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Should Hordichuk be in the line-up more?

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:39 AM
  #26
Lessy
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Originally Posted by Pointteen View Post
Sutton and Peckham are both injured. We've basically got Petrell and Hartikainen plus Smid and Petry for toughness.

Fistric hasn't played very much either.
I would love to see Hordichuk play, but at the same time I don't want to remove anyone from the lineup to slot him in. Maybe Paajarvi if it's against a particularly tough team.
That says all you need to know about this team. Not to pump the Don Cherry stereotype but it's largely true - when three Euro's (I love Smid and Harti) and an American are your team toughness you have a serious problem in that department.

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01-31-2013, 10:22 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Tree444 View Post
Trying to sum up Hordichuk in 1:11 worth of ice time is as stupid as saying Yakupov is a dud because he didn't score in his first 1:11 of icetime.

Yah, his one memorable moment that game was that he took a bad penalty. And yes, he hasn't given Kreuger anything yet to be confident about.

I'd prefer a guy that can play regular hockey shifts AND be tough (Ben Eager SHOULD be that guy... if only he was a) healthy and b) willing to get dirty). But I don't like going in games where we don't have a single guy who can respond to dirty play. The only name who jumps out as a decent enough fighter is Ladislav Smid, and we're not talking about a guy who scares people at all.. nor does Mark Fistric either.

Peckham when 100% healthy can do it, but god knows when that will be.

Looking down the lineup, we don't have a single guy that can respond and make guys pay for taking liberties on our stars. I'm not 100% sure Hordi is that guy (due to his other hockey skills), but he's very willing, and when he's playing a good game he'll take liberties with the other team's stars (it's nice being on the "good" side of that battle).

So that said, I like Hordi. I'd still prefer someone like a Jason Smith type who will completely lose his sh-- on you if you touch a star player, but still has the ability to play a good hockey shift.

I laugh at the comments that we have "Petrell, Hartikainen, etc" for toughness. These guys can hit well and are strong on the puck, but that kind of toughness isn't the same as someone who keeps guys honest.

Hordichuk is unfortunately like any other player.... he isn't going to get into game shape and make much of an impact if he plays 1 in every dozen games for about 1 minute per night. But in fairness, we don't want him playing 8 minutes a night either.

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01-31-2013, 10:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by alexo View Post
Trying to sum up Hordichuk in 1:11 worth of ice time is as stupid as saying Yakupov is a dud because he didn't score in his first 1:11 of icetime.

Yah, his one memorable moment that game was that he took a bad penalty. And yes, he hasn't given Kreuger anything yet to be confident about.

I'd prefer a guy that can play regular hockey shifts AND be tough (Ben Eager SHOULD be that guy... if only he was a) healthy and b) willing to get dirty). But I don't like going in games where we don't have a single guy who can respond to dirty play. The only name who jumps out as a decent enough fighter is Ladislav Smid, and we're not talking about a guy who scares people at all.. nor does Mark Fistric either.

Peckham when 100% healthy can do it, but god knows when that will be.

Looking down the lineup, we don't have a single guy that can respond and make guys pay for taking liberties on our stars. I'm not 100% sure Hordi is that guy (due to his other hockey skills), but he's very willing, and when he's playing a good game he'll take liberties with the other team's stars (it's nice being on the "good" side of that battle).

So that said, I like Hordi. I'd still prefer someone like a Jason Smith type who will completely lose his sh-- on you if you touch a star player, but still has the ability to play a good hockey shift.

I laugh at the comments that we have "Petrell, Hartikainen, etc" for toughness. These guys can hit well and are strong on the puck, but that kind of toughness isn't the same as someone who keeps guys honest.

Hordichuk is unfortunately like any other player.... he isn't going to get into game shape and make much of an impact if he plays 1 in every dozen games for about 1 minute per night. But in fairness, we don't want him playing 8 minutes a night either.
Hordi doesn't keep anyone honest either. You want to keep teams honest you get yourself a 6'7 260lb monster that is willing to do what Morris did yesterday. That will keep teams honest.

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01-31-2013, 10:37 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Hordi doesn't keep anyone honest either. You want to keep teams honest you get yourself a 6'7 260lb monster that is willing to do what Morris did yesterday. That will keep teams honest.
I don't think the big heavies really keep guys honest because they rarely see the ice. It has to be a guy that can actually play hockey. The Bruins are lucky because they've got more than one tough guy that fight better than most guys in the league, and play good hockey.

The thing I like most about Hordichuk though is he's somewhat of a deterrent... agreed that he's not necessarily the best deterrent.. however he's a real good instigator when he's on his game. We generally "react" to stuff, and it's nice to have someone who gets the other team's shorts in a bunch. That to me is as good if not far better than having a guy on your roster to deal with the Raffi Torres / Jordin Tootoos of the league.

That all said, he has to play smarter than cross checking a guy in the offensive zone and taking a penalty. But I do see a use for Hordi here. If Eager could take a lesson from him on some of the dirt in his game, I think we'd have the exact type of player that I'm looking for, for that (although it doesn't help that Eager is having concussion issues now.

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01-31-2013, 12:04 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by alexo View Post
I don't think the big heavies really keep guys honest because they rarely see the ice. It has to be a guy that can actually play hockey. The Bruins are lucky because they've got more than one tough guy that fight better than most guys in the league, and play good hockey.

The thing I like most about Hordichuk though is he's somewhat of a deterrent... agreed that he's not necessarily the best deterrent.. however he's a real good instigator when he's on his game. We generally "react" to stuff, and it's nice to have someone who gets the other team's shorts in a bunch. That to me is as good if not far better than having a guy on your roster to deal with the Raffi Torres / Jordin Tootoos of the league.

That all said, he has to play smarter than cross checking a guy in the offensive zone and taking a penalty. But I do see a use for Hordi here. If Eager could take a lesson from him on some of the dirt in his game, I think we'd have the exact type of player that I'm looking for, for that (although it doesn't help that Eager is having concussion issues now.
You say that and then defend Hordichuk??? No one is scared of Hordichuk, he cant play hockey. He can only punch, hit and take penalties.

Petrell, Smyth, Jones, PRV, Harti >>> Hordichuk

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01-31-2013, 12:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheBusDriver View Post
You say that and then defend Hordichuk??? No one is scared of Hordichuk, he cant play hockey. He can only punch, hit and take penalties.

Petrell, Smyth, Jones, PRV, Harti >>> Hordichuk
Did you stop reading after the bolded line? My defense of him was that he is the type that initiates the stuff that we want a big tough guy in the line up for. Rather than being reactive, I'm saying it would be nice to have a guy in the line up who starts that stuff and has the other team focusing on how to get even with him.

And I also stated that I don't think Hordichuk isn't my preference for the role I want filled on this team, but he's the best that we've got for that role. None of the guys you mention above are really capable of intimidation or agitation in any sort of way either. The stress on why I like Hordichuk in the lineup from time to time is that he has no problem taking liberties with the other teams' players and getting opponents off their game. Jones is still hurt, so no point bringing him up... I look forward to having him in the lineup though.

Also when citing penalties, most people only look at the raw PIMs number. Hordichuk had a mere 7 minor penalties last year in 43 games played. Taking TOI into account that still isn't all that big and is blown out of proportion, if you ask me.

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01-31-2013, 12:39 PM
  #32
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No. He's a bad hockey player. I love the look of our bottom 2 lines right now. Don't want to see Hordi in as long as they're playing like they are...or ever again, really.

Fistric? Yeah, I'd love to see him in for Potter.

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01-31-2013, 12:40 PM
  #33
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Exactly this.

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01-31-2013, 01:46 PM
  #34
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People have really short memories. He's a great agitator and is able to draw more penalties than he takes. If used effectively, he can be a great asset. One game with one minute of icetime isn't the best indicator

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01-31-2013, 04:03 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
People have really short memories. He's a great agitator and is able to draw more penalties than he takes. If used effectively, he can be a great asset. One game with one minute of icetime isn't the best indicator
Is he a great agitator in the same sense that Stortini was a great agitator?

Can he be used effectively in the same sense that Linus Omark can be used effectively?

Can you make a case that every Edmonton Oiler in the last three years is a useful part of the team, and it's not due to a weak roster, top-to-bottom, that we've been the worst team in the league?

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01-31-2013, 04:06 PM
  #36
Horseradish
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
That says all you need to know about this team. Not to pump the Don Cherry stereotype but it's largely true - when three Euro's (I love Smid and Harti) and an American are your team toughness you have a serious problem in that department.
That's totally xenophobic nonsense. Nationality doesn't have a god damn thing to do with toughness. Not to bring up the "Albertan" stereotype...but you fit it like a dirty glove.

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01-31-2013, 04:12 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Tree444 View Post
That is the dumbest most short-sighted analysis of a player I have ever seen. You could break down almost any player's first shifts of the year and they probably won't look much better.

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01-31-2013, 04:15 PM
  #38
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That is the dumbest most short-sighted analysis of a player I have ever seen. You could break down almost any player's first shifts of the year and they probably won't look much better.
Normally, you'd be right. However, that shift doesn't look much different from any other Hordichuk shift.

Kreuger stapled him to the bench immediately after it. If it wasn't indicative of more systematic problems in Hordichuk's game, he wouldn't have done that.

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01-31-2013, 04:24 PM
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What I see is an unskilled 4th line guy getting 2 hits in 4 shifts. That's at least 10 percent of our average number of hits in a game in 4 shifts. He would increase our number of hits in a game by 30-40% if he played 3-4 minutes a night.
We are continually letting other teams skate around with their heads down playing a completely comfortable game with no fear of getting hammered. No one else on the team will do it, why should one bad penalty on the year mean he sits? No one was benched for the systematic errors last Tuesday.

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01-31-2013, 06:11 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
What I see is an unskilled 4th line guy getting 2 hits in 4 shifts. That's at least 10 percent of our average number of hits in a game in 4 shifts. He would increase our number of hits in a game by 30-40% if he played 3-4 minutes a night.
We are continually letting other teams skate around with their heads down playing a completely comfortable game with no fear of getting hammered. No one else on the team will do it, why should one bad penalty on the year mean he sits? No one was benched for the systematic errors last Tuesday.
You realize that hits in and of themselves don't win games, right?

A guy who bleeds chances against but contributes a few hits, still bleeds chances against. Chances win a lot more games than hits.

Hordichuk is a useless NHL hockey player, regardless of hits.

And he's not a good skater, nor does he EVER play against other teams' top lines, so who cares if he hits a 3rd or 4th liner on another team. First of all, usually they'll be able to avoid those hits from a hardly mobile cement truck. Secondly, the stars, the guys who matter when it comes to scoring, still aren't going to fear getting hammered.

Useless hockey player.

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01-31-2013, 06:59 PM
  #41
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Once every three to four games, depending on his performance.

With a compacted schedule, you should play everyone.

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01-31-2013, 07:18 PM
  #42
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He cost the Oilers a very winnable game against Calgary. Should have waived him and hoped someone is dumb enough to take him off the books.

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01-31-2013, 10:55 PM
  #43
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No.

To clarify, no.

To re-iterate, no.

To confirm, no.

NO.

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01-31-2013, 11:16 PM
  #44
T-Funk
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You realize that hits in and of themselves don't win games, right?
OHHHHH I get it thx.

Enjoy another game getting pushed around by the Sharks.

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01-31-2013, 11:18 PM
  #45
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OHHHHH I get it thx.

Enjoy another game getting pushed around by the Sharks.
Don't even bother pretending that Hordichuk could change that. His two minutes tonight have been another complete trainwreck.

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01-31-2013, 11:20 PM
  #46
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Don't even bother pretending that Hordichuk could change that. His two minutes tonight have been another complete trainwreck.
I don't think Hordichuk is very good at all, but him throwing hits gets others to throw hits. If everyone else wants to go out and play like men, then by all means sit Hordichuk.

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02-01-2013, 12:26 AM
  #47
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I don't think Hordichuk is very good at all, but him throwing hits gets others to throw hits. If everyone else wants to go out and play like men, then by all means sit Hordichuk.
I'd love to know by what metric you're basing this asinine assertion on. Did you calculate the number of hits the team throws when he's in vs. when he's out of the lineup?

Cuz I'm pretty sure he makes no difference, other than needing other players to play more ice-time to cover for his inability to cover a regular shift.

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02-01-2013, 12:39 AM
  #48
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I don't think Hordichuk is very good at all, but him throwing hits gets others to throw hits.
This same tired argument was trotted out for Stortini. It was BS then too. Hordichuk's the same clown.

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02-01-2013, 12:45 AM
  #49
Lessy
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That's totally xenophobic nonsense. Nationality doesn't have a god damn thing to do with toughness. Not to bring up the "Albertan" stereotype...but you fit it like a dirty glove.
Well I'm not from Alberta...

When the first players brought up in team toughness are Hartikainen, Smid, Petry... There's issues in this department. Canadians are generally speaking the more physical players in this league - not calling all Euro's soft or anything but if you look at the grittiest players in the league I'd say 80% are Canadian. Of course there's exceptions and it's not relevant for this discussion but there's not much sandpaper here.

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02-01-2013, 01:28 AM
  #50
Muscles Glasses
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People have really short memories. He's a great agitator and is able to draw more penalties than he takes. If used effectively, he can be a great asset. One game with one minute of icetime isn't the best indicator
Didn't that only happen once against the Wild? (Where an equally poor good went insane) I don't recall too many other games where he drew any penalties.

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