I would be extremely pleased with Zadorov, Nicushkin, Mantha, or Erne. Specifically Zadorov he would round out our D perfectly IMO. I doubt the Jets would draft Nicushkin but I think he would really fit our mold big, gritty, and scoring ability as would Erne. I don't know a tonne about Mantha but he is a goal scorer and we could use a bit more of that on our team. Though he does play a position of non need for us.
I would be extremely pleased with Zadorov, Nicushkin, Mantha, or Erne. Specifically Zadorov he would round out our D perfectly IMO. I doubt the Jets would draft Nicushkin but I think he would really fit our mold big, gritty, and scoring ability as would Erne. I don't know a tonne about Mantha but he is a goal scorer and we could use a bit more of that on our team. Though he does play a position of non need for us.
I don't like Mantha very much at all.
Has definite skills, is kind of the "all the tools, no toolbox" kind of guy. I'm of the opinion he never quite finds that toolbox.
I just don't think drive and desire are easy attributes to acquire later on and I just don't think he'll get them. He'll still be a good player, he just won't reach his potential. Unless he lines up next to a bonafide #1 center like Crosby, then I think his lack of drive may be slightly masked and his skills could shine.
Has definite skills, is kind of the "all the tools, no toolbox" kind of guy. I'm of the opinion he never quite finds that toolbox.
I just don't think drive and desire are easy attributes to acquire later on and I just don't think he'll get them. He'll still be a good player, he just won't reach his potential. Unless he lines up next to a bonafide #1 center like Crosby, then I think his lack of drive may be slightly masked and his skills could shine.
What current players would best describe Mantha's ceiling and floor? Also what are your feelings about Nicushkin?
If we do end up drafting in the 10-14 range, what would it realistically take to trade up to the 4-6 spots? Would our 1st and 2nd get it done? I tend to think it won't. Likely our 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I'd really like to see us do this and move up to that 4-6 range and nab a potential superstar like Barkov, Monahan, or Drouin. The bonafide 1st line center this team needs (future).
If it came down to trading our 1st plus 2 2nds, I'd still do it.
What current players would best describe Mantha's ceiling and floor? Also what are your feelings about Nicushkin?
Haven't seen enough Nichushkin to give a proper judgment. What I have seen I've liked, would have to get in more viewings to round it out though. I also have some questions about his game that I'd be looking for answers.
Mantha's interesting, I've heard some compare him to James Neal and I think that's a fair comparison for ceiling. I just think Neal is a bit more consistent in the drive area than Mantha and that's the main area of negativity that I don't like about Mantha.
Floor...I don't know. I guess everyone's floor is never making it to the big league.
If we do end up drafting in the 10-14 range, what would it realistically take to trade up to the 4-6 spots? Would our 1st and 2nd get it done? I tend to think it won't. Likely our 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I'd really like to see us do this and move up to that 4-6 range and nab a potential superstar like Barkov, Monahan, or Drouin. The bonafide 1st line center this team needs (future).
If it came down to trading our 1st plus 2 2nds, I'd still do it.
The problem is I don't think any team holding one of those higher picks trade down for just that.
Everyone is very cognizant of the difference in potential between the top 6 players and the rest. I'd think a trade up would require more than 1 or 2 2nds. I personally think it puts it out of range, I'd rather take the quantity of players in this draft. Rather than trading what it would take to move up.
What current players would best describe Mantha's ceiling and floor? Also what are your feelings about Nicushkin?
I remember hearing a comparison made between Mantha and James Neal. Now if it's the Neal you see in Pittsburgh, it's an obvious WIN, but when Neal played in Dallas, his inconsistency was infuriating.
I like Mantha, but the consistent lack of drive can be worrisome. Again, that can be overlooked somewhat if he's on a talent laden team where he is not the marquee player.
As for Nichushkin, I was not overly impressed with him at the WJC although he did score a huge OT goal. For me, I wouldn't risk it. The Russian factor is too much for me when there are near equal talents available that don't pose the same risk. Even Russians that are playing in the CHL, I'd be wary of, although I think I'd take a chance on Zykov or Zadorov before Nichushkin.
If we do end up drafting in the 10-14 range, what would it realistically take to trade up to the 4-6 spots? Would our 1st and 2nd get it done? I tend to think it won't. Likely our 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. I'd really like to see us do this and move up to that 4-6 range and nab a potential superstar like Barkov, Monahan, or Drouin. The bonafide 1st line center this team needs (future).
If it came down to trading our 1st plus 2 2nds, I'd still do it.
That would not get the trade done imo. However as Chevy has said they want to be in a position to be aggressive and having the draft choices they do have will allow them to be just that if they feel it is warranted.
This organization will not have any inherent preclusions to moving up or down , they will assess each opoortunity individually and move accordingly , imo.
I would not rule out Chevy pulling the trigger on moving two 2nd rounders to get back into the 26 - 30 range. All it takes is for the team selecting there to have their player gone and believe the next guy on their list will still be there in the 2nd round.
Haven't seen enough Nichushkin to give a proper judgment. What I have seen I've liked, would have to get in more viewings to round it out though. I also have some questions about his game that I'd be looking for answers.
Mantha's interesting, I've heard some compare him to James Neal and I think that's a fair comparison for ceiling. I just think Neal is a bit more consistent in the drive area than Mantha and that's the main area of negativity that I don't like about Mantha.
Floor...I don't know. I guess everyone's floor is never making it to the big league.
Thanks for the insight. I like Neal for what he is but I'd probably go in another direction if that's the case. Also in terms of his floor I asked more so because you said he would probably be a a pretty good player even if he doesn't reach his max potential.
Nicushkin I'd like to se play some more as well. I think he could be incredible if his head catches up to his physical skills. Speed, power, hands but really questionable hockey sense. I guess a lot like Kane but he seems to be coming around this season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21
I remember hearing a comparison made between Mantha and James Neal. Now if it's the Neal you see in Pittsburgh, it's an obvious WIN, but when Neal played in Dallas, his inconsistency was infuriating.
I like Mantha, but the consistent lack of drive can be worrisome. Again, that can be overlooked somewhat if he's on a talent laden team where he is not the marquee player.
As for Nichushkin, I was not overly impressed with him at the WJC although he did score a huge OT goal. For me, I wouldn't risk it. The Russian factor is too much for me when there are near equal talents available that don't pose the same risk. Even Russians that are playing in the CHL, I'd be wary of, although I think I'd take a chance on Zykov or Zadorov before Nichushkin.
Russian factor is always a risk for sure. We have quite a few guys from that region on our team though so perhaps that helps a bit.
Nichushkin reminds me of Kane if all of Kanes on ice negative traits were amplified. More physical skill less smarts/can be selfish/repeated moves that don't work ect.
Would really like to hear thoughts on the 7-15 area (guessing we might be in there), as well as the 30-40 area for our 2nd round pick, and the 45-60+ area for our two other seconds.
In the 7 - 15 range I suspect TN would target the likes of Nurse, Zadorov and Ristolainen if a defenseman is their pick. If it's a forward, I think they'd be looking at guys like Gauthier, Erne, Mantha, Hartman and Compher. Two players I hope would be in consideration in this area are the Swedes - Burakowsky and Wennberg, but TN seems to have a "Zero Euros" draft philosophy.
In the 30 - 60 range I see TN looking at players like Fasching, Hayden, Carrier, Kujawinski, McCoshen and Santini. Again, would hope that Lehkonen, Dano and Bjorkstrand would be in the conversation.
...but TN seems to have a "Zero Euros" draft philosophy.
...
This is a bit overblown, IMO. It's only been two drafts, only one draft with their own scouting staff in place. Let's wait at least on emore year before declaring this. Particularly now with the change in protection rights for players drafted out of Europe, I expect them to take more Europeans (and there will be many more drafted in the NHL overall). Getting Europeans over in two years was always tricky, now with 4 years I expect more teams to take flyers on talented Europeans.
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2012 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS LA KINGS!!! GO JETS GO!
This is a bit overblown, IMO. It's only been two drafts, only one draft with their own scouting staff in place. Let's wait at least on emore year before declaring this. Particularly now with the change in protection rights for players drafted out of Europe, I expect them to take more Europeans (and there will be many more drafted in the NHL overall). Getting Europeans over in two years was always tricky, now with 4 years I expect more teams to take flyers on talented Europeans.
Not only that, but look at Atlanta's previous draft history. They didn't go to Europe much or have very much success drafting from there. I think it's very obvious there's not very much confidence in our European scouting staff.
We also hired an extra Euro scout this year. Which shows the lack of confidence and I'm pretty sure they aren't paying an extra salary for absolutely no reason if they wanted to stay away from Europe.
Can anyone tell me a little bit about Carrier. Also I would really like to see us draft a Euro this year maybe somebody like De La Rose if he dropped to the second round.
This is a bit overblown, IMO. It's only been two drafts, only one draft with their own scouting staff in place. Let's wait at least on emore year before declaring this. Particularly now with the change in protection rights for players drafted out of Europe, I expect them to take more Europeans (and there will be many more drafted in the NHL overall). Getting Europeans over in two years was always tricky, now with 4 years I expect more teams to take flyers on talented Europeans.
Maybe so, but until they do it's going to seem that way. Hopefully they have hired the right guy to join their scouting staff. Someone who can truly identify some skilled european talent even if it is in later rounds.
I'm not pro European by any means, but I do hate missing out on these skilled kids while teams like Ottawa and Detroit scoop them up. We need a mix of all styles within the Organization.
Can anyone tell me a little bit about Carrier. Also I would really like to see us draft a Euro this year maybe somebody like De La Rose if he dropped to the second round.
I've been trying to view a lot of QMJHL games and haven't gotten to Carrier just yet. The games I have seen I've really liked him, I'm always surprised at why he gets rated so low. He's got quite a strong physical toolset and has a lot of drive behind his game. I've seen some hockey IQ concerns, but it's really hard to judge given his linemates. Although like I said I still need to see more of him.
Just finished watching some Valentin Zykov though. This kid is nutty good and should become another riser. Tons of potential. He does everything quite well, but I like his competitiveness and body control. He really knows how to use his body for puck control and his hand eye coordination is exceptional. Skating needs some improvement though. I'd still put Erne, Gauthier, Drouin, and MacKinnon over him (as far as QMJHL prospects go), but I've liked him better than Mantha, Carrier, and Duclair so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21
Maybe so, but until they do it's going to seem that way. Hopefully they have hired the right guy to join their scouting staff. Someone who can truly identify some skilled european talent even if it is in later rounds.
I'm not pro European by any means, but I do hate missing out on these skilled kids while teams like Ottawa and Detroit scoop them up. We need a mix of all styles within the Organization.
Well one of the guys they hired was with the St. Louis Blues who have been one of the best teams at drafting European players, so hopefully that helps.
I've been trying to view a lot of QMJHL games and haven't gotten to Carrier just yet. The games I have seen I've really liked him, I'm always surprised at why he gets rated so low. He's got quite a strong physical toolset and has a lot of drive behind his game. I've seen some hockey IQ concerns, but it's really hard to judge given his linemates. Although like I said I still need to see more of him.
Just finished watching some Valentin Zykov though. This kid is nutty good and should become another riser. Tons of potential. He does everything quite well, but I like his competitiveness and body control. He really knows how to use his body for puck control and his hand eye coordination is exceptional. Skating needs some improvement though. I'd still put Erne, Gauthier, Drouin, and MacKinnon over him (as far as QMJHL prospects go), but I've liked him better than Mantha, Carrier, and Duclair so far.
Well one of the guys they hired was with the St. Louis Blues who have been one of the best teams at drafting European players, so hopefully that helps.
Any idea who it was they hired that was with the Blues scouting staff?
Agreed on your scouting report on Zykov. He could definitely be a riser. I'm not at all interested in Duclair.
One thing though, there's a lot of hype surrounding Gauthier right now because he is having such a good season in his first year in the QMJHL. The sample size is small and scouts are salivating at where he'll be in 2 or 3 years if he reaches his potential. Question is, if he doesn't maximize his potential what type of player does he end up becoming ..... Latendresse? M.A. Pouliot?
I'd be thrilled if the JETS drafted Gauthier, not so much if he ended up being no more than the aforementioned.
