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Garth Must Go/Thank You Mr. Wang

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Old
01-29-2013, 06:19 PM
  #126
leaponover
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
Hammonic is making 875k so you must figure at least 3mil and Amac is at 500k so even if he gets 2mil that's still 3.625 more then there making now and those numbers might even be considered low by today's standards.
I think those numbers are inflated. I think it will be more like 1.75 a year for Hammer and maybe 1 mil a year for Amac....

Granted Hammer does everything right but I just don't see him getting his big raise yet. Maybe next time around.

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01-31-2013, 10:01 PM
  #127
hockeygoon15
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
The 2008 draft doesn't count because there have been 4 drafts since then, with 6 first round picks, and tons of mid round picks and we have only John Tavares to show for it, a layup of a pick.

In 2009 he reaches for Calvin deHaan at #12
passing on current NHL regulars Kulikov 14, Kassian 13, Leddy 16, Kreider 19 and Josefson 20 to name a few

In 2010 he reaches a little once again for Nino at #5
passing on current NHL regulars Cam Fowler 12, Granlund 9, Skinner 7, Burmistrov 8 and Terasenko 16

In 2011 he goes a little out of the box with Ryan Strome at #5 and while Strome has never played in an NHL game, Dougie Hamilton 9 and Sean Couturier 8 (both rated higher) follow Strome and look at them now.

Now in 2012 he reaches massively at #4 for Reinhart who was rated the 10th best NA skater in the draft and once again we watch as a bevy of better players follow.

If this doesn't spell it out enough I can go on for the truly thick skulled
I've added in bold where the players you mentioned were selected overall. Using your logic, you're calling out close to half of the GMs in the league for letting players like Terasenko fall to 16.

I think the big thing that you are missing here is that these "current NHL regulars" are all drafted when they are 18 year old kids. 18 year olds are still growing and developing. These are kids, not men. Sure, some people are fully developed by that age, but the vast majority of 18 year olds are still going to be growing an inch or two and adding another 20 pounds or so before they're finished. Hell, just take a look this upcoming draft. You have guys like Burakowsky who is 6'1"/178 vs guys like Pulock at 6'/211. Pulock can probably jump right in to an NHL game. Burakowsky would fair as well as an 8th grade girl. Just because Snow isn't drafting "NHL ready" players does not mean that he has failed at drafting. In fact, I believe the opposite -- I think he has done a great job drafting. deHann was a solid pick and I don't think you'll find anyone who will complain about Strome's potential. Nino is still an unknown. How many Hugh Jessiman's has he drafted? (Perhaps Nino will make the Jessiman pick look good, but lets hope not.)

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01-31-2013, 10:14 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by leaponover View Post
I think those numbers are inflated. I think it will be more like 1.75 a year for Hammer and maybe 1 mil a year for Amac....

Granted Hammer does everything right but I just don't see him getting his big raise yet. Maybe next time around.
You really think AMac is going to play top pairing minutes and settle for $1M? He would probably get $3M+ in arbitration. And then walk the following year as a UFA.

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01-31-2013, 10:36 PM
  #129
leaponover
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You really think AMac is going to play top pairing minutes and settle for $1M? He would probably get $3M+ in arbitration. And then walk the following year as a UFA.
3M + in arbitration? Is this the KHL? No way...

He still hasn't proved he is getting top pairing minutes out of worth, only necessity. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a raise but nowhere near what others are implying.

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01-31-2013, 10:36 PM
  #130
Bunk Moreland
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Originally Posted by kasper11 View Post
You really think AMac is going to play top pairing minutes and settle for $1M? He would probably get $3M+ in arbitration. And then walk the following year as a UFA.
D-men values are at an all time high.. A-Mac is going to be in for a pretty big pay day a deservedly so.

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01-31-2013, 10:39 PM
  #131
leaponover
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Originally Posted by hockeygoon15 View Post
I've added in bold where the players you mentioned were selected overall. Using your logic, you're calling out close to half of the GMs in the league for letting players like Terasenko fall to 16.

I think the big thing that you are missing here is that these "current NHL regulars" are all drafted when they are 18 year old kids. 18 year olds are still growing and developing. These are kids, not men. Sure, some people are fully developed by that age, but the vast majority of 18 year olds are still going to be growing an inch or two and adding another 20 pounds or so before they're finished. Hell, just take a look this upcoming draft. You have guys like Burakowsky who is 6'1"/178 vs guys like Pulock at 6'/211. Pulock can probably jump right in to an NHL game. Burakowsky would fair as well as an 8th grade girl. Just because Snow isn't drafting "NHL ready" players does not mean that he has failed at drafting. In fact, I believe the opposite -- I think he has done a great job drafting. deHann was a solid pick and I don't think you'll find anyone who will complain about Strome's potential. Nino is still an unknown. How many Hugh Jessiman's has he drafted? (Perhaps Nino will make the Jessiman pick look good, but lets hope not.)
Yeah, seriously thanks for setting this guy straight. Maybe you could go on for the "hopelessly shortsighted".

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01-31-2013, 10:40 PM
  #132
Bunk Moreland
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Originally Posted by hockeygoon15 View Post
I've added in bold where the players you mentioned were selected overall. Using your logic, you're calling out close to half of the GMs in the league for letting players like Terasenko fall to 16.

I think the big thing that you are missing here is that these "current NHL regulars" are all drafted when they are 18 year old kids. 18 year olds are still growing and developing. These are kids, not men. Sure, some people are fully developed by that age, but the vast majority of 18 year olds are still going to be growing an inch or two and adding another 20 pounds or so before they're finished. Hell, just take a look this upcoming draft. You have guys like Burakowsky who is 6'1"/178 vs guys like Pulock at 6'/211. Pulock can probably jump right in to an NHL game. Burakowsky would fair as well as an 8th grade girl. Just because Snow isn't drafting "NHL ready" players does not mean that he has failed at drafting. In fact, I believe the opposite -- I think he has done a great job drafting. deHann was a solid pick and I don't think you'll find anyone who will complain about Strome's potential. Nino is still an unknown. How many Hugh Jessiman's has he drafted? (Perhaps Nino will make the Jessiman pick look good, but lets hope not.)
I've stated my disagreements earlier in this thread with Snow's picks the past couple years and do agree with the poster that you quoted. But I do agree that these are kids and I could be proven wrong and will GLADLY eat crow if Strome ends up better then Couterier and Nino has a better career than Fowler. I'm just as happy as anyone else that our farm system is so stacked, I just have had a few disagreements with the moves... Doesn't mean I'm not going to cheer my ass off for Strome or who ever.

-I know you were just using him as an example but if I remember correctly I was high on Tarasenko but the only reason he fell so much was because he was signed in the KHL.

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02-01-2013, 02:37 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
I've stated my disagreements earlier in this thread with Snow's picks the past couple years and do agree with the poster that you quoted. But I do agree that these are kids and I could be proven wrong and will GLADLY eat crow if Strome ends up better then Couterier and Nino has a better career than Fowler. I'm just as happy as anyone else that our farm system is so stacked, I just have had a few disagreements with the moves... Doesn't mean I'm not going to cheer my ass off for Strome or who ever.

-I know you were just using him as an example but if I remember correctly I was high on Tarasenko but the only reason he fell so much was because he was signed in the KHL.
And Garth has had such a good experience with the KHL so far.

It's still VERY early to draw conclusions on those drafts. Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin have really spoiled us. We expect these 18 year old kids to come in and just dominate the NHL. It's not SUPPOSED to be like that, kids are usually supposed to be in some sort of minor league system, developing their games while they finish maturing physically.

There is plenty of time for guys like Nino, Strome and De Haan to make an impact for the Islanders.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:23 AM
  #134
Bunk Moreland
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Originally Posted by GusTheo View Post
And Garth has had such a good experience with the KHL so far.

It's still VERY early to draw conclusions on those drafts. Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin and Malkin have really spoiled us. We expect these 18 year old kids to come in and just dominate the NHL. It's not SUPPOSED to be like that, kids are usually supposed to be in some sort of minor league system, developing their games while they finish maturing physically.

There is plenty of time for guys like Nino, Strome and De Haan to make an impact for the Islanders.
I completely understand.. I didn't just hating on the picks because some of the guys drafted after our guys are making an impact in the NHL. The picks I dislike are ones I disagreed with immediately and thought it was an obvious mistake at the time. I hope nothing more than for our kids to develop into solid players.

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02-01-2013, 10:05 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by LotteryForLife View Post
If you choose to comment on my post I would appreciate it if you would read it first. The last 3 years would not include the 2008 draft, the one that Travis Hamonic was taken in. And yes, it isn't too much to ask for a few of the many prospects we've drafted since 2009 to actually play regularly for a team that hasn't been out of last place in 6 years. Especially when many of the players taken after guys like Strome, Nino and even Reinhart are already playing in the NHL
Do you realize how ridiculous it is to look at only the last three years and try to judge Snow's drafting? These kids are all 22 and under. The goal is not to draft the one player who is the most NHL ready, the goal is to draft the player who is going to have the best career.

Was Bailey a better pick than Eberle in 2008 because he had two NHL seasons under his belt while Eberle was still in the minors? Was Brandon Sutter a better pick than Ryan McDonogh in 2007? Was Michael Frolik a better pick than Michael Grabner in 2006?

I would much prefer that Snow draft players that will take a bit longer to develop but turn into better players down the line. You don't win the Cup with players that are good enough to make the NHL, you win with players that can play in the NHL at a high level.

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by hockeygoon15 View Post
I've added in bold where the players you mentioned were selected overall. Using your logic, you're calling out close to half of the GMs in the league for letting players like Terasenko fall to 16.

I think the big thing that you are missing here is that these "current NHL regulars" are all drafted when they are 18 year old kids. 18 year olds are still growing and developing. These are kids, not men. Sure, some people are fully developed by that age, but the vast majority of 18 year olds are still going to be growing an inch or two and adding another 20 pounds or so before they're finished. Hell, just take a look this upcoming draft. You have guys like Burakowsky who is 6'1"/178 vs guys like Pulock at 6'/211. Pulock can probably jump right in to an NHL game. Burakowsky would fair as well as an 8th grade girl. Just because Snow isn't drafting "NHL ready" players does not mean that he has failed at drafting. In fact, I believe the opposite -- I think he has done a great job drafting. deHann was a solid pick and I don't think you'll find anyone who will complain about Strome's potential. Nino is still an unknown. How many Hugh Jessiman's has he drafted? (Perhaps Nino will make the Jessiman pick look good, but lets hope not.)
Do we give...does Snow deserve "props" for passing on Filatov? Perhaps he/his scouting crew noticed something which soured them on NF?

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02-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #137
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Do we give...does Snow deserve "props" for passing on Filatov? Perhaps he/his scouting crew noticed something which soured them on NF?
I was sooo hoping they'd pick Filatov too. And at the time, I remember a few posters saying it was a mistake passing on Filatov. I'm so glad they did.

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02-01-2013, 02:52 PM
  #138
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I was sooo hoping they'd pick Filatov too. And at the time, I remember a few posters saying it was a mistake passing on Filatov. I'm so glad they did.
I was flipping out when they passed on him. I'm so happy I was wrong though.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #139
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Yeah, seriously thanks for setting this guy straight. Maybe you could go on for the "hopelessly shortsighted".
{MOD EDIT}

The Trouba-Reinhart argument is all you need to know. The fact that he's bashing Snow over a draft pick from 7 months ago is bad enough. The fact that he's calling him an idiot for not taking Trouba, when the entire time leading up to the draft this guy wanted Matt Dumba... it just makes it worse.

Nino, Strome, Reinhart... all busts apparently. And 2008 doesn't count because it's "old".


Last edited by Homeland Security: 02-01-2013 at 07:31 PM. Reason: Edit
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Old
02-01-2013, 05:04 PM
  #140
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ya he's terrible for getting players ON WAIVERS for absolutely nothing:

Grabner
Moulson
PAP
Nabokov
Strait

4 of these 5 players are CURRENTLY top level NHL players and yet he got them for free on cheap contracts. This number could soon become 5 for 5 as Strait is looking like another potential gem...but hey, he's terrible for taking some bad gambles at the draft (which is the case for every team if you look closer)


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02-01-2013, 06:08 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
ya he's terrible for getting players ON WAIVERS for absolutely nothing:

Grabner
Moulson
PAP
Nabokov
Strait

4 of these 5 players are CURRENTLY top level NHL players and yet he got them for free on cheap contracts. This number could soon become 5 for 5 as Strait is looking like another potential gem...but hey, he's terrible for taking some bad gambles at the draft (which is the case for every team if you look closer)

Moulson was a UFA signing.

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02-01-2013, 06:32 PM
  #142
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Moulson was a UFA signing.
As was PAP

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02-01-2013, 06:43 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Streit Power View Post
ya he's terrible for getting players ON WAIVERS for absolutely nothing:

Grabner
Moulson
PAP
Nabokov
Strait

4 of these 5 players are CURRENTLY top level NHL players and yet he got them for free on cheap contracts. This number could soon become 5 for 5 as Strait is looking like another potential gem...but hey, he's terrible for taking some bad gambles at the draft (which is the case for every team if you look closer)

-2 of those players weren't waivers

-Strait has played in 7 games for us so far-let's not expect him to keep performing at this level. I hope he does-but the fact right now is that we don't know if he will or not.

-The team is playing very well right now-we all know that-but only time will tell if it's just a streak, or if it's the real deal.

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02-01-2013, 07:04 PM
  #144
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i've never graded Snow higher than a B-. Usually I think of him as a C+ or C; I just don't see giving a GM a B or higher when the team hasn't made the playoffs. but he's done quite a bit and for the first time in a while i feel there may be a reason for hope. it really all starts with JT, but Garth is putting together a framework that can support success. we'll see. but he doesn't "need to go."

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02-01-2013, 08:14 PM
  #145
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I was sooo hoping they'd pick Filatov too. And at the time, I remember a few posters saying it was a mistake passing on Filatov. I'm so glad they did.
mea culpa

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:37 PM
  #146
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Any person who blames Snow without blaming Wang....



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