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Pull the plug and be done with it.... (Coyotes)

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Old
01-31-2013, 04:39 PM
  #51
RonSwanson*
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
While I agree that the end for Phoenix is nigh, I hate to see fans lose their franchise. You can say "what fans" but there are some. If you were the only kings fan, imagine how you'd feel if the team was suddenly moved to Nova Scotia. Sucks for them...
Don't feel too bad...



Dollar beer!

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01-31-2013, 04:39 PM
  #52
Buddy The Elf
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I personally don't buy the location argument either. There are stadiums/arenas built all over the country that don't have a problem getting people to commute. Was the attendance in Phoenix any better/worse when they weren't playing Glendale? There are probably a myriad of reasons why Phoenix isn't working out but they do have the population to support a team, they just don't seem to have the interest in the team or the sport.

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01-31-2013, 04:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Don't feel too bad...



Dollar beer!
I went to dollar beer night when the Kings played a few years ago. Needless to say, it was awesome. There were actually quite a large number of people in the upper deck just hovering around the $1 beers and not even paying attention to the game.

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01-31-2013, 05:04 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
imo it comes down to his ego. it would mean having to admit the move to PHX was a mistake. nothing more, nothing less.

TOR doesn't need a 2nd team. they have a decades old mess with the Leafs now. why add a second team to the misery? i would much rather see another Canadian city gain a team, than Toronto adding a 2nd one.

Vegas i think would turn into another PHX situation. not to mention the major sports leagues don't want to set up shop in America's gambling capitol

comes back to what i said earlier between the other two.
I think Markham will get a team but not the Coyotes but an expansion team, I have a feeling if the Coyotes move and looks like they eventually will after this unfolding, I see Seattle.

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01-31-2013, 05:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I personally don't buy the location argument either. There are stadiums/arenas built all over the country that don't have a problem getting people to commute. Was the attendance in Phoenix any better/worse when they weren't playing Glendale? There are probably a myriad of reasons why Phoenix isn't working out but they do have the population to support a team, they just don't seem to have the interest in the team or the sport.
They would have been better off staying in downtown, IMO.

The attendance at both locations follows the same pattern. AWA wasn't made for hockey and had a low max attendance (16K), which is why they really wanted out. Regardless, the population there just doesn't stay interested. The first 4-5 years when they moved to Phoenix, attendance was good/great. Then nearly averaged sellouts for the first few seasons. Then it started dropping. They moved to Glendale, and attendance rivaled when they first moved there, but they weren't selling out as Glendale seats several thousand more. After about 4-5 years, it's dropping again following the same pattern.

Location I don't think is the culprit, it's just a loss of interest of the locals. When something shiny and new shows up (new team, new arena), they definitely buy tickets. As the luster wears off, they stop coming.

Downtown, with all it's shortcomings, would still be a better spot for them. Yea, the arena sucks for hockey, but it has many other tenants to share the attendance load. That place is much busier. Take a look at Jobing's event schedule sometime in the offseason, there isn't squat going on there if the Coyote's aren't playing. IIRC, last summer less than 10 events were booked. Even during the season it is empty most nights. That place can't be making money with a schedule like that, and it's no wonder some locals are upset at putting money into a huge arena that is barely used.

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01-31-2013, 05:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Who has even expressed interest in having the team?
oh yeah, that.

And what kind of discount is this "new owner" gonna want from the NHL? Although if they get NHL approval to move the team to QC, the buyer will likely pay any amount the NHL wants and then some.

If NHL demands the team stays in US... ??? They may be in Phx a while still.

And you thought PHX crowds were sparse before? If (when!) a move is announced, they'll barely draw 3,000 - which is a shame because they're a good team.

I just don't see any US market with the potential of QC.

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01-31-2013, 05:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I personally don't buy the location argument either. There are stadiums/arenas built all over the country that don't have a problem getting people to commute. Was the attendance in Phoenix any better/worse when they weren't playing Glendale? There are probably a myriad of reasons why Phoenix isn't working out but they do have the population to support a team, they just don't seem to have the interest in the team or the sport.
Well if you didn't know whether your local team would even still be there tomorrow would you continue to support them? I think if they had a stable owner things would be better, but again who knows.

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01-31-2013, 06:14 PM
  #58
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I blame Gretzky.

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01-31-2013, 06:15 PM
  #59
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I do feel bad for the Coyotes, no fans deserve to go through this for as long as they have.

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01-31-2013, 10:51 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
I don't feel bad for Coyotes fans at all. They have a state-of-the-art arena that will last for a very long time. Add to the fact that they've had a competitive team for over 2 years now. This isn't a Sonics or Sacto Kings situation, in which arena problem was to blame.
What is going on is that there has been a threat of relocation going on for years that is keeping many away along with the bad economy that makes it hard for others on how much they can spend on tickets and such. In fact, I would have at laugh at someone if they brought tickets to any event over their own and/or their families needs. Looking at history, I have yet to see a case where the fans of any team that is facing the threat of relocation would come out in droves to pack the building in order to influence having the team stay where it is and that is regardless of what kind of building they are in. If there are any, chances are it is a very small number.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Who has even expressed interest in having the team?
Jerry Reisdorf(IMO was the only real deal in this mess) Ice Edge, Matt Hultiser, Greg Jamison.

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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
US Airways Center is not built for hockey. What other choices would they have had?
The seating is deisgened more for basketball but it is duable for hockey. Seeing the Islanders are going to move to an arena where the Nets play at 14,500 seating for hockey with limited view seating, it would only be fair for the league to see if the team can move back in US Airways Center at the rate things or going.

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Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
They just make a point to block any sales that involve moving the team. This could have been over and done with years ago.
To be fair to the league here, any team that is in trouble they would like to fix what is going wrong 1st while making relocation an last resort and their track record proves that.


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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Why did they choose Glendale over Scottsdale?
The voters of Scottsdale approved the measure 2 times to get an arena in Scottsdale but the City Council of Scottsdale didn't go through with getting an arena in the city. After seeing what went on in Glendale, I wouldn't be surprised if those same council members are saying "Boy I'm glad we didn't give this team its own building". Plus Glendale was willing to step up for this team when no other city in the Valley of the Sun would.

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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
1) NFL games are "EVENTS" that occur eight times a year on a Saturday, Sunday, or Monday night.

2) Like I said, people in Phoenix don't do traffic.



Why are these decisions ever made? Some taxpayers are more willing to provide public funds for a stadium than others.
The traffic here in Metro Phoenix today is bad just about anytime even before and after the Cardinals games. Plus almost no one in AZ was going to the Cardinals games when they were playing at Sun Devil Stadium for 20+ years and that stadium is right down the street from where the Coyotes were looking to move to in Scottsdale.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I personally don't buy the location argument either. There are stadiums/arenas built all over the country that don't have a problem getting people to commute. Was the attendance in Phoenix any better/worse when they weren't playing Glendale? There are probably a myriad of reasons why Phoenix isn't working out but they do have the population to support a team, they just don't seem to have the interest in the team or the sport.
I agree with your take on the location thing but to be accurate on the interest of hockey here, I have to say this. Metro Phoenix alone has the largest transplant population in the United States. 4.1 Million people live in the Valley of the Sun and over 70% of the people here were not born in Arizona. Some of the biggest contributors to Arizonas population include(but not limited to) Canada(More so Western Canada and Quebec), California(more so Southern California) the Mid-West(Chicago and Detroit areas mostly) New York, New Jersey, and New England. They're alot of hockey Fans in AZ and more than others would give the state credit for, it just that when you have a high population of transplants, your going to have more people who are fans of their home teams than anything else. There are exceptions. I'm from New York origionally and have lived in Arizona for over the last 10 years and I'm not a die hard fan of any of the teams in NY.

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01-31-2013, 11:23 PM
  #61
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Well, you sure are a die hard fan of one LA team, which is a cardinal sin amongs Phoenix sports fans.

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01-31-2013, 11:28 PM
  #62
gra
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Originally Posted by Grillinnap View Post
Well, you sure are a die hard fan of one LA team, which is a cardinal sin amongs Phoenix sports fans.
Seeing that most people in Metro Phoenix are not fans of the local pro teams here, it wouldn't be considered a sin. Especially since there are more Lakers fans and Celtics fans in AZ than the Suns Fans. The most popular teams of AZ sports in the state are both UA and ASU Football and UA Men's Basketball.

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01-31-2013, 11:31 PM
  #63
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Think you migh be exaggerting the "more Lakers and Boston fans" part. Phoenix fans that aren't transplants hate LA teams.

Your GDT last weekend was cringeworthy. Pretty sure your fellow Yotes fans didn't like the Lakers pictures.

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02-01-2013, 12:37 AM
  #64
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What is going on is that there has been a threat of relocation going on for years that is keeping many away along with the bad economy that makes it hard for others on how much they can spend on tickets and such. In fact, I would have at laugh at someone if they brought tickets to any event over their own and/or their families needs. Looking at history, I have yet to see a case where the fans of any team that is facing the threat of relocation would come out in droves to pack the building in order to influence having the team stay where it is and that is regardless of what kind of building they are in. If there are any, chances are it is a very small number.

The voters of Scottsdale approved the measure 2 times to get an arena in Scottsdale but the City Council of Scottsdale didn't go through with getting an arena in the city. After seeing what went on in Glendale, I wouldn't be surprised if those same council members are saying "Boy I'm glad we didn't give this team its own building". Plus Glendale was willing to step up for this team when no other city in the Valley of the Sun would.
Scottsdale is where the money is. Not Glendale.

It sounds like they went to Glendale because Glendale was the only city that was dumb enough to put up the money. If so, then shame on the Coyotes for deciding to go to poor location choice due to money.

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02-01-2013, 01:01 AM
  #65
gra
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Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Scottsdale is where the money is. Not Glendale.

It sounds like they went to Glendale because Glendale was the only city that was dumb enough to put up the money. If so, then shame on the Coyotes for deciding to go to poor location choice due to money.
With regards to where the money is, it is more North Scottsdale that is home to those who have the big money along with areas like Gold Caynon, NE Mesa, Paradise Valley, parts of Gilbert and Chandler, Carefree, much of Cave Creek, Fountain Hills, Ahwatukee Foothills to name a few. It's in the East Valley (what half of the metro area is called) that has way more people with big money than in the West Valley where the Coyotes play.

But at the end of the day, regardless of what pro team it is here or where the money is, Phoenix AZ is bandwagon fairweather fan market overall with regards to the local pro teams there and the historic attendence numbers prove that. Hell the Suns took a major hit in attendence after Robert Sarver destoyed his own investment and last season didn't sellout one home game, not even against the Lakers and they play just a few miles down from where the Coyotes were looking to move to in Scottsdale.

Before the bankruptcy was filed, the city had a sweetheart lease over the owners of the team where if the team was to be relocated a $750 Million dollar relocation fee(depericated over time) was in place in the agreement. Sadly it was Judge Balm who chose to ignore the ruilings of the Islanders and the Pens with those leases held up in court and threw out the origional lease in Glendale.


Last edited by gra: 02-01-2013 at 01:34 AM.
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02-01-2013, 11:29 AM
  #66
Buddy The Elf
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
I agree with your take on the location thing but to be accurate on the interest of hockey here, I have to say this. Metro Phoenix alone has the largest transplant population in the United States. 4.1 Million people live in the Valley of the Sun and over 70% of the people here were not born in Arizona. Some of the biggest contributors to Arizonas population include(but not limited to) Canada(More so Western Canada and Quebec), California(more so Southern California) the Mid-West(Chicago and Detroit areas mostly) New York, New Jersey, and New England. They're alot of hockey Fans in AZ and more than others would give the state credit for, it just that when you have a high population of transplants, your going to have more people who are fans of their home teams than anything else. There are exceptions. I'm from New York origionally and have lived in Arizona for over the last 10 years and I'm not a die hard fan of any of the teams in NY.
I was actually going to mention this earlier but I feel like Phoenix is a smaller, newer version of LA in terms of population. The population has really boomed in the past 20-30 years. The local LA teams benefit from existing for 40+ years in the case of the Dodgers, Lakers and Kings and during the years where the population really started to explode in the LA area. I guess you could say that is the case for Phoenix right now and presumably why Bettman has fought tooth and nail to get it to work.

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