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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Mario Lemieux vs Bobby Orr?

View Poll Results: Who was the better player?
Mario Lemieux 52 27.51%
Bobby Orr 137 72.49%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:43 PM
  #126
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post

Very nice sir, you deserve an award for this post. Nice points.

I too wonder why more is not made of Mario's whining and quitting when he did. Plus his timing for coming back. I liked watching Mario play more than I did Wayne but only because he was more physical. However, I viewed him as ***** when he came out crying about how the game was played. He became a bigger ***** to me when as an owner he cried about the Islanders last year.
The Great One was pretty great with the media too. But on the ice he was probably a bigger moaner than Mario.

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01-31-2013, 05:46 PM
  #127
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
You confuse me here. You say what I said is not true but than turn around and agree with what I said that Mario is 4th. What is untrue in my remark if you happen to agree with what I said?

Some lists have Orr above Wayne? Some lists have Howe above Orr? Is that what you were referring to? If that what you were hinting at, than I would agree with you. I was mostly making my statement at the guy that thought Mario was the best and Wayne somehow made it down to 3 and telling us it was a consensuses.
notice that Dennis bolded the part that was simply not true. "in that order and everytime".

your statement at the guy who "thought Mario was the best and Wayne somehow made it down to 3 and telling us it was a consensuses" was well made, and you're much more correct than he is, but it was just incorrect to claim that was the accepted order by everyone.

If one was to summarize what most respectable observer's lists would look like, it would be this:

(Gretzky, Orr, Howe - in any order)
Lemieux

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:00 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
notice that Dennis bolded the part that was simply not true. "in that order and everytime".

your statement at the guy who "thought Mario was the best and Wayne somehow made it down to 3 and telling us it was a consensuses" was well made, and you're much more correct than he is, but it was just incorrect to claim that was the accepted order by everyone.

If one was to summarize what most respectable observer's lists would look like, it would be this:

(Gretzky, Orr, Howe - in any order)
Lemieux
Yes, I totally agree with you. I was making a statement at that Mario homer not a overall statement, I should have clarified better. And if you see I amended what I truly think which is Orr can be anywhere from 1 to 3 with some lists having Howe at 2. However, any respectable list has to have Gretz at 1 or a very good argument making the claim Orr should be 1.

I have seen arguments for Orr at 1. Usually the people that believe Orr was the best are people that watched both players on the ice. Which makes it interesting to debate about.

As far as Mario goes, I have personally never seen him above 4 and I have seen him as low as 6 with players like Rocket Richard, Harvey or Beliveau ahead of him.

Is what it is I guess.

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01-31-2013, 09:02 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
The Great One was pretty great with the media too. But on the ice he was probably a bigger moaner than Mario.
Can you prove this? Or are you just throwing it out there and hoping it sticks.

I personally have never heard Gretzky was a moaner, but hey, I will give you a shoot to prove me wrong. Link away

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01-31-2013, 09:10 PM
  #130
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Can you prove this? Or are you just throwing it out there and hoping it sticks.

I personally have never heard Gretzky was a moaner, but hey, I will give you a shoot to prove me wrong. Link away
Anyone that saw him play remembers he was a whiner on the ice. Unless my memory is totally shot and I can't remember which one was Gretzky. But I'm not prone to throwing stuff out there.

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01-31-2013, 09:41 PM
  #131
85highlander
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Anyone that saw him play remembers he was a whiner on the ice. Unless my memory is totally shot and I can't remember which one was Gretzky. But I'm not prone to throwing stuff out there.
Well, there were occasions (not too many grant you) when Gretzky wouldn't look to the refs but would take matters into his own strong hands. For example, when he took on one beast of a man in Neal Broten...all 5'9" and 170lbs worth...


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02-01-2013, 09:30 AM
  #132
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Sounds like you have some experience with evaluations in youth hockey.
Not sure what you mean about evaluations but scouts look at skill, not stats.

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02-01-2013, 09:45 AM
  #133
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Evaluations

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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Not sure what you mean about evaluations but scouts look at skill, not stats.
Evaluations as in skill evaluations, determining levels for competition - from single to triple letters, etc. This involves multiple levels of stats from timing and weighing drills to comparisons across league and district data.

Scouts look at stats and skills. From date of birth to physical data, to performance data - game data and drills data, to competition data. The stats are a handy tool when it comes to projecting performance, letting the team at the next level know what area(s) need work, etc.

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02-01-2013, 09:47 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Anyone that saw him play remembers he was a whiner on the ice. Unless my memory is totally shot and I can't remember which one was Gretzky. But I'm not prone to throwing stuff out there.
No, you're right DB. Gretz was constantly yapping and complaining to the zebra's, especially in his younger days with Edmonton. He mellowed out a bit later on but was still one of the most heard and loudest on the ice most games.

If you are someone that gets annoyed watching Crosby whine, Gretzky would have driven you insane, seriously.

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02-01-2013, 02:21 PM
  #135
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It if funny how many people can't handle it when a guy talks to the ref. Is it really a big deal?

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02-01-2013, 02:50 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
It if funny how many people can't handle it when a guy talks to the ref. Is it really a big deal?
*Talking* to the ref is one thing.

Whining like younger Crosby / Gretzky is annoying.

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Old
06-13-2013, 03:20 AM
  #137
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Without a doubt Bobby Orr. The Bruins could've used him last night.

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06-13-2013, 10:34 AM
  #138
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Orr is the most dominant all-around player in NHL history when you consider his impact at both sides of the ice. A team of 5 Orrs beat 5 Gretzkys, Howes or Lemieuxs any day of the week.

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06-13-2013, 12:50 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Orr is the most dominant all-around player in NHL history when you consider his impact at both sides of the ice. A team of 5 Orrs beat 5 Gretzkys, Howes or Lemieuxs any day of the week.
He was also pretty good at beating up on the weakest era in NHL history. Gretzky trumps Orr 8 days a week.

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06-13-2013, 01:14 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
He was also pretty good at beating up on the weakest era in NHL history. Gretzky trumps Orr 8 days a week.
Right, because Gretz didn't shred the stinky Smythe division teams like Vancouver, Winnipeg, LA, etc. The firewagon, early-80s was some of the most wide open hockey ever played with WHA expansion teams in the fold as well. And I'm sure Gretzky could defend like Orr, hit, fought, blocked shots, etc.

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06-13-2013, 02:13 PM
  #141
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Right, because Gretz didn't shred the stinky Smythe division teams like Vancouver, Winnipeg, LA, etc. The firewagon, early-80s was some of the most wide open hockey ever played with WHA expansion teams in the fold as well. And I'm sure Gretzky could defend like Orr, hit, fought, blocked shots, etc.
Parity in the 70s NHL was just terrible.

The WHA contracted when they merged into the NHL.

Plus more Europeans started making the trek.

I think it is safe to say that the talent level in the 80s was generally higher than in the 70s.

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06-13-2013, 02:40 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Orr's era was the weakest in hockey. I'll take Lemieux here. Feel free to disagree, I also have Howe ahead of orr. These sound defense arguments for orr are overly exaggerated. You can't be two places at once, Bobby Orr is no exception.
Orr wasn't two places at once. If he was in the offensive zone, he had possession of the puck. Period.

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06-13-2013, 05:49 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Parity in the 70s NHL was just terrible.

The WHA contracted when they merged into the NHL.

Plus more Europeans started making the trek.

I think it is safe to say that the talent level in the 80s was generally higher than in the 70s.
Right. If the 70s NHL had all the best WHA and European players in it, then it would have been more or less about as good as the 80s NHL. But it didn't.

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06-13-2013, 07:00 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Wizeman* View Post
1) Gretzky

2) Orr

3) Lemiuex

4) Howe

1. Gretzky

2. Howe

3. Orr

4. Lemieux

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06-13-2013, 07:33 PM
  #145
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It if funny how many people can't handle it when a guy talks to the ref. Is it really a big deal?
No kidding. "Talking to the ref = moaning". Must be Canadian thing.

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06-13-2013, 07:37 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Parity in the 70s NHL was just terrible.

The WHA contracted when they merged into the NHL.

Plus more Europeans started making the trek.

I think it is safe to say that the talent level in the 80s was generally higher than in the 70s.
Each decade has more talent/better parity than the previous one.

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06-13-2013, 09:18 PM
  #147
Fred Taylor
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Each decade has more talent/better parity than the previous one.
Arguable. The 1990's compared to now for example, it's pretty close.

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06-13-2013, 10:25 PM
  #148
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Each decade has more talent/better parity than the previous one.
Not so sure about that one.

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06-14-2013, 12:58 AM
  #149
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Arguable. The 1990's compared to now for example, it's pretty close.
More than arguable. I think the 90's, especially the first half blows today's field away.
I give the forwards from then a decent edge over today's and there's a HUGE gap between D-men from then and now IMO
Goalies are harder to judge but there was definitely more consistency back then. It seems like there's 3 different names every season up for the Vezina today.

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06-14-2013, 01:10 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
1. Gretzky

2. Howe

3. Orr

4. Lemieux
Howe
Gretzky/Orr
Lemieux

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