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current Trade Value: Despres or Niskanen

View Poll Results: more value in a trade?
Despres 34 41.46%
Niskanen 42 51.22%
equal 6 7.32%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:07 PM
  #26
gordie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
You're not suggesting I'm giving up on Elmer because (in the other thread) I don't consider him to be worth "considerably more" than a 2013 1st round pick, are you? Elmer is the man; I'm excited to see him play more. I just don't think (today) he's more valuable than Niskanen is. That could easily change in six months or a year if Elmer gets back into the line up and kicks some ass.




...and then again they may not. Or all 30 teams may think Niskanen is the next Letang. OR all 30 may think they both suck. Or....
Does James Neal & Matt Niskanen for Alex Goligoski ring a bell. Like I said it takes only one team to see the potential in a player and is ready to cut a deal and this type of mentality is what the NHL Entry Draft is based on.

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01-28-2013, 05:37 PM
  #27
AquaticBirdman
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Right now? Nisky

Down the road....hard to say.

I think Despres has tremendous potential to become a quality top 4 d-man (at the bare minimum), but nothing's ever for certain as we all know. If Despres is developed properly then I think his trade value will be higher in a couple of years.

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:36 PM
  #28
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i think you are all wrong and I was right

Despres is a beast and better than Nisky

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01-31-2013, 08:42 PM
  #29
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I'm going with Despres. His upside is much better than what Niskanen brings in my opinion. He can also step in and play right now, even if he does make mistakes. He's already a pretty good player and is only going to get bigger and better.

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01-31-2013, 09:11 PM
  #30
Captain Hook
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
i think you are all wrong and I was right

Despres is a beast and better than Nisky
I still think most of us are right. Despres has the higher upside and you see flashes of great plays from him that Niskanen is not capable of but on average Niskanen will be more steady and make fewer mistakes so I still think he's the better player. Despres should blow right by him at some point over the next few years though.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:14 PM
  #31
Rectify
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It's ridiculous how after one game people jump to so many different conclusions.

OMG DEPRES RULESZSZSSZZ!!!111!!!!1!1!!!

Penguins fans are funny.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:16 PM
  #32
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
i think you are all wrong and I was right

Despres is a beast and better than Nisky
Yah, one game against one messed up team.

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01-31-2013, 09:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
i think you are all wrong and I was right

Despres is a beast and better than Nisky
I don't even know how to respond to this.

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01-31-2013, 09:18 PM
  #34
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I thought Despres played better in the Islanders game. He showed flashes tonight with the goal and an occasional physical play to clean things up in his own end but he also had some bad turnovers and a penalty. His game against the Isles was almost flawless. Overall still pretty solid the last two games and I'd even say the least 3 games since I thought his game against Toronto was good before he got healthy scratched.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:52 PM
  #35
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Wow you guys are nuts. I like Niskanen but the exaggeration of his talents is over the moon right now. He's a nice defenseman. Despres probably will be too but could also be very good. Consistent two way play with 40-50 points a year is not out of reach for him.

Not that Niskanen isn't young, but likely you'll be trading with a team that needs a player coming back that will grow with their team. Despres is the guy you'll have to trade when push comes to shove if there's a viable winger out there that isn't a quick fix.

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01-31-2013, 10:02 PM
  #36
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If Niskanen returns from injury and plays like he did before, it is him if the buying team is in the running for the playoffs. For a bottom feeder, I think Despres has more value as his ceiling is significantly higher.

Ultimately I think Despres is looking so much like a player who can be a long term solution on the top 4 for us, bringing size we genuinely need and a good alround game with his great skating, that you have to hold on to him.

Niskanen has been money for us, and the only reasons to moving him are that 1: If you have Letang in the top four it will always make it iffy having Niskanen there too as they have the same strengths and weaknesses - only Letang is superior. Neither will ever be right for a genuine shutdown unit and they should not play together (in the playoffs at least), because the pairing is just too small to consistently go against opponents best. Niskanen is great on the third pairing, but with the bevvy of affordable young talent we have there (and Engelland who is important in his own way), it is asset mismanagement considering Niskanen a third pairing D-man.
2: Niskanen has trade value and his positive characteristics can be replaced from within, as it is the only area where we are knee-deep in quality prospects.

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01-31-2013, 10:06 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holotypic View Post
It's ridiculous how after one game people jump to so many different conclusions.

OMG DEPRES RULESZSZSSZZ!!!111!!!!1!1!!!

Penguins fans are funny.
lol. Pittsburgh sports fans are knee-jerkish in general.

Despres has improved over the last two games, namely the fact that's he's been more physical. I think the Pens could use another defensive defenseman, but if it's about right now, trade Despres.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:07 PM
  #38
Darth Vitale
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If Elmer can consistently play like he did tonight going into the deadline, I'll concede that Niskanen at that point will not be more valuable. But he's got to do it, not just one or two games but 25 or 30 games. Consistently. If he does then it's pretty obvious he's arrived and we've got ourselves a horse on the blue line.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:08 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
If Niskanen returns from injury and plays like he did before, it is him if the buying team is in the running for the playoffs. For a bottom feeder, I think Despres has more value as his ceiling is significantly higher.

Ultimately I think Despres is looking so much like a player who can be a long term solution on the top 4 for us, bringing size we genuinely need and a good alround game with his great skating, that you have to hold on to him.

Niskanen has been money for us, and the only reasons to moving him are that 1: If you have Letang in the top four it will always make it iffy having Niskanen there too as they have the same strengths and weaknesses - only Letang is superior. Neither will ever be right for a genuine shutdown unit and they should not play together (in the playoffs at least), because the pairing is just too small to consistently go against opponents best. Niskanen is great on the third pairing, but with the bevvy of affordable young talent we have there (and Engelland who is important in his own way), it is asset mismanagement considering Niskanen a third pairing D-man.
2: Niskanen has trade value and his positive characteristics can be replaced from within, as it is the only area where we are knee-deep in quality prospects.
Agreed.

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01-31-2013, 10:09 PM
  #40
froods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
Wow you guys are nuts. I like Niskanen but the exaggeration of his talents is over the moon right now. He's a nice defenseman. Despres probably will be too but could also be very good. Consistent two way play with 40-50 points a year is not out of reach for him.

Not that Niskanen isn't young, but likely you'll be trading with a team that needs a player coming back that will grow with their team. Despres is the guy you'll have to trade when push comes to shove if there's a viable winger out there that isn't a quick fix.
There it is. It isn't that people are overrating Despres (although he did have a fantastic junior career). It is that Niskanen is just good. His value would be very minimal. Simon on the other hand has a much higher upside. Trading him now would be foolish, but in a year, once he has proven he can play in the league, might be the time to get max value from him. That is if that is the way they decide to go.

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01-31-2013, 10:13 PM
  #41
Mr Jiggyfly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holotypic View Post
It's ridiculous how after one game people jump to so many different conclusions.

OMG DEPRES RULESZSZSSZZ!!!111!!!!1!1!!!

Penguins fans are funny.
Some of us have held firm that you don't trade Despres all along.

Nisky is a nice player, but he doesn't have the upside Despres does.

Nisky and a high pick can bring back a nice return, assuming Despres shows he can handle top four minutes over the next several weeks.

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01-31-2013, 10:29 PM
  #42
KIRK
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Some of us have held firm that you don't trade Despres all along.

Nisky is a nice player, but he doesn't have the upside Despres does.

Nisky and a high pick can bring back a nice return, assuming Despres shows he can handle top four minutes over the next several weeks.
Whether he shows it or not (and you really won't know until April if he really can handle it), I think you can add a vet defenseman at the deadline as a safety net.

If there's a good deal for Nisky and a high pick when he returns, then you take it.

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01-31-2013, 10:46 PM
  #43
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Whether he shows it or not (and you really won't know until April if he really can handle it), I think you can add a vet defenseman at the deadline as a safety net.

If there's a good deal for Nisky and a high pick when he returns, then you take it.
I'm all about finding a blueline vet on the cheap, but I can't understand all of this talk about moving Despres.

People seem to think that guys Despres' size, who can skate like that and have that kind of offensive flair to their game grow on trees.

They are a rare breed and that is why I have been so adamant about keeping him.

If he and Bort work out, that is some serious size and talent this team desperately needs.

People didn't think GoGo had the value he did, but he had significant value. Nisky will have high value to the right team. Shero, like he did with Joe N, has to find his huckleberry.

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01-31-2013, 10:49 PM
  #44
Ugene Malkin
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You all are going on about upside, it has nothing to do about the question in hand.

*Current* Right now: who holds more trade value?

Some of you are making it harder than it needs to be. When Despres has proven his worth/value beyond Niskanen, a proven NHL D-man with a lock on a roster spot by his own play in the NHL, he will hold higher value until that time. When that point in time comes, though, that Despres passes Niskanen on the depth chart he will hold higher value, but they'll move Niskanen more readily, and hold onto Despres.

Despres will bring back likewise talent at forward who's just now breaking into the NHL just like himself. Niskanen will bring back proven NHL talent and being that (a PMD) a little more than his actual value compared to a forward.

You all are confusing us with "he won't be worth more," and that's not the case, he will, but not right now.

Despres will need something added too to get proven NHL talent.

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Old
01-31-2013, 11:00 PM
  #45
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
You all are going on about upside, it has nothing to do about the question in hand.

*Current* Right now: who holds more trade value?

Some of you are making it harder than it needs to be. When Despres has proven his worth/value beyond Niskanen, a proven NHL D-man with a lock on a roster spot by his own play in the NHL, he will hold higher value until that time. When that point in time comes, though, that Despres passes Niskanen on the depth chart he will hold higher value, but they'll move Niskanen more readily, and hold onto Despres.

Despres will bring back likewise talent at forward who's just now breaking into the NHL just like himself. Niskanen will bring back proven NHL talent and being that (a PMD) a little more than his actual value compared to a forward.

You all are confusing us with "he won't be worth more," and that's not the case, he will, but not right now.

Despres will need something added too to get proven NHL talent.
Home slice, Nisky has ZERO value currently. No GM is trading for an injured player.

So by the time he comes back and proves he is ok, it will be several weeks minimum.

By then if Despres can prove he can hold down a top four spot, with his upside, I can assure you his value will be higher than Nisky.

But that doesn't mean you trade him.

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01-31-2013, 11:13 PM
  #46
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Home slice, Nisky has ZERO value currently. No GM is trading for an injured player.

So by the time he comes back and proves he is ok, it will be several weeks minimum.

By then if Despres can prove he can hold down a top four spot, with his upside, I can assure you his value will be higher than Nisky.

But that doesn't mean you trade him.

Thank you.

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01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
  #47
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Thank you.
Once again his current value is zero. You are trying to make a case for something that doesn't exist. GMs don't trade for injured players.

When did Nisky ever prove he was a viable top four guy? Spot duty last season and a few games this year? We aren't talking about a veteran top four guy here. Given his potential upside, it is pretty easy to see how Despres playing well in the next several weeks could skyrocket his value over Nisky.

By the time Nisky is back his injury could hamper him and hurt his trade value, Despres may have his spot in the top four locked down or he may be back on the bench.

A whole lot of ifs, which is all we have to go on because Nisky's "current value" does not exist, like you just claimed it did.

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01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holotypic View Post
It's ridiculous how after one game people jump to so many different conclusions.

OMG DEPRES RULESZSZSSZZ!!!111!!!!1!1!!!

Penguins fans are funny.
What makes you think people wouldn't have said the same thing a year ago? Or two years ago? I know I would have.

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01-31-2013, 11:59 PM
  #49
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Even if Niskanen was fully healthy I think Despres would still hold more trade value. I like Niskanen, he's been solid, but I think some people tend to over value him in my opinion.

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02-01-2013, 12:13 AM
  #50
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Once again his current value is zero. You are trying to make a case for something that doesn't exist. GMs don't trade for injured players.

When did Nisky ever prove he was a viable top four guy? Spot duty last season and a few games this year? We aren't talking about a veteran top four guy here. Given his potential upside, it is pretty easy to see how Despres playing well in the next several weeks could skyrocket his value over Nisky.

By the time he is back his injury could hamper him and hurt his trade value, Despres may have his spot in the top four locked down or he may be back on the bench.

A whole lot of ifs, which is all we have to go on because Nisky's "current value" does not exist, like you just claimed it did.
He's a top 4 D-man on the pens before the injury, now, and after he comes back. Now if Despres passes him up and only then is he worth more.

One is and one is riding your, if. When he does I'll surely admit it.

It's all the same theory like when Sid went down, and all of a sudden he loses his best in the world tag because of an injury.

Give me a break. Top 4 is top 4. His value won't change, now Despres can escalate his, but he's far less proven, and has yet to prove your point yet. He actually has to put that time in and prove he's a permanent top 4 D-man, and even then Niskanen is still worth more.

One game against a inferior foe at the moment doesn't prove this.

Some one does have a track record in the NHL and in the top 4. You discount his time in Dallas, and he does have 375 games played. Experience. That's between 150 and 200 games in the top 4. Despres has had enough to count on one hand.

Plain and simple, Shero is not getting a proven NHL talent with Despres alone. This thread was made while Niskanen was healthy and it's still true to form now even with the injury. No duh, a GM won't trade for an injured player. Unless he's coming back from some disconfigurement that will keep his ankle from preforming, (meaning he shouldn't be back yet) his value will not change. He has the luxury to prove he's not a top 4 anymore, not that he is one.

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