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01-31-2013, 09:08 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
You keep the veterans so you don't become Edmonton and the Islanders: teams building slowly thru the draft in the bottom five of the league for 5 years. Or like Pittsburgh did. As you can see by the reaction after 7 games, Flyers fans would never except a 5 year rebuild. You sign Bryz to cover for lapses by the young players. No team has ever won the cup without veterans either.
I wanted this team to become Edmonton for 2012 and 2013. It appears we're going to be Edmonton this year anyway in spite of Homer's stupidity . The whole point of a rebuild is that you aren't good for a year or two and you come back stronger than ever. A team w/ Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, JVR, Hartnell, etc. was never going to languish on the bottom of the NHL for 5 years. But would it have been OK to miss the playoffs for 2 years while Schenn, Couturier, etc. mature? Absolutely. We could've gotten a couple chances @ landing the franchise defenseman we absolutely need. Instead, this team is going to be crippled now if/when Timonen retires or leaves. We have nobody that can even come close to filling the hole he's going to leave. Murray, Reinhart, Dumba, or Trouba might've done the trick there, but of course, we didn't get a chance at any of those guys.

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01-31-2013, 09:17 PM
  #77
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No one could have predicted that a 37 year old defenseman who'd largely been one of the most physical body-banging d-men in the game for the better part of 2 decades in the NHL might start to wear down, become more injury prone, and put up lesser stats as he neared 40? Ok, I guess I'll take your word for it. The way Pronger ended up being injured was unpredictable, but the fact that he didn't make it through 2012 completely healthy was no surprise to me. Nor is the fact that he'll be done in the NHL prior to age 40. If you couldn't see that he wasn't going to last another 3-4 seasons then IDK what to tell you man.

And do you really think Briere, Timonen, and Pronger all wanted to stay around and waste their final productive years in the NHL mentoring a group of young forwards who had no real chance at a cup? If we offered them to contending teams, they would've all had good value and they would've waived their NMCs. Rarely do NMCs actually end up being used to prevent the dealing of players. They might be used to stop a player being dealt to a bad destination, but the player is usually moved somewhere anyway.

Do I think Bryz is the worst thing possible? No. I'm a big fan of the way he has played this year and if we still had Richards and Carter, I would've been a big fan of him being signed. But at this point, I think Bryz is going to waste the most productive remaining years of his career while the youth on this team matures and by the time they are in their primes I think Bryz will be in decline.

I think this whole thing is a laughable calamity of terrible timing by Holmgren.

But would I ever stop rooting for my Philadelphia Flyers? Absolutely not. And the fact that you suggest that I should means you're the fairweather fan. A real fan of a team doesn't ever think about deserting their team or telling someone else to do so as you've just done. I'll stand by my team till the end. I'm a Flyers fan since birth and I'll be one till I die, but it's perfectly OK as a fan to disagree with the moves your egghead GM is making. And that's how I feel. It's also OK to be fed up w/ moronic fans such as yourself.

Being a fan of a team doesn't mean you have to be rah rah about every single thing that they do. I don't subscribe to the "Go team" soccer mom model of rooting on the sports teams I cheer for. But if you do, that's your right I guess.
Briere would likely not waive to go anywhere. He has obligations outside of the game to stay in the area. You think it's easy for these guys with families, who commited themselves to this team to just pick up and leave mid season moving themselves and their kids away? You must have a crystal ball I guess, to KNOW without a doubt there was no way Pronger could continue playing. To KNOW that Grabovski wouldhit him in the eye with a stick, maybe you should of sent him a letter warning him or something This team will get better sooner rather then later, and we will finally have a solid goaltender to go along with it. I'm not even going to address the bottom part of your post.

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01-31-2013, 09:21 PM
  #78
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I think flyers fans as a whole are used to having one of the best teams in the league all the time. In our recent history we have not had a team that was full of young guys who were part of our core team. When we had our "down" years recently we had a veteran team that just could not compete in the new NHL. We turned it around in one offseason and were instant competitors again. We took a bit longer of an approach by moving Carter and Richards for younger peices but I think it can work out. If we get a stud defensemen in this years draft in 2 or 3 years our defense could look like

Stud d-man-Coburn
Schenn-Grossmann
Gustaffsson-Gostisbehere

While our offense develops into the powerhouse it could be. We may be in a Chicago scenario at that point with a bunch of guys ELC's expiring at the same time. But Chicago won the cup with that kind of roster.
And homer tried to close the veteran gap with Suter, Parise, and Weber. It didn't work out...but it wasn't because he was idle.

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01-31-2013, 09:27 PM
  #79
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Briere would likely not waive to go anywhere. He has obligations outside of the game to stay in the area. You think it's easy for these guys with families, who commited themselves to this team to just pick up and leave mid season moving themselves and their kids away?
this is going to be 0% of his waive decision. his kids don't have to move.

if we appear to be falling apart im sure DB will be happy to go. he wants a cup.

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01-31-2013, 09:28 PM
  #80
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And homer tried to close the veteran gap with Suter, Parise, and Weber. It didn't work out...but it wasn't because he was idle.
Agreed I don't know what else he could of done other then overreacting and going after a guy that wasn't as good and overpaying for it. Then we would have much more to complain about.

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01-31-2013, 09:30 PM
  #81
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this is going to be 0% of his waive decision. his kids don't have to move.

if we appear to be falling apart im sure DB will be happy to go. he wants a cup.
I have a hard time believing that. He lives alone with his kids. I'm not a parent but it would not be easy to move away and leave the kids you have raised in custody of the woman you no longer have relations with for an extended period of time. Stanley Cup or not.

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01-31-2013, 09:41 PM
  #82
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I have a hard time believing that. He lives alone with his kids. I'm not a parent but it would not be easy to move away and leave the kids you have raised in custody of the woman you no longer have relations with for an extended period of time. Stanley Cup or not.
Who said they live with her. Who do they live with when he is on the road?

DB has money...I'm sure he gets quality nannies.

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02-01-2013, 05:01 AM
  #83
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I wanted this team to become Edmonton for 2012 and 2013. It appears we're going to be Edmonton this year anyway in spite of Homer's stupidity . The whole point of a rebuild is that you aren't good for a year or two and you come back stronger than ever. A team w/ Giroux, Couturier, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek, JVR, Hartnell, etc. was never going to languish on the bottom of the NHL for 5 years. But would it have been OK to miss the playoffs for 2 years while Schenn, Couturier, etc. mature? Absolutely. We could've gotten a couple chances @ landing the franchise defenseman we absolutely need. Instead, this team is going to be crippled now if/when Timonen retires or leaves. We have nobody that can even come close to filling the hole he's going to leave. Murray, Reinhart, Dumba, or Trouba might've done the trick there, but of course, we didn't get a chance at any of those guys.
So in one thread you are arguing that Homer screwed up because he didn't offer a big package of youth, Schenn Voracek 1st rd pick, to get Shea Weber because "we are a contending team desperately in need of a #1 defensemen" and in this thread you are saying Homer screwed up because he didn't ship out out all of the veterans to tank for two years. There's a bit a contradiction there. It seems like you just dont like Holmgren and are arguing to argue.

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02-01-2013, 06:47 AM
  #84
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this is going to be 0% of his waive decision. his kids don't have to move.

if we appear to be falling apart im sure DB will be happy to go. he wants a cup.
Obviously not a parent or don't understand the nature of his issues. Briere has a custody agreement with his ex-wife where he gets the kids very frequently. If he actively breaks the conditions of that deal by moving well outside the area, he jeopardizes the whole deal.

Given how important his family is to him, I seriously doubt that Danny agrees to waive for a team outside the mid-atlantic region knowing that he has 2 more years on his deal whereever he gets traded.

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02-01-2013, 08:05 AM
  #85
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The current roster has enormous potential, and I believe that priorities #1 and 2 for this freakishly shortened season are to find out what these young players can do and to build a system that maximizes the roster's strengths. If that is at the expense of a playoff spot, so be it.

There is very little to be gained by a knee-jerk trade of Voracek, Schenn, etc., unless it results in a solid improvement in the line-up over several years.

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02-01-2013, 08:47 AM
  #86
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The current roster has enormous potential, and I believe that priorities #1 and 2 for this freakishly shortened season are to find out what these young players can do and to build a system that maximizes the roster's strengths. If that is at the expense of a playoff spot, so be it.

There is very little to be gained by a knee-jerk trade of Voracek, Schenn, etc., unless it results in a solid improvement in the line-up over several years.
agree. i think if you can get ryan for a package around Voracek and a few prospects, then i'd do it, but with that being highly unlikely, i'd say just tough it out, use our 1st to try and get a defenseman that can develop into something special. perhaps make a run at Perry in the offseason and amnesty briere when we need to re-sign giroux, couturier etc.

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02-01-2013, 10:04 AM
  #87
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Obviously not a parent or don't understand the nature of his issues. Briere has a custody agreement with his ex-wife where he gets the kids very frequently. If he actively breaks the conditions of that deal by moving well outside the area, he jeopardizes the whole deal.

Given how important his family is to him, I seriously doubt that Danny agrees to waive for a team outside the mid-atlantic region knowing that he has 2 more years on his deal whereever he gets traded.
I am a parent, I'm not his lawyer. I'm sure his kids have some sort of nanny involved, as he must travel for work. DB is loaded...I'm sure he can get an excellent family court attorney and get something worked out.

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02-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #88
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I am a parent, I'm not his lawyer. I'm sure his kids have some sort of nanny involved, as he must travel for work. DB is loaded...I'm sure he can get an excellent family court attorney and get something worked out.
i have no doubt that he could, but the fact is, why would he want to enter into that whole process when he could simply exercise his NMC and just forgo any sort of situation like that? Im sure he'd much rather stay his current path until his contract is up in 2 years.

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02-01-2013, 11:46 AM
  #89
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I think the whole child custody thing with Briere is a little bit over blown. From media hype and also forum boards, I think he would wave his NTC if he liked to the idea of going to a certain city.

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02-01-2013, 11:54 AM
  #90
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Briere would likely not waive to go anywhere. He has obligations outside of the game to stay in the area. You think it's easy for these guys with families, who commited themselves to this team to just pick up and leave mid season moving themselves and their kids away? You must have a crystal ball I guess, to KNOW without a doubt there was no way Pronger could continue playing. To KNOW that Grabovski wouldhit him in the eye with a stick, maybe you should of sent him a letter warning him or something :sarcasm: This team will get better sooner rather then later, and we will finally have a solid goaltender to go along with it. I'm not even going to address the bottom part of your post.
and the odds of him getting hurt by martin hanzel, one of the only other 6'6" monsters in the league being what it was. if not for those two injuries he would've given us a good 3 or 4 more years. It's not even a question that he was not only the same level of player as lidstrom but could've dominated more than lidstrom did in his early 40's. that's what we were banking on and that's why it's so devastating that he went out like that.

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02-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #91
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I have a hard time believing that. He lives alone with his kids. I'm not a parent but it would not be easy to move away and leave the kids you have raised in custody of the woman you no longer have relations with for an extended period of time. Stanley Cup or not.
They had a successful arrangement for Berlin that worked out for all party's very well. It could be done again.

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02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #92
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They had a successful arrangement for Berlin that worked out for all party's very well. It could be done again.
Yeah custody agreements can be modified. I don't know the extent of Danny Briere's divorce and custody, but I wager that any existing custody agreement could be modified to allow for a trade, especially considering the fact that his career likely doesn't have much time left and his contract is expiring soon, leaving him free to sign wherever is possible to facilitate any custody arrangements. Of course, Briere himself would have first agree to the trade. I could see him wanting to stay by his kids and rejecting a trade though.

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02-01-2013, 03:30 PM
  #93
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Of course, Briere himself would have first agree to the trade. I could see him wanting to stay by his kids and rejecting a trade though.
I think that he's tradeable and would probably accept a trade that kept him on the East Coast (Carolina probably being the Southern range), but his value is almost certain to be impacted at least a little by the restriction to 12 or so teams.

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02-01-2013, 03:52 PM
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Tell you all what, if the Flyers are out of the playoffs and Briere would agree to waive his NMC to be dealt for a low to mid first-rounder or better, I'll marry him and raise his children in the Philadelphia area.

I don't yet know what I'll tell my wife. Cross that bridge when I get there.

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02-01-2013, 03:54 PM
  #95
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Tell you all what, if the Flyers are out of the playoffs and Briere would agree to waive his NMC to be dealt for a low to mid first-rounder or better, I'll marry him and raise his children in the Philadelphia area.

I don't yet know what I'll tell my wife. Cross that bridge when I get there.
Fake your death. Yeah, she'll be a little sad at first, but think about how excited she'll be when you return alive.

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02-02-2013, 12:08 AM
  #96
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Fake your death. Yeah, she'll be a little sad at first, but think about how excited she'll be when you return alive.
We'll have a lot of 'splaining to do to the life insurance people. Then she'll kill me anyway.

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02-02-2013, 12:18 AM
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We'll have a lot of 'splaining to do to the life insurance people. Then she'll kill me anyway.
Cross those bridges when you get there.

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02-02-2013, 12:42 AM
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Cross those bridges when you get there.
... and then get dredged out from under one of them a week later.

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02-02-2013, 12:48 AM
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and the odds of him getting hurt by martin hanzel, one of the only other 6'6" monsters in the league being what it was. if not for those two injuries he would've given us a good 3 or 4 more years. It's not even a question that he was not only the same level of player as lidstrom but could've dominated more than lidstrom did in his early 40's. that's what we were banking on and that's why it's so devastating that he went out like that.
#1: While Chris Pronger is an excellent defenseman, you cannot put him into the same category as Lidstrom. 7 Norris trophies speak for themselves.

#2: Certain types of players age differently. The vast majority of players who remain elite well into their late 30s / early 40s are right around 6'0 and no more than 200 lbs. Chris Pronger is 6'6, 220lbs+. At age 36, he was already starting to have back problems. To expect him to be a dominant #1 defenseman capable of elevating a team filled with youth and inexperience to "contender" status over his age 37, 38, 39, and 40 seasons is a little ridiculous.

It's like I said, I have tremendous respect for Pronger, Briere, and Timonen. All are great players that can have a profound impact on a team, but they were each brought in respectively to be part of a core of players who were already in their primes, to be the pieces that put us over the top. Holmgren gave up on that vision when he traded RIchards and Carter. When Holmgren decided to rebuild and go with a youth movement, they should've all been traded to go along with the new vision of youth that Holmgren had for the Flyers. We might've been bad in 2011-2012, but if we were, we would've gotten a top draft pick and a chance to grab a young #1 defenseman who we desperately needed/need.

Instead, Holmgren piecemealed together a team for 2011-2012 capable of making the playoffs but not capable of winning the whole thing. And as a result of that, we lost out on a chance to draft that franchise defenseman and now we're struggling because, among other massive problems with this team, the one guy Giroux had excellent chemistry with just happened to be the 40 year old Jaromir Jagr, who we brought in for one year and then threw out with the trash.

I'm not a total Homer hater btw, I loved the Carter trade and I think he got decent value for Richards, though I did question at the time whether it was really necessary. But I still didn't really knock Homer. I understood that he was trying to go in a different direction with the team. But what I cannot get behind is the fact that he didn't finish the job and fully commit to that youth movement. Had he tried to trade all of our older vets and had he given Bobrovsky a second season as the starter, I'd have no issue with what he did. But the moves he made after the Carter and Richards trades just don't make sense and I don't think they put us in a position to succeed long term.

If you guys disagree, I'll respect that, but I'm entitled to my opinion as a fan.

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02-02-2013, 10:59 AM
  #100
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I think that he's tradeable and would probably accept a trade that kept him on the East Coast (Carolina probably being the Southern range), but his value is almost certain to be impacted at least a little by the restriction to 12 or so teams.
Of course it will...aside from preferring to stay close, he's going to only go to contenders.

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