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Do you fire Laviolette? (Philadelphia Daily News article dated March 12, 2013)

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01-31-2013, 06:30 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
I don't get the desire to fire Lavi. Is it him? Or the forwards? Or the defense?

Is it him? - He has shown in his career that if he has the talent, his teams will put pucks in the net.

Forwards? - Slumping. PK needs fixing. No preseason. A lot of youth. Again, beginning of the season and Lavi may find a way to fix this. Fire worthy? Certainly not yet.

Defense? - Too many of these statements about defense are based on the fallacy that defense has a lot to do with netminder performance. Bryz is posting .924 (Bryz stat) and 2.11 GAA (which is the true stat for defense). It would be a little concerned about allowing 28 shots against per game. That could come down.

If you wipe out Leighton's nonsense, the Flyers have allowed just 13 goals in 6 games.

Sky is fallllllllllllling.
call me crazy maybe it isnt lav, maybe it's how this roster is built that's on homer, this team doesnt have a big shot defensemen, im hoping luke schenn can provide more offense i dont know if he has or not, i havent seen him shoot enough, he's always passing, timms too, he's got to shoot more instead of passing.

also this team doesnt have a lindros/leclair sniper/playmaker forwards, this team has gotten smaller, which is more advantage on the defense opposition and alot harder to get to the net and screen the goalie.

if the flyers get a new gm, hopefully they will build this team on size and a sniper, we need more players that shoot more and less play makers. too many playmakers on this team, this team needs snipers.

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01-31-2013, 06:48 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by toughfighter83 View Post
call me crazy maybe it isnt lav, maybe it's how this roster is built that's on homer, this team doesnt have a big shot defensemen, im hoping luke schenn can provide more offense i dont know if he has or not, i havent seen him shoot enough, he's always passing, timms too, he's got to shoot more instead of passing.
Why is our lack of a big shot defensman on Homer? Not his fault Pronger got hurt. Not his fault that Suter wants to play closer to home. Not his fault that the Preds matched Weber's offersheet. The only other defenseman that we could've got in the offseason via free agency was Garrison, and he too went to Vancouver to play close to home. The only way we're getting that big shot on the point anytime soon is through a trade and I don't see teams willing to trade around until later into the season. Once the trade deadline rolls around Homer will be making moves. If they aren't the right ones, then it's on him.

Quote:
also this team doesnt have a lindros/leclair sniper/playmaker forwards, this team has gotten smaller, which is more advantage on the defense opposition and alot harder to get to the net and screen the goalie.

if the flyers get a new gm, hopefully they will build this team on size and a sniper, we need more players that shoot more and less play makers. too many playmakers on this team, this team needs snipers.
The bolded statements contradict eachother.

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01-31-2013, 06:48 PM
  #253
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I think that if they don't get it together this year, the entire organization (GM, Asst GM, Coach, Asst Coaches) needs to be flushed out, and they need to bring in fresh blood from outside the organization.

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01-31-2013, 06:52 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
oh yea he got the job done, thats for sure..

for the other team...

soooo dont miss Carle.
And here's someone who simply disregards the evidence.

If you're a hater, just say you're a hater. And be aware that sometimes the evidence shows that the hating is irrational.

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01-31-2013, 06:59 PM
  #255
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Harts out, Mez out, Briere just returning, Read, Coots, Roo, and Jake all starting off slow etc....and folks are talking about firing the coach, firing Homer, shoulda done this, traded that, etc etc etc..........Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez ! Fair weather fans full of anxiety.............Maybe moving the Club to Canada is next ?

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01-31-2013, 07:25 PM
  #256
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The sample size is small, but TB currently scores more goals while Carle is off the ice than on.

There's very little reason to believe he'd boost our offense.

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01-31-2013, 07:54 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
Fair weather fans
I hope you can find a few seconds to think and realize how grossly inaccurate the usage of that term is.

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01-31-2013, 08:00 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The sample size is small, but TB currently scores more goals while Carle is off the ice than on.

There's very little reason to believe he'd boost our offense.
I don't think he would either. He makes a pretty decent first pass, but his offensive instincts just aren't good enough to be a big time contributor. And we all know about the muffins that he throws at the net.

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01-31-2013, 08:53 PM
  #259
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Whether we'd be better or not with Carle is a lot of speculation and opinion.

Whether there would be as much of a discussion about the coach's job, is not.

No Suter + No Weber + No Carle + No substitute ---> personnel & Lavi are a "mismatch"

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01-31-2013, 08:56 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
Whether we'd be better or not with Carle is a lot of speculation and opinion.

Whether there would be as much of a discussion about the coach's job, is not.

No Suter + No Weber + No Carle + No substitute ---> personnel & Lavi are a "mismatch"
Homer has done a horrid job the last 18 months or so. Honestly, I think he should go before Lavi, but when a GM goes, they all go.

The JvR trade is going to haunt the team for a decade.

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01-31-2013, 10:07 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Homer has done a horrid job the last 18 months or so. Honestly, I think he should go before Lavi, but when a GM goes, they all go.

The JvR trade is going to haunt the team for a decade.
So you'd be comfortable with:

Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gervais
Lilja-Foster

or when healthy

Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Mez
Foster-Gervais

They needed a defensman, Homer went out and got one. JVR and Schenn needed a change of scenery and right now the trade is working out for both teams. Schenn is young and will be with the team for a while. Not like we traded JVR for someone who is in their 30s and could retire in the near future.

Also, how has Homer done a "horrid job"? Like I said in another post, it's not his fault Suter and Parise wanted to play close to home and it's not his fault the Preds matched the offersheet for Weber. He did what he could to bring in players that would help the team but it didn't work out. That's sports.


Last edited by The Couturier Effect: 01-31-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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01-31-2013, 10:13 PM
  #262
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What I still don't understand is why didn't he wait to see what Nashville wanted for Weber before making that Schenn-JVR trade. We offered Meszaros/Read and picks for Weber--obviously not going to get it done. Wouldn't a deal with JVR look much better for Nashville? Solid young winger locked into multi-year deal at reasonable price. Connection with Wilson. I would've done something with Schenn-JVR (+) for Weber. Just interesting to think about.

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01-31-2013, 10:32 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Homer has done a horrid job the last 18 months or so. Honestly, I think he should go before Lavi, but when a GM goes, they all go.

The JvR trade is going to haunt the team for a decade.
Please explain how he has done a "horrible job."

I think JvR was the better player in the deal, but Schenn looks pretty good to me.

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01-31-2013, 10:37 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
And here's someone who simply disregards the evidence.

If you're a hater, just say you're a hater. And be aware that sometimes the evidence shows that the hating is irrational.
Not everything can be completely explained with numbers.

I don't think there is a stat for being a weak checker and a poor shot blocker.

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01-31-2013, 11:17 PM
  #265
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Not everything can be completely explained with numbers.

I don't think there is a stat for being a weak checker and a poor shot blocker.
I think blocked shots might be a good stat for the latter. Maybe there isn't one for the former but there are stats aimed at explaining defensive performance. I'm a believer in advanced stats for baseball. I don't know enough about advanced stats in hockey to know if they're as advanced or as helpful, but I'm sure there's potential there.

How is GFON/60 and GFOFF/60 different than using +/-? They both seem to depend on a players' teammates and competition, but I don't think they take it into account.

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01-31-2013, 11:19 PM
  #266
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I think blocked shots might be a good stat for the latter. Maybe there isn't one for the former but there are stats aimed at explaining defensive performance. I'm a believer in advanced stats for baseball. I don't know enough about advanced stats in hockey to know if they're as advanced or as helpful, but I'm sure there's potential there.

How is GFON/60 and GFOFF/60 different than using +/-? They both seem to depend on a players' teammates and competition, but I don't think they take it into account.
GFON/60 and GAON/60 are nice because they don't cancel each other out, like +/- does.

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01-31-2013, 11:39 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by zarley zelepukin View Post
I think blocked shots might be a good stat for the latter. Maybe there isn't one for the former but there are stats aimed at explaining defensive performance. I'm a believer in advanced stats for baseball. I don't know enough about advanced stats in hockey to know if they're as advanced or as helpful, but I'm sure there's potential there.

How is GFON/60 and GFOFF/60 different than using +/-? They both seem to depend on a players' teammates and competition, but I don't think they take it into account.
there are ways to block a shot that don't show up on a stat sheet.

Stats are fine and they help to illustrate trends, but if it was all stats then it would be easy to mathematically win the stanley cup.

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01-31-2013, 11:43 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
GFON/60 and GAON/60 are nice because they don't cancel each other out, like +/- does.
Personally, i find regular season +/- useless from say -10 to +10. Too much luck or situational variables in play. +40 however, is a pretty good indicator. Briere's -8 when he scored 16 points (or whatever it was) last playoffs was also a good (bad) indicator.

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02-01-2013, 12:16 AM
  #269
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Stats...well...I won't completely discourage them. But they still should be extremely discouraged. What they amount to is an online person's wish to win an argument, gets questioned, then provides "concrete" evidence to "prove" whatever he's talking about.

It's very weak and while I'd like it if people would grow up and stop it, that won't happen. In fact I'm sure it will only get worse. Much, much, much worse.

We're already seeing this lazy awfulness in thinking in 9/11 conspiracy debates.

"Oh yeah, well PROVE that they didn't die from thermite paint! Prove it! I posted my article, now where's yours!?"

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02-01-2013, 12:25 AM
  #270
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I didn't mean to make it so real, but it's sad when people put it upon themselves to go out and search for that "infallible" piece of "sourced proof".

As if statistics weren't bad enough, now people are hyperlinking "advanced" statistics unique sort result pages. Oh jeez.

Not good. Not good at all.

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02-01-2013, 12:29 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
Stats...well...I won't completely discourage them. But they still should be extremely discouraged. What they amount to is an online person's wish to win an argument, gets questioned, then provides "concrete" evidence to "prove" whatever he's talking about.

It's very weak and while I'd like it if people would grow up and stop it, that won't happen. In fact I'm sure it will only get worse. Much, much, much worse.

We're already seeing this lazy awfulness in thinking in 9/11 conspiracy debates.

"Oh yeah, well PROVE that they didn't die from thermite paint! Prove it! I posted my article, now where's yours!?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
I didn't mean to make it so real, but it's sad when people put it upon themselves to go out and search for that "infallible" piece of "sourced proof".

As if statistics weren't bad enough, now people are hyperlinking "advanced" statistics unique sort result pages. Oh jeez.

Not good. Not good at all.
Just because you don't understand them does not make them useless.

And comparing statistics to 9/11 conspiracy theories? Really?

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02-01-2013, 12:56 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
Stats...well...I won't completely discourage them. But they still should be extremely discouraged. What they amount to is an online person's wish to win an argument, gets questioned, then provides "concrete" evidence to "prove" whatever he's talking about.

It's very weak and while I'd like it if people would grow up and stop it, that won't happen. In fact I'm sure it will only get worse. Much, much, much worse.

We're already seeing this lazy awfulness in thinking in 9/11 conspiracy debates.

"Oh yeah, well PROVE that they didn't die from thermite paint! Prove it! I posted my article, now where's yours!?"
I don't get when people have serious aversions to using stats. Otherwise people just rely on their memories, which are usually nowhere near as good as they think they are, and confirmation bias often comes into play. Stats are just documentation of things that actually happened. Not what you think you remember happening.

Discounting stats is usually just a way of maintaining a belief despite having no evidence to support it and, often, plenty of evidence against it.

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02-01-2013, 01:03 AM
  #273
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It's this whole internet mentality. Look into it, and look into what you yourself are doing.

Someone alpha maled you with a post they wrote. Oh no. Gotta get em back. Need proof. Proooof. Undeniable prooooof. A source, yes, that's the ticket. That'll help me one-up my adversary. That'll show to all the world that I was right and he was wrong.

It's bad news. I'm telling you. It's no good.

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02-01-2013, 01:06 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
It's this whole internet mentality. Look into it, and look into what you yourself are doing.

Someone alpha maled you. Oh no. Gotta get em back. Need proof. Proooof. Undeniable prooooof. A source, yes, that's the ticket. That'll help me one-up my adversary. That'll show to all the world that I was right and he was wrong.

It's bad news. I'm telling you. It's no good.
I'm pretty sure the use of advanced stats in sports predate the internet.

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02-01-2013, 01:10 AM
  #275
zarley zelepukin
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Originally Posted by Qyburn View Post
It's this whole internet mentality. Look into it, and look into what you yourself are doing.

Someone alpha maled you with a post they wrote. Oh no. Gotta get em back. Need proof. Proooof. Undeniable prooooof. A source, yes, that's the ticket. That'll help me one-up my adversary. That'll show to all the world that I was right and he was wrong.

It's bad news. I'm telling you. It's no good.
Uh huh. On an internet message board, I'm pretty sure the reply function is pretty important. We are both on the internet right? I'm just checking.

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