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2008 Re-Draft #1

View Poll Results: 2008 Re-Draft #1
Steven Stamkos 223 84.47%
Alex Pietrangelo 6 2.27%
Erik Karlsson 21 7.95%
Drew Doughty 3 1.14%
Jordan Eberle 2 0.76%
Tyler Myers 0 0%
Zach Bogosian 1 0.38%
John Carlson 1 0.38%
Travis Hamonic 1 0.38%
Michael Del Zotto 0 0%
Derek Stepan 2 0.76%
Adam Henrique 0 0%
Tyler Ennis 0 0%
Justin Schultz 1 0.38%
Jake Gardiner 3 1.14%
Voters: 264. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-31-2013, 12:52 AM
  #101
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Craig Button is an idiot. Bourque? Lidstrom? Pronger? To name a few.
Button's opinion > some randy's opinion

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01-31-2013, 12:54 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Button's opinion > some randy's opinion
Alright, I'm done being trolled by Sens fans for the evening.

Which reminds me, isn't last year the first time they awarded the Norris to a forward?

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01-31-2013, 12:56 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Alright, I'm done being trolled by Sens fans for the evening.

Which reminds me, isn't last year the first time they awarded the Norris to a forward?
10/10 for original content. Good job bro.

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01-31-2013, 12:59 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Alright, I'm done being trolled by Sens fans for the evening.

Which reminds me, isn't last year the first time they awarded the Norris to a forward?
Outrageous that Karlsson didn't get any Selke votes.

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01-31-2013, 01:21 AM
  #105
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Outrageous that Karlsson didn't get any Selke votes.
Selke goes to best DEFENSIVE forward, duh.

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01-31-2013, 01:29 AM
  #106
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For me it's still Stamkos pretty easily. But Karlsson is closing in.

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01-31-2013, 01:43 AM
  #107
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Stamkos without a doubt

I find it quite humorous that Jake Gardiner got 2 votes in this poll, wasn't he just sent back down to the Marlies?

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01-31-2013, 02:11 AM
  #108
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Only other reason someone wouldn't pick Stamkos is Karlsson, but even then I still say Stamkos by far.

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01-31-2013, 03:59 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Super Schenn Bros View Post
Stamkos without a doubt

I find it quite humorous that Jake Gardiner got 2 votes in this poll, wasn't he just sent back down to the Marlies?
You get to laugh at them for picking Gardiner first, and I get to laugh at you for thinking he was sent down for performance reasons.

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01-31-2013, 04:21 AM
  #110
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It's way closer than people are saying. Karlsson is the best defenseman in the world. Is Stamkos the best forward in the world?
Apples and oranges.

The level of forwards =/= level of Defense-men.

Is Karlsson better D than Stamkos is F? I say no.

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01-31-2013, 04:34 AM
  #111
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Just wait 5 years...Karlsson will be the overwhelming #1 vote as long as nothing catastrophic happens to him.

Would literally not trade Karlsson for any other player in the NHL right now.
I don't think that is stupid. If Karlsson reaches the potential he has then i think he is arguably the most valuable player right now. Taking in to account that he is what, 23 years and elite D-Men often have long careers. So in a GM's eyes, Karlsson being the best he can be, is very tempting choice.

I would not bet on him being Norris candidate for the next 10 years. But, if he can pull it off then he is probably the best player of the 2010-2020.

I would still pick Stamkos first and frankly, i don't believe it to change, ever.

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01-31-2013, 05:25 AM
  #112
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Stamkos easy.

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01-31-2013, 07:28 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
Apples and oranges.

The level of forwards =/= level of Defense-men.

Is Karlsson better D than Stamkos is F? I say no.
I would say there's a bigger gap between Karlsson and other defenceman than there is between Stamkos and other forwards. On top of that Stamkos has always had a very strong supporting cast. At times he isn't even the best forward on his team.

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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
... You are aware Stamkos got a goal and two assists in the game against Ottawa, right? That's not exactly "shutting him down". Sens fans are getting ridiculous with their over-defensiveness of their defenseman. ****, I've been nothing but complimentary to Karlsson, while acknowledging that he does have some shortcomings, but it seems that unless I am willing to supplant Orr as best defensman of all time in favor of Karlsson, I am spreading "misinformation".

Edit: And right now MAB and Brian Lee could shut down Ovechkin, so that's not exactly a huge mark in his favor. Karlsson is not the guy stapling people to the boards, but he's also not Lidstrom back there.
Again, why do you keep talking about Karlsson's game without watching him play? You're spreading misinformation because you don't watch him on a regular basis and you are spewing non-sense that isn't true. 'He doesn't get called on to shut down other teams' top lines' - yes he does. 'He's great offensively but not defensively' - not true.

Nobody is comparing him to Orr (well, except people that are paid to give analysis on the game I guess). Just pointing out that right now he has more impact on the game than any other non-goalie player. He's on another level to most players in the league. He leads the league in takeaways, but as was mentioned on the Sens board he probably leads the league in play break-ups which isn't measured by stats but is extremely important to the flow of a game (for the other team).

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01-31-2013, 07:45 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I would say there's a bigger gap between Karlsson and other defenceman than there is between Stamkos and other forwards. On top of that Stamkos has always had a very strong supporting cast. At times he isn't even the best forward on his team.

You are kind of missing my point. It does not matter how much better Karlsson is in terms of other defenders. It is the top-end level of defenders he is competing against. For example, Karlsson is better or at least on par with Weber. But Weber is nowhere near as good HOCKEY player as Malkin or Crosby is.

I am not bashing Karlsson, it is no shame to lose to Stamkos and considering that he "loses" in a marginal but clear margin is quite telling how good he is. Pretty darn good.

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01-31-2013, 11:53 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TAnnala View Post
You are kind of missing my point. It does not matter how much better Karlsson is in terms of other defenders. It is the top-end level of defenders he is competing against. For example, Karlsson is better or at least on par with Weber. But Weber is nowhere near as good HOCKEY player as Malkin or Crosby is.

I am not bashing Karlsson, it is no shame to lose to Stamkos and considering that he "loses" in a marginal but clear margin is quite telling how good he is. Pretty darn good.
Right...but Stamkos isn't as good a hockey player as Crosby or Malkin either. I would argue that Karlsson will soon be on that level if he isn't already. It's the way he impacts the game everywhere on the ice, in all phases of the game. He can turn it up when he needs to and slow the game down if he has to. His transition game is 2nd to none in the NHL and his skating just might be among the best in the NHL as well (not just speed, but acceleration and general mobility).

Stamkos is a great player don't get me wrong, and I would take him over almost any forward out there not named Crosby or Malkin...but Stamkos is much closer to his peers than Karlsson is and Karlsson's level of play is extremely high.

Sorry, just as an example of his pure impact on the game:

Quote:
Ottawa scored 135 goals when Erik Karlsson is on the ice. That's the most in the NHL, more than any player (even Malkin and Stamkos). Spezza was 8th
...and while yes he plays more minutes than most forwards (if not all) he also is a defenceman that plays very well in his own end, and keeps the other team from scoring via possession as well.


Last edited by Cujomi: 01-31-2013 at 12:18 PM.
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01-31-2013, 12:49 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by taylord22 View Post
Stamkos
Petro (debatable w/Karlson...but he's #1 on 5 on 5, PP, AND PK)
Karlsson
Doughty
Eberle
Agree, I'd take Petro over Karlsson.. I'd even think about taking Doughty over him. Karlsson is amazing but he's not the best defenseman in the league.

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01-31-2013, 01:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Right...but Stamkos isn't as good a hockey player as Crosby or Malkin either. I would argue that Karlsson will soon be on that level if he isn't already. It's the way he impacts the game everywhere on the ice, in all phases of the game. He can turn it up when he needs to and slow the game down if he has to. His transition game is 2nd to none in the NHL and his skating just might be among the best in the NHL as well (not just speed, but acceleration and general mobility).

Stamkos is a great player don't get me wrong, and I would take him over almost any forward out there not named Crosby or Malkin...but Stamkos is much closer to his peers than Karlsson is and Karlsson's level of play is extremely high.

Sorry, just as an example of his pure impact on the game:



...and while yes he plays more minutes than most forwards (if not all) he also is a defenceman that plays very well in his own end, and keeps the other team from scoring via possession as well.
that's false, Karlsson has also been on the ice for more goals against than any player, despite his amazing numbers he's sub par defensively, a career minus player

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01-31-2013, 02:20 PM
  #118
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that's false, Karlsson has also been on the ice for more goals against than any player, despite his amazing numbers he's sub par defensively, a career minus player
He's a career minus player because of one bad season in which his team was one of the worst in the league (and would have been the worst in the league if not for Anderson coming in at the end and standing on his head).

If you think he's sub-par defensively you just don't watch him play. It's cool to be a troll though, I guess.

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01-31-2013, 04:25 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
He's a career minus player because of one bad season in which his team was one of the worst in the league (and would have been the worst in the league if not for Anderson coming in at the end and standing on his head).

If you think he's sub-par defensively you just don't watch him play. It's cool to be a troll though, I guess.
It's not even disputable, did you just completely ignore the part where Karlsson has been on ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Pretty telling fact.

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01-31-2013, 05:43 PM
  #120
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It's not even disputable, did you just completely ignore the part where Karlsson has been on ice for more goals against than any other player in the league? Pretty telling fact.
Where are you getting these stats? Also, what is the time period that you are using? Karlsson of this year and the second half of last year =/= the same Karlsson that was one of the negative +/- leaders 2 years ago. It's a world of difference -- but again you statwatch and don't actually watch the game.

Jealousy is unbecoming.

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01-31-2013, 06:51 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Just wait 5 years...Karlsson will be the overwhelming #1 vote as long as nothing catastrophic happens to him.

Would literally not trade Karlsson for any other player in the NHL right now.
I wouldn't trade Karlsson either, for anyone.

But that doesn't mean he is number one.

Stamkos is the winner -- and he should be. He is a more valuable player in general.

But for the Sens, Karlsson is incredibly valuable, so I wouldn't ever want him traded. That doesn't mean he is number one.

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01-31-2013, 06:55 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post

I don't watch all Sens games, but I do watch a few and I'm fairly familiar with his game. Like I've said, I think he's actually pretty good defensively. When I say shutdown Dman, I mean a shutdown Dman. A guy that not only goes out against top lines, but neutralizes them. I don't think Karlsson is, or ever will be that guy. That's not saying he's not good defensively (but I'll always love the Karlsson is a forward jokes), but he's not the type of player that is going to make opposing forwards shake in their boots. That's why I would take Petro over Karlsson, because I think Petro has the ability to be elite on both sides of the ice (which is incidently more important for a Dman than it is for a forward, for obvious reasons). Karlsson is obviously elite in the Ozone, but I think he's merely good in the Dzone, and while that may change, I personally don't think it will.
The funny thing is, that is exactly what Karlsson does.

However, I wouldn't say he's a shut down D-man. But he completely neutralizes top lines, and has been for more than a year (even more so this year). In fact, he's been playing on the PK, PP and even strength time this year -- and quite a lot of all three as well.

He is not the type that you think neutralizes top lines, as he won't be throwing out big hits or whatever. But he steals the puck away quite easily, and dictates the flow of the game.

But you are right, he won't ever be a hard hitting D-man.

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