish. Let him get pissed. Let him develop an edge. And let him never give the Isles a thought as to sending him back down to the AHL.

As stated many a time already in this thread.... Nino's got no leverage so he should shut his mouth and go out and play.

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01-31-2013, 12:30 PM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublechili View Post
What's the agent's excuse for Nino's meh WHL season in 2010-11? Or his even more meh WJC that year? Holy sense of entitlement, Batman. And when representing a very young player trying to prove his maturity and readiness for the big time, it's a really smart strategy to operate in an immature and petulent manner.
What was wrong with that season? 70 points (41 goals) in 55 games? Hate on him because of his behaviour if you want, but don't make up stuff just that you have a reason to talk him down even more. If I remember correctly, most of the posters here were satisfied with Ninos accomplishments in that season.

I don't think it's good style the way Nino and his agent are acting at the moment, but let's face it: If Snow goes the "YOU don't have to tell me anything" route the situation will get even worse. Of course they can sit him in Bridgeport, of course they just can't call him up, of course they can ignore it. But with every action the chances of Nino resigning or easy RFA negotiations are shrinking. If they still think highly of Nino and really only want his best and a common future then they need to please him a bit and call him up sometime.

It's a win-win situation: If Nino gets the chance, earns his spot and stays with the Islanders, all will be good and the Islanders added a capable player. But if he fails to earn his spot then that's the affirmation that Snow was right, Nino will go to Bridgeport again and his camp will have to shut up.

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01-31-2013, 12:40 PM
  #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
I hear you, but this is not about winning/losing or letting a player or agent dictate anything. All that IMO is secondary. What this is about is what to expect from Nino in the future. Externalizing issues, assigning blame, etc are character flaws that may not simply go away. Yes, they could just be issues from being an immature 20yo, but many other 20yos are/were in a very similiar situation to Nino and didn't whine about it. Did Bailey piss and moan, demand a trade when he was sent down? No, he put up 1.5 ppg. Theres something to be said for that type of character and thats the type to bring into your team, not the diva-ish, "I deserve x,y,z".

Again, its not about letting the player or agent dictate anything. Its assessing what may come from Nino in the future and the realization that you'd better serve the team by getting the best possible return for him today.
Why does Nino have to be moved now? Is his value as high as it will get, at 20 yrs old, based on 36 strong AHL games?

22/23 yr old Subban just signed a 2 yr extension, after a contract hassle with the Habs. The past few seasons he's had physical scuffles with teammates, had his maturity questioned by teammates and the press. When he signed his new 2 yr deal, the press asked his teammates for reactions and noted that there's a coolness in their reactions. I don't see the Habs, rushing to trade their very talented youngster because of immaturity issues.

Sometimes you have to deal with immature or flakey players.

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01-31-2013, 01:02 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrisUML View Post
I hear you, but this is not about winning/losing or letting a player or agent dictate anything. All that IMO is secondary. What this is about is what to expect from Nino in the future. Externalizing issues, assigning blame, etc are character flaws that may not simply go away. Yes, they could just be issues from being an immature 20yo, but many other 20yos are/were in a very similiar situation to Nino and didn't whine about it. Did Bailey piss and moan, demand a trade when he was sent down? No, he put up 1.5 ppg. Theres something to be said for that type of character and thats the type to bring into your team, not the diva-ish, "I deserve x,y,z".

Again, its not about letting the player or agent dictate anything. Its assessing what may come from Nino in the future and the realization that you'd better serve the team by getting the best possible return for him today.
I think it all depends on the quality of player though. Let's just say that John Tavares was a high maintenance diva type. You deal with it because he's one of the 20 best players in the world. If Andrew MacDonald is a diva, you tell him to shape up or take a hike.

How good will Nino be? Who knows. He certainly has the potential to turn himself into an NHL all star. if he does that, then you live with the nonsense.

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01-31-2013, 01:14 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Isle Junkie View Post
I think it all depends on the quality of player though. Let's just say that John Tavares was a high maintenance diva type. You deal with it because he's one of the 20 best players in the world. If Andrew MacDonald is a diva, you tell him to shape up or take a hike.

How good will Nino be? Who knows. He certainly has the potential to turn himself into an NHL all star. if he does that, then you live with the nonsense.
I feel that the high maintenance diva stuff divides locker room and your better off moving players that exhibit such behavior, even if they're as good as JT. A single great player doesn't win anything, only great teams do and teams only become great when everyone works together, knows their role and executes it. The diva stuff only acts as a distraction and its hardly worth putting up with as it rarely pays dividends.

Maybe im being overly critical here, but I honesly have never seen a 20yo prove so little, yet have the brass set to demand a trade simply because he was a top 5 pick. Did Hickey demand a trade? There are countless examples of players handled much worse than he, waited much longer to get their shot, yet never complained or demaned a trade.

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01-31-2013, 01:49 PM
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I don't know who's attitude is worse..Nino feeling entitled to a roster spot? Or his agent, who seems to be encouraging Nino's immature outlook/demands.
To me it seems like a classic case of a 20 year old kid getting some bad advice from his agent. A lot of players, especially young ones, want to focus on hockey and let their agent handle the business aspects.

I don't see this as making Nino some major diva, or even having a misplaced sense of entitlement. His agent, on the other hand...

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01-31-2013, 03:34 PM
  #585
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As I was looking through media articles that have been written on Niederreiter since he is with the Islanders, I stumbled upon this one. It contains quotes from then coach Scott Gordon (september 2010).

He's saying: "If you look at our history, you will notice that we gave our draft picks a chance already as teenagers" and "Nino will be given the same chance. He has a god given talent and is a better skater than Josh [Bailey] and John [Tavares] at the same age."

Now, the funny thing is that on the right side, there is a link to another article that says "Waiting for the NHL - Niederreiter: "Frustrating that I don't get a chance"".

How ironic.

Besides, in that latter article (january 2013) Nino is making some more statements.

"It's frustrating that I didn't get a chance. I have been working out hard during the summer and tried to prepare myself."

"I'm concentrating on what I can control. And that's on the ice."

Concerning last season with the Islanders: "I haven't played a lot, but I learned a lot. I was really happy that I already got the chance of a full season in the NHL."

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01-31-2013, 03:41 PM
  #586
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Sounds like a kid that has absolutely no clue about what his role is or what it takes to EARN a spot on an NHL Roster, and keep it.

The more I hear from Nino, the more I want him gone, sooner rather than later. Let's see what he has tonight in Bridgeport, but since this story broke he has been quiet on the ice (Wish he were that quiet OFF the ice). If that continues, it's the kiss of death.

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01-31-2013, 03:44 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post

You are always in contact with other General Managers.What's their reaction to this trade request?
Always is exaggerated but I have received feedbacks from the highest positions who show understanding for our move. I was glad about that. And there are teams that would gladly take Nino in to their NHL roster immediately. I have noticed anyway that negative criticism is only coming from people without expert knowledge or who don't collect background information and thus are not in a position to evaluate the circumstances.

http://www.20min.ch/sport/eishockey/...llen--23529650
I am surprised at myself for missing this part where the agent again states he is soliciting input about the trade demand. Regarding a restricted free agent who has another contract to go before teams can talk to him without the Isle's permission, this is bordering on tampering if true. It could be BS, but if not then imagine if it had been revealed that Snow had been whispering in Subban's ear during or immediately before his holdout? Imagine the uproar it would have rightfully caused?

The league should get interested in this.

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01-31-2013, 03:47 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Sounds like a kid that has absolutely no clue about what his role is or what it takes to EARN a spot on an NHL Roster, and keep it.

The more I hear from Nino, the more I want him gone, sooner rather than later. Let's see what he has tonight in Bridgeport, but since this story broke he has been quiet on the ice (Wish he were that quiet OFF the ice). If that continues, it's the kiss of death.
Add this to my last post. So after the dust up he suddenly goes cold? Other GMs telling his manager they agree with what he is doing?

What isn't wrong with this picture?

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01-31-2013, 04:03 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
I am surprised at myself for missing this part where the agent again states he is soliciting input about the trade demand. Regarding a restricted free agent who has another contract to go before teams can talk to him without the Isle's permission, this is bordering on tampering if true. It could be BS, but if not then imagine if it had been revealed that Snow had been whispering in Subban's ear during or immediately before his holdout? Imagine the uproar it would have rightfully caused?

The league should get interested in this.
Nino is under contract, in the 2nd yr of a 3 yr deal.

So, you are right, we could be looking at tampering charges.

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01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by Supersonic View Post
What was wrong with that season? 70 points (41 goals) in 55 games? Hate on him because of his behaviour if you want, but don't make up stuff just that you have a reason to talk him down even more. If I remember correctly, most of the posters here were satisfied with Ninos accomplishments in that season.
nothing was wrong with his season in the whl, but it was not a dominating performance (especially when he pooped his pants as his team went deeper into the playoffs). he had not out grown the whl yet whined and complained about the possibility of going back to portland. what did snow and wang do? gave in to the little swiss miss, each for their own reasons. so what did niederreiter learn from that experience? if you complain, you get what you want. the isles have shown this player that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. we'll see if they decide to stand up to the swiss miss this time or if they give in again.

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01-31-2013, 05:54 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Nino is under contract, in the 2nd yr of a 3 yr deal.

So, you are right, we could be looking at tampering charges.
Not quite sure how you mean that Crew. If you are saying that it can't be tampering since he is under contract, it is no different than getting involved with any player under contract. Knowing he has another contract negotiation coming up next season, if any GM gave advice on demanding a trade they would be in trouble with the league. You don't have to be in current contract talks for that to be construed as tampering. Even if legally it would be hard to pursue, the NHL has no interest in seeing clubs start doing this to each other. Remember when Burke threw together that hasty presser to tell Tavares, indirectly, that he was who they wanted even when TO was no where near selecting first? Remember how that talk shut down fast? That was the league stepping in to tell Brian to stuff a sock in it. If any GM or GMs have done the same with Nino, even indirectly, the league has every reason to shut that down as well.

If the agent is soliciting advice from other GMs for this same kind of input then the league would have every reason to review that agent's ability to handle NHL players.

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01-31-2013, 09:36 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Supersonic View Post
What was wrong with that season? 70 points (41 goals) in 55 games? Hate on him because of his behaviour if you want, but don't make up stuff just that you have a reason to talk him down even more. If I remember correctly, most of the posters here were satisfied with Ninos accomplishments in that season.

I don't think it's good style the way Nino and his agent are acting at the moment, but let's face it: If Snow goes the "YOU don't have to tell me anything" route the situation will get even worse. Of course they can sit him in Bridgeport, of course they just can't call him up, of course they can ignore it. But with every action the chances of Nino resigning or easy RFA negotiations are shrinking. If they still think highly of Nino and really only want his best and a common future then they need to please him a bit and call him up sometime.

It's a win-win situation: If Nino gets the chance, earns his spot and stays with the Islanders, all will be good and the Islanders added a capable player. But if he fails to earn his spot then that's the affirmation that Snow was right, Nino will go to Bridgeport again and his camp will have to shut up.
I'm not hating on Nino. I fully expect him to play for the Isles at some point and all will be forgotten. But the fact is that 70 pts in 55 games in a post-draft year in the WHL is not burning it up. Combine that with an unspectacular WJC and it's not like Nino made a statement that he was ready for the top lines.

The point is, Nino is complaining about 4th line minutes last year. But it's not like his post-draft season was so spectacular that he forced the Isles to give him a top 6 role. A lot of posters on this board wanted him to go back to the WHL for another year, in fact. So instead he got his foot in the door of the NHL and did nothing to move up the ladder (1 point and -29). What is he, 20? Play well, earn it, and force the Isles to bring him up with his play.

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02-01-2013, 03:33 AM
  #593
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I didn't mean anything different than you just said. But it was the Islanders that put Nino in the lineup, and we dont know if Nino and his agent already pressured back then. All we know is it started in the last few weeks, everything else is speculating.

I don't know whats the reasoning behind putting your top 5 pick in the bottom six. That mistake was on the Islanders and not Nino IMO. He didn't show anything promising but then again, he wasn't put in a in environment for success either.

Ninos on ice numbers were never great but not worth criticizing either IMO.

But just to clarify this; I'm no Nino supporter per se, he hasn't shown anything to justify his top 5 selection. Nino and his surroundings think way too highly of him, he's not even the best Swiss forward at that age. But it's not like suddenly everything that Nino did in the last 2.5 years was bad. There have been some stupid decisions by the Islanders regarding Nino, and in the eyes of his agent, Nino didn't get the best possible treatment, which I can understand.

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02-01-2013, 04:05 AM
  #594
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It just looks like a communication issue.

For me, it seems a little bit, like Cappy and Snow never talked to Nino, what his role is now in the AHL.

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02-01-2013, 04:30 AM
  #595
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There have been some stupid decisions by the Islanders regarding Nino, and in the eyes of his agent
what stupid decisions were made by the islanders?
they couldnt send him back to portland......the C.H.L. has a rule limiting teams rosters to "4 non north american born players".
and due to age restictions, he couldnt play in the A.H.L.
so what would you have done with the kid last year?

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02-01-2013, 05:14 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by ichabod13 View Post
what stupid decisions were made by the islanders?
they couldnt send him back to portland......the C.H.L. has a rule limiting teams rosters to "4 non north american born players".
and due to age restictions, he couldnt play in the A.H.L.
so what would you have done with the kid last year?
I guess some fans of his (especially the Swiss ones) say that the Isles should have given him a spot on one of the top two lines.

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02-01-2013, 08:16 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Sounds like a kid that has absolutely no clue about what his role is or what it takes to EARN a spot on an NHL Roster, and keep it.

The more I hear from Nino, the more I want him gone, sooner rather than later. Let's see what he has tonight in Bridgeport, but since this story broke he has been quiet on the ice (Wish he were that quiet OFF the ice). If that continues, it's the kiss of death.
What more have you heard from Nino since this all came out? Did he say something that I missed?

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02-01-2013, 08:24 AM
  #598
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Originally Posted by ichabod13 View Post
what stupid decisions were made by the islanders?
they couldnt send him back to portland......the C.H.L. has a rule limiting teams rosters to "4 non north american born players".
and due to age restictions, he couldnt play in the A.H.L.
so what would you have done with the kid last year?
They could have asked Portland to trade him to a team that had a spot open for a non-north american player.

It's not uncommon for teams to request junior squads to to trade certain prospects.

The team still has the choice to say no, but if Portland couldn't use him in the line up, I'm sure they could have gotten something useful for him in trade.

Not defending Nino, just saying that the Islanders did have the ability to send him back to Juniors under that scenario.

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02-01-2013, 08:39 AM
  #599
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Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick View Post
Not quite sure how you mean that Crew. If you are saying that it can't be tampering since he is under contract, it is no different than getting involved with any player under contract. Knowing he has another contract negotiation coming up next season, if any GM gave advice on demanding a trade they would be in trouble with the league. You don't have to be in current contract talks for that to be construed as tampering. Even if legally it would be hard to pursue, the NHL has no interest in seeing clubs start doing this to each other. Remember when Burke threw together that hasty presser to tell Tavares, indirectly, that he was who they wanted even when TO was no where near selecting first? Remember how that talk shut down fast? That was the league stepping in to tell Brian to stuff a sock in it. If any GM or GMs have done the same with Nino, even indirectly, the league has every reason to shut that down as well.

If the agent is soliciting advice from other GMs for this same kind of input then the league would have every reason to review that agent's ability to handle NHL players.
I'm saying that because Nino was under contract to the isles, his agent should not have been discussing his availability with other teams personel.

And while I disliked Burke's public statements about landing Tavares, JT was at that time an undrafted prospect. I thought Burke was a blowhard, but not breaking rules by telling the press he was gonna try to trade up to land Tavares.

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02-01-2013, 08:51 AM
  #600
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What this team doesn't need is a "I" guy in the lineup. The team is coming around , don't bring in his type of distraction. If the kid hits the sewer again, it will be the same old. If a player wants out..get what you can get for him now while he still has value. One more episode of screaming and complaining added to a lack lustre 2nd round of performance can only hurt his stock and the teams forward momentum. Everybody's got a role here, some may not be used in the proper manner for their development , but hey I have not heard crying from these guys..like the crying this guy brings. No agent will ask for a trade without the player initiating it, lets not kid ourselves. If your think your bigger than the team fine, ask to get out.

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