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Don Cherry & the Coach's Corner season 2013

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01-31-2013, 04:18 PM
  #601
beauchamp
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Uhm, they were excited because their team had just tied the game after they had what they thought was the game-tying goal waived off.


Do you even realize what you just wrote?

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01-31-2013, 04:26 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
Sure, do what you want to do. Celebrate the way YOU want to celebrate. I dont claim to have any right to be able to tell YOU how to do anything.

Its one of the rights we hold dear, the right to free speech.

You can like it or not, that is your choice, but you cant impose your beliefs and thoughts on others regardless of their nationality.

It just seems however that canadians feel they have the right to do this since its like hockey is their entire identity and they're scared with the fact that other countries are diluting that.
(...)
I'm on your side of the fence, but you're doing the same thing.

"Some Canadians", not "Canadians"...

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01-31-2013, 04:55 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Wow, you are bringing freedom of speech into this? Give me a break, nobody is saying he should be arrested for it. But, like someone said earlier in the thread, where was the "Freedom of Speech" police when Avery was penalized for what he said about Phaneuf? Oh right, freedom of speech doesn't apply when you say something people deem un-PC.
What Avery said was simply un-PC?

Wow...

What about disgusting and outside the norms of society?

God (and some other people) knows I'm liberal-minded, but really, un-PC?

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01-31-2013, 05:03 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
free speech is free speech. just because it is insulting, doesn't mean he can't say it. It would be libel/slander if the girl in question was never Avery's girlfriend. But if you don't like me using "PC", then fine. I will change it, "free speech only counts when you saying something nice."
No, free speech is not "free speech".

There are boundaries.

Look it up before making another comment of the kind.

A simple example: are you free to cry "Fire" in a crowded theater?

Or teaching that the Holocaust never happened? Someone was deported from Canada for doing that (Ernst Zundel).

Will you claim that Canada is too PC for its own good?

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01-31-2013, 05:18 PM
  #605
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I have no dog in this fight but I personally think Yakupov's celebration after the game-tying goal was over the top and cocky... It has nothing to do with Don Cherry (I don't even watch his show) or nationalities or anything. The kid celebrated like he had just scored the Stanley Cup winning goal when in fact he just tied up a regular season game... Idk, it just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not a "conformist" or whatever else you might call me, I just think that the kid's celebration had a tinge of arrogance to it.

Just my opinion.

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01-31-2013, 05:56 PM
  #606
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
I could say the same to you. Stop thinking that you are the only one in here who is or has been involved in hockey. You could make the exact same argument for people who embrace things that you despise so much, they are grassroots hockey and the ones who have been involved in it for years.

So get off your high horse and stop speaking for other people.
If you have an issue with what I say, use the ignore feature. What you say makes no sense to me anyway. Guys who are grassroots don't want a WWE-style NHL. If you were grassroots, you'd already know that. But you are welcome to your opinion, and I would invite you to share it if you like. I believe in hearing all sides of an argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Karp View Post
What I don't quite understand is why people feel the need to call people "dinosaurs" for believing in a certain code and/or liking "old school" hockey?

What's wrong with it? Cherry called him out for his celebration, said the Kings were disrespected and then gave story in an attempt to give credence to his point. He doesn't like over-the-top celebrations, neither do I.

People just like to make a mountain out of any molehill. Yakupov's Russian so anything negative automatically means that he's a xenophobe. Anyone want to point out that the goalie he was defending was American? Guess he must love those Americans.

Cherry likes what he likes. We all have a view on how we want this game to be played. People who speak up for him on here are in the minority and it's become "popular" to go against him. I truly don't get the hostility and divisiveness that he causes.
Great post.

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01-31-2013, 06:11 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
Sure, do what you want to do. Celebrate the way YOU want to celebrate. I dont claim to have any right to be able to tell YOU how to do anything.

Its one of the rights we hold dear, the right to free speech.

You can like it or not, that is your choice, but you cant impose your beliefs and thoughts on others regardless of their nationality.

It just seems however that canadians feel they have the right to do this since its like hockey is their entire identity and they're scared with the fact that other countries are diluting that.

Yes, canada still has the most players of any one country, but its now only about half of the league is canadians. I think people are scared thats taking away their identity.

People are devastated when canada doesnt win an international tournament, Cherry is crying about how players from other countries are being developed in the chl and its not allowing the canadians to dominate international hockey any longer and the absolute hate and distaste that spouts from the mouths of canadian commentators is just sickening.

My point is, its not only your game any more. The rest of the world is catching up and the last four years of the U20 worlds has shown just that. I think this scares many canadians because, God forbid, other countries continue to win and take charge, what will they have left, canadian football?

And yes, I'm being snide and I'm being a jerk, but its getting really old about how snotty canadians have been about other countries infiltrating "their" game.

Let people be. You can not like it, but going on national tv and bashing a 20 year old kid about the way he celebrates a goal is just low and petty. Last night he scored the winning goal and motioned for all his teammates to come over and celebrate with him and he was getting bashed for that too. What do you guys want? When he celebrates by himself he's bashed, when he motions to celebrate with teammates, he's bashed.

Its seems you're just pissed that anyone other than a canadian can succeed in this game, especially if they're having fun doing it.


no one comes close to canada. only reason we don't win the gold every time is because of team chemistry. our team has the most superstars no questions asked.

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01-31-2013, 08:05 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
As some have aluded to, this is a league based in North America. As they say, "When in Rome...."

Four years ago, I went to Prague. Went to see Slavia Praha play Kladno at the O2 arena. Slavia won, and after the game lined up on the blue line and then started to slide and do other stuff on the ice towards the end where most of the fans were sitting. Apparently, it is a custom in Europe to do this type of thing. How would people react if a player from the US or Canada were playing for Slavia and refused to participate? If they said something like, "this is not how we do things where I am from?" Pretty sure the reaction wouldn't be positive.
Has there ever been an example of a European player in the NHL doing something on the level of the North American in you scenario? There's a difference between refusing something and adding to something.

I'm saying this despite Yakupov being about as Nordic as North American in his behaviour. The more styles, the more flavour.

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01-31-2013, 09:03 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
It's like you aren't even paying attention to what people are posting.

Is it your contention that no North American players ever celebrate in the same manner as Yakupov?
Did you not see the part where Don Cherry criticized NORTH AMERICAN CANADIAN BOY Theron Fleury for his famous celebration, and the reasoning he used, and the way Cherry tied it into his criticism of Yakupov?

Call it anti-european if you want. But Cherry has always told kids to celebrate goals "like they've done it before" and not to show up the other team.

I understand what Cherry's saying. And I certainly don't want everyone going ******* like Yakupov. But I like seeing emotional expression. Hockey's an emotional game.

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01-31-2013, 09:12 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Did you not see the part where Don Cherry criticized NORTH AMERICAN CANADIAN BOY Theron Fleury for his famous celebration, and the reasoning he used, and the way Cherry tied it into his criticism of Yakupov?

Call it anti-european if you want. But Cherry has always told kids to celebrate goals "like they've done it before" and not to show up the other team.

I understand what Cherry's saying. And I certainly don't want everyone going ******* like Yakupov. But I like seeing emotional expression. Hockey's an emotional game.
The truth is, lots of these guys don't even watch Don Cherry.

There is a post on this thread where I kind of questioned a guy who was calling Don racist, anti-Euro, etc. Then the guy admitted he doesn't even watch Don Cherry or CBC.

In short, it is just something to troll Canadian posters about.

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Old
01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
  #611
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I know lots of Wings fans, the same ones who used to love Cherry, have grown to hate Cherry...
because the Wings went nearly totally Euro, and lots of Wings fans started to get really defensive about the Wings' soft, skilled, euro style.

So people with inferiority complexes can either go hide in a corner, or they can overcompensate by acting superior.

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01-31-2013, 11:40 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I'll just respond to this last statement.

You are correct that some of us are the minority on this board. But here is some very important info for you: this board is nowhere near a representation of what is actually the mindset of hockey people across Canada. Not even close.

For example, the most popular player on this board is Pavel Datsyuk. If you go to 1000 rinks across the prairies, I would challenge you to find one person who would pick Pavel Datsyuk as their favourite NHL hockey player. I am not saying ask 1000 board members from the prairies...I am talking about people who actually spend significant time in hockey arenas, and not in their homes typing messages to other guys in their homes typing messages.

I have been both, the guy in the rink and the guy on the keyboard. I am guessing a huge number of members have been only one.

Not too many weeks ago, there was a thread that asked something to the effect of "What was a common misconception you used to have about hockey?"....something like that.

Guys were responding stuff like "I thought off-side meant you had to go off to the side of the ice" or "Icing was called by the goalies", etc.

People in the real world, in rinks across Canada, would do nothing but at that entire thread and 90% of the stuff written by casual hockey fans/message board hounds on this board.

Stop thinking you are so above guys like me and others who hold traditional values of the game sacred. We are grassroots hockey, and we are the ones who have actually been out in it for years. I understand that there are a lot of fans on here who are also NHL fans, but have no idea about grassroots hockey. I get that. I am like that for basketball. I have been a fan since the Raptors came into the league, but I have seen only a handful of amateur games in my life. I would never go to a basketball message board and start spouting off about how the game is changing and how the traditions suck and all of the old dinosaurs need to get out of it. I do not feel like it is MY game. It isn't my game (even though a Canadian invented it).

When it comes to hockey, I am about 50/50 amateur/NHL. It is not in the NHL where I go to find my grassroots hockey. That is the show - the glitz. But it is not where the sport's traditions are upkept. Not by a long shot.

So the majority of Canadians on HF are 'internet types' who don't represent the real Canada?

You're entitled to your opinion; however, for an honest discussion, perhaps you should start citing evidence. The trite "I'm right because I know more about hockey than you" is tiresome.

There's very little evidence to suggest that Don Cherry's traditionalist worldview represents the opinions of most Canadians.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:57 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
My problem is he very unfairly and without any proof claimed a 19yo kid was mocking the other teams goalie and called him an idiot. It's more about such general attitudes than about him specifically, if he was the only one saying these things then I wouldn't bother.
I won't deny that I do support Cherry on a lot of things, not all mind you, but I feel like I need to preface my post beforehand (in case you didn't know where I stood, which I think you might've guessed already ).

I never took his comments as saying he was mocking him. I personally believe that he was saying that he was just showing him up with his celebration. Imagine, in close game, you gave up the tying goal with under 5 seconds left and then the player, a rookie might I add who hasn't earned his stripes (see: PK Subban in his actual rookie year), races down the ice and does a huge celebration. Would you not feel even more upset (I know he might not of witnessed the whole celebration but we don't really [unless there's video focusing on Quick] what he saw)?

I cannot dispute that he called him an idiot, obviously, but don't you think that to him, and others, that it may come across as an idiotic thing to do in a (early) regular season match? I don't really think it was that far fetched and I think he was trying to say that it wasn't about him being Russian, with his Fleury comments. To me, he was trying to say, "look I know people think I just pick on Russians but here's a Canadian boy who did the same thing and it became poster material".


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02-01-2013, 07:09 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
No, free speech is not "free speech".

There are boundaries.

Look it up before making another comment of the kind.

A simple example: are you free to cry "Fire" in a crowded theater?

Or teaching that the Holocaust never happened? Someone was deported from Canada for doing that (Ernst Zundel).

Will you claim that Canada is too PC for its own good?
so, saying "sloppy seconds" is the same as creating a life-threatening situation by yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater? Or, comparing into an anti-semitic remark? Gotchya.

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02-01-2013, 07:11 AM
  #615
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
What Avery said was simply un-PC?

Wow...

What about disgusting and outside the norms of society?

God (and some other people) knows I'm liberal-minded, but really, un-PC?
So, because it is "disgusting", he doesn't have the right to say it? Obviously, it is a widely used term as people knew exactly what he meant. For the record, I thought Avery was a moron for saying it. My point is the post I was commenting on wanted to bring freedom of speech into his argument for supporting Yakupov.

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02-01-2013, 07:16 AM
  #616
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no one comes close to canada. only reason we don't win the gold every time is because of team chemistry. our team has the most superstars no questions asked.


Another fine example of the "My father is bigger than your father" syndrome.

Or look at it another way.

You're admitting that we've got a bunch of prima donnas (not to be confused with pre-Madonnas).

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02-01-2013, 07:22 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
so, saying "sloppy seconds" is the same as creating a life-threatening situation by yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater? Or, comparing into an anti-semitic remark? Gotchya.
Swing and a miss. And that ball was over your head.

Where did I ever compare Avery's obscenities with my examples?

I simply pointed out the fallacy of "free speech" arguments...

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02-01-2013, 07:40 AM
  #618
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Swing and a miss. And that ball was over your head.

Where did I ever compare Avery's obscenities with my examples?

I simply pointed out the fallacy of "free speech" arguments...
Nope, smashed it out of the park. You said it is not free speech and used two ridiculous examples that are not even close to what Avery said in order to back up your point. But nice try.

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02-01-2013, 07:50 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
No, free speech is not "free speech".

There are boundaries.

Look it up before making another comment of the kind.

A simple example: are you free to cry "Fire" in a crowded theater?

Or teaching that the Holocaust never happened? Someone was deported from Canada for doing that (Ernst Zundel).

Will you claim that Canada is too PC for its own good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Nope, smashed it out of the park. You said it is not free speech and used two ridiculous examples that are not even close to what Avery said in order to back up your point. But nice try.
Again, where exactly did I compare Avery's obscenities to my examples?

You initially stated that "Free speech is free speech" and I pointed out the fallacy of that argument and that there are boundaries to Free Speech.

But you're either hard-headed or of bad faith.

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02-01-2013, 09:52 AM
  #620
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Yes, and if Avery yelled,"fire" in a crowded theater, I would agree with what you are saying. Again, YOU are totally missing the point. You are bringing up the "fallacy", when it doesn't relate to the argument at hand. The REAL fallacy of this concept of free speech is how society (not the law) likes to arbitrarily dictate when free speech really exists.

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02-01-2013, 10:15 AM
  #621
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Yes, and if Avery yelled,"fire" in a crowded theater, I would agree with what you are saying. Again, YOU are totally missing the point. You are bringing up the "fallacy", when it doesn't relate to the argument at hand. The REAL fallacy of this concept of free speech is how society (not the law) likes to arbitrarily dictate when free speech really exists.
And once more, I'll remind you that you're the one who wrote "Free speech is free speech" and I simply pointed out that it isn't...

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02-01-2013, 10:20 AM
  #622
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
And once more, I'll remind you that you're the one who wrote "Free speech is free speech" and I simply pointed out that it isn't...
that's great. now, we all know that there are times when free speech doesn't apply. Thank you, captain obvious.

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02-01-2013, 10:27 AM
  #623
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that's great. now, we all know that there are times when free speech doesn't apply. Thank you, captain obvious.
All I see is .


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02-01-2013, 10:42 AM
  #624
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So will Cherry say that Morris was actually trying to get to Yak and teach him the hockey manners?
The same way he falsely argued and manipulated the video where he claimed Yakupov mocked Quick? Cherry using false arguments to serve his own interests? Absolutely unheard of!


Last edited by JS19: 02-01-2013 at 10:51 AM.
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02-01-2013, 11:09 AM
  #625
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The same way he falsely argued and manipulated the video where he claimed Yakupov mocked Quick? Cherry using false arguments to serve his own interests? Absolutely unheard of!
Lol this ^^^ actually listened to Phil espo on the xm NHL radio channel blow a gasket over don saying false things about him on his radio show this week. It was priceless, have never heard espo so mad and disgusted in a person and he said the exact same thing you did lmao

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