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Is it me... or are the Habs struggling on even strength?

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Old
01-31-2013, 01:47 PM
  #26
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
Remember the suckiness of Cole to start last year? He's just a slow starter. Once he gets going, DD should too.

Eller's awareness, reaction time and assertiveness are all hindering him right now. He seriously needs a beast mode.

That's a #1 line right now that is contributing nothing. And we're 4-2. That's a positive if you ask me.
I honestly think Eller might be getting close to being declared a lost cause. He's entering what should be his prime and he hasn't really shown he can become a 50 point forward who can play in the top 6.

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01-31-2013, 02:01 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I honestly think Eller might be getting close to being declared a lost cause. He's entering what should be his prime and he hasn't really shown he can become a 50 point forward who can play in the top 6.
For the first time, I'm starting to think this way too. I have been a huge Eller defender and still see potential. But I expected so much more this year. I see a player who lacks some hockey sense for sure and may even lack the personality traits needed to excel.

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01-31-2013, 02:15 PM
  #28
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I saw the game last night and I thought that Cole was completely off.

Bad passes, not aggressive, poor decisions... he deviated from his usual game completely.

I hope he's not questioning his playing style and trying to do too much.

I was like who is this player?? It's not the Cole we were used to seeing last year.

I hope he get's going soon because I fear that if his slump continues it will rekindle his ideas on possibly retiring.

Man I can't wait until we have a full team.

Love to see what the Habs can do with both Max Pac and Subbs in the lineup.

I mean they are alot more fun to watch than last year but imagine with both of them playing? Should be fun!

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01-31-2013, 02:17 PM
  #29
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The Habs have been bad 5-5 for years, why is this such a surprise??

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01-31-2013, 02:29 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
I

I hope he get's going soon because I fear that if his slump continues it will rekindle his ideas on possibly retiring.

Man I can't wait until we have a full team.
If he continues to play that way it may actually be better for the Habs if does he retires. That he's a slow starter , that his passes and timing are off ect that i can understand but i saw him give up on at least 3 plays last night and that's unacceptable. He basically just gave the puck to the Sens. That was terrible to watch and pissed me off

I sure hope that he pick it up because he's a liability out there right now. He look more like the Oilers version of Cole than the Cole we saw last year.

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01-31-2013, 03:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I honestly think Eller might be getting close to being declared a lost cause. He's entering what should be his prime and he hasn't really shown he can become a 50 point forward who can play in the top 6.
I'd be inclined to feel the same if this kid was actually put in a position to succeed.
Eller is most effective on the PK, and he isn't even used there. Instead we give time to guys like White, Prust and Armstrong. Not that those guys are necessarily bad, but they aren't better than Eller.
Obviously, but not sure why, he gets no PP time. To put all the odds on his side, we also make him play wing where he always looked clueless.

I'll never completely rule out a player when we never really put him in ideal situations. We seemed to be going on the right track with him last year. He was getting his time on the PK and doing well, he got an offensive winger to play with on the 3rd line and dominated opponents. Little by little, he was also getting more shutdown responsibilities and succeeding. But then Cunneyworth came in and decided to split up a very well working duo.

Yesterday was a great example of how poorly we're using him. Being used with two players that have started very slow as a winger, he looks as lost as them, no more no less. However, he gets moved back to the 4th line to center White and Armstrong, all of a sudden he looks much better.
He gets to play one solid shift on the PP, and he creates a scoring chance.

I'm not saying he necessarily deserves to play on the PP more so than others, but I think this ''earn your right'' has its limits too. You have assets and it is in your best interest to make all of them work. If Eller is struggling but would benefit from getting better offensive opportunities and playing at his natural position, then put him in those situations.
Move DD to the wing, he at least did well when placed there with Gomez-Gionta a couple years back. It was on a very small sample, but might as well try, it's not like he's doing particularly well at center. A move to the wing with less responsibilities might be better for him at this point.

If the goal is to really turn Eller into a winger, then we're gonna have to be more patient than just a 1-2 games. If not, then leave him at center where he's obviously most comfortable, give him back his bread and butter (the PK), and put him on the 2nd PP wave. If that doesn't work, I'll agree with you 100%. But before that happens, I can't really give up on him as I don't think he's being used properly.

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Old
01-31-2013, 03:46 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Wallach View Post
For the first time, I'm starting to think this way too. I have been a huge Eller defender and still see potential. But I expected so much more this year. I see a player who lacks some hockey sense for sure and may even lack the personality traits needed to excel.
I would really be open to trading him while we can still sell him as having potential. He may become a 50 point player somewhere else, but the fact is it won't be happening here and if we wait to see how he pans out, we could have 26 year old who can only put up 25-30 points and plays a decent 2 way game. In other words basically nothing of value.

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01-31-2013, 03:56 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I would really be open to trading him while we can still sell him as having potential. He may become a 50 point player somewhere else, but the fact is it won't be happening here and if we wait to see how he pans out, we could have 26 year old who can only put up 25-30 points and plays a decent 2 way game. In other words basically nothing of value.
If he flatlines to a player that gets 25-30 points with no PP time capable of playing shutdown minutes and PK duties like he showed he could last season... that's a pretty decent 3rd center.

Habs have been handly outplaying most teams at ES, largely due to Pleks line and Markov's pairing being very strong in tough minutes. However the only team I'd call good at ES was Ottawa and they beat the Habs handily there, albeit on a back-to-back.

Subban should be a big help though, this could easily end up being an above average 5 on 5 club between two top defensemen, a strong two-way top line based on Plekanec and Price in net.

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01-31-2013, 04:02 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
If he flatlines to a player that gets 25-30 points with no PP time capable of playing shutdown minutes and PK duties like he showed he could last season... that's a pretty decent 3rd center.
Eller will never be a top 3 center though. We already have 3 centers ahead of him on the depth chart and I don't see that changing. He's looking like the next coming of Jan Bulis.

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01-31-2013, 04:14 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
The Habs have been bad 5-5 for years, why is this such a surprise??
Different team [Prust/Armstrong/Gally / Mini-Gally / full season of Bourque] / different coach & system / different management...

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01-31-2013, 04:19 PM
  #36
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The main issue is the PK. The shooting lanes are wide open, especially on the point. The opposition is also having an easy time in front of the goalie when it comes to loose pucks. I think that was an aspect that Hal Gill really helped this club in.

I'm sure the coaching staff recognizes this, and will continue to work on it. Hopefully, they can find some sort of resolution to this. They don't need to be top 5 on the PK, but at least middle of the pack.


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Old
01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Eller will never be a top 3 center though. We already have 3 centers ahead of him on the depth chart and I don't see that changing. He's looking like the next coming of Jan Bulis.
Maybe he won't, but we've been seeing the difficulties of trying to play two-pure offense centers at the same time this year with Desharnais and Galchenyuk. Eller is probably a better option to do what's been asked out of Desharnais line this year than Desharnais is. Or simply a much better hockey player than White if you insist on keeping 51 and 27 down the middle.

Eller has a clear role he can provide value in as a defensive center and beastly penalty killer which he showed last season. Your wrong to say he will never be a top 3 center, he's already played fairly well as a top niner. Maybe it will have to be with another team but a good organization should be able to get value out of what he can bring to the table.

The only real similarity to Bulis is they both scored 4 once. Eller can clearly play a useful role even if he doesn't progress into someone dominant. Bulis never had Eller's defensive value.

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01-31-2013, 04:34 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Maybe he won't, but we've been seeing the difficulties of trying to play two-pure offense centers at the same time this year with Desharnais and Galchenyuk. Eller is probably a better option to do what's been asked out of Desharnais line this year than Desharnais is. Or simply a much better hockey player than White if you insist on keeping 51 and 27 down the middle.

Eller has a clear role he can provide value in as a defensive center and beastly penalty killer which he showed last season. Your wrong to say he will never be a top 3 center, he's already played fairly well as a top niner. Maybe it will have to be with another team but a good organization should be able to get value out of what he can bring to the table.

The only real similarity to Bulis is they both scored 4 once. Eller can clearly play a useful role even if he doesn't progress into someone dominant. Bulis never had Eller's defensive value.
I disagree, Bulis did have the same defensive value as Eller, but he was unwilling to accept that role. Eller at least seems more inclined to play into that role.

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01-31-2013, 04:44 PM
  #39
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I think the last time the habs were good on even strenght, Guy Lafleur was playing! Basically, the habs were never a very good even strenght team!

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:04 PM
  #40
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I think the last time the habs were good on even strenght, Guy Lafleur was playing! Basically, the habs were never a very good even strenght team!
Late 80's early 90's era teams were dominant on ES for by virtue of being the best defensive team of their era.

Recently, the only time they've been really good 5 on 5 and it wasn't an artifact of goaltending was 2010-11 when Pacioretty was in the lineup.

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01-31-2013, 06:51 PM
  #41
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The Bulis to Eller comparison will never stop being pointless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Eller will never be a top 3 center though. We already have 3 centers ahead of him on the depth chart and I don't see that changing. He's looking like the next coming of Jan Bulis.
He already is probably a league average defensive 3C, so this doesn't really make any sense. And having two offense-only lines isn't really working out.

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01-31-2013, 07:14 PM
  #42
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I'll agree with the PK behind our main weakness this year. Who was the coach responsible for the PK last year? Also, I'm not too fond of the positioning and hopefully they correct this. I know Subban will help in that department but it's mostly how the forwards play that has been annoying me. That and I'm not too fond of the inverted triangle on the 3 vs 5. I think our forwards are quick and smart enough (Pleks, Moen, Eller) to be alone while I don't think our Dmen are not good enough to play alone back there (except Subban).

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01-31-2013, 07:23 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Capitaine Gionta View Post
The loss of Darche has greatly impacted the PK. Habs should sign him.
You meant Gill.

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01-31-2013, 07:26 PM
  #44
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You meant Gill.
No, I meant Darche. The PK stayed very good despite Gill leaving.

Oh and in case you didn't pick up the sarcasm, here's a . I wasn't serious. Darche is done and I don't miss him one bit.

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01-31-2013, 07:27 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I'd be inclined to feel the same if this kid was actually put in a position to succeed.
Eller is most effective on the PK, and he isn't even used there. Instead we give time to guys like White, Prust and Armstrong. Not that those guys are necessarily bad, but they aren't better than Eller.
Obviously, but not sure why, he gets no PP time. To put all the odds on his side, we also make him play wing where he always looked clueless.

I'll never completely rule out a player when we never really put him in ideal situations. We seemed to be going on the right track with him last year. He was getting his time on the PK and doing well, he got an offensive winger to play with on the 3rd line and dominated opponents. Little by little, he was also getting more shutdown responsibilities and succeeding. But then Cunneyworth came in and decided to split up a very well working duo.

Yesterday was a great example of how poorly we're using him. Being used with two players that have started very slow as a winger, he looks as lost as them, no more no less. However, he gets moved back to the 4th line to center White and Armstrong, all of a sudden he looks much better.
He gets to play one solid shift on the PP, and he creates a scoring chance.

I'm not saying he necessarily deserves to play on the PP more so than others, but I think this ''earn your right'' has its limits too. You have assets and it is in your best interest to make all of them work. If Eller is struggling but would benefit from getting better offensive opportunities and playing at his natural position, then put him in those situations.
Move DD to the wing, he at least did well when placed there with Gomez-Gionta a couple years back. It was on a very small sample, but might as well try, it's not like he's doing particularly well at center. A move to the wing with less responsibilities might be better for him at this point.

If the goal is to really turn Eller into a winger, then we're gonna have to be more patient than just a 1-2 games. If not, then leave him at center where he's obviously most comfortable, give him back his bread and butter (the PK), and put him on the 2nd PP wave. If that doesn't work, I'll agree with you 100%. But before that happens, I can't really give up on him as I don't think he's being used properly.
Agree with this. And, yes, the PK sucks because Eller isn't being used.

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Old
01-31-2013, 07:28 PM
  #46
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For those down on Eller:

Trading him away for a bag of pucks would be like Vancouver giving away Cody Hodgson for scraps - a monumental mistake. Mark my words.

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02-03-2013, 05:26 PM
  #47
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LOL @ this thread!


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02-03-2013, 07:57 PM
  #48
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LOL @ this thread!

[/thread]

That is so awesome!

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02-03-2013, 10:55 PM
  #49
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[/thread]

That is so awesome!
Except if you are Francois Gagnon who doesn't understand the game of hockey, a game is decided if a team has more goals than the other one.

Who cares if it's a PP goal, an ES goal or a goal in PK!!!

Stuff for medias.

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02-03-2013, 10:57 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by IceDaddy View Post
The Habs have been bad 5-5 for years, why is this such a surprise??
Back it up.

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