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The Luongo Thread: Cory Who?

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01-31-2013, 11:36 PM
  #201
Tiranis
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
I don't know if that's necessarily the case. They're obviously not getting shutdown minutes, but they're facing some decent players (13% of Ballard's 5 on 5 TOI this season has been against Selanne and Ryan, for instance) and getting 50% O-zone starts.
His Top 10 seem all to be Ducks. Weird. That doesn't seem right.

Edit: Here are Ballard's stats by opponent, etc: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

His Top 10 are indeed Ducks, pretty surprising. Seems like they matched him to some players on the Ducks for whatever reason. As expected, substantially worse performance when facing guys like Selanne and better when facing guys like Stajan, Smith-Pelly, Stoll, etc.

Here's Bieksa: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

and here's Edler: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5


Last edited by Tiranis: 01-31-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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Old
01-31-2013, 11:39 PM
  #202
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I've got to be honest, it pains me to know Lu is likely gone soon. Will probably have withdrawals and a pang of regret watching him making huge saves on some other team. I think tomorrow's game is a big test, apart from the Keith consideration. We can't be hovering around .500 forever, a win will be big. If Lu stands on his head again i can't wait for all the goalie controversy angles. "Whos the number 1 really?" "Should Canucks hold on to Roberto?" Will management have second guesses? Is it too late now anyways regardless?

Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of faith in Schneids too, but he will be facing a ton of pressure.

In a perfect world, Lou has the run of his career and wins the first Cup for Van before parting ways amicably with the team next season. How ****ing sweet would that be. He seems to be playing with a lot of ease this year so far, last couple games anyways. But it's no surprise really. Far too much blame is put on him for our playoff loss to the Bruins. The fact is Canucks couldn't score. Your goalie can only bail you out for so long.

The rust should be wearing off, it's time to see what this team is made of. Really hoping they prove me right and show up in full force tomorrow.

I give Lou all the credit in the world for how he's handled himself throughout everything. Never complains, always professional and great sense of humour. I'll always be a fan wherever he ends up. (pleeeease not Chicago)
I'm all for trading whomever gets the better return.

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01-31-2013, 11:42 PM
  #203
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This is actually a very one sided way of thinking. So Kadri is showing the kind of offensive potential that should be expected of his high draft position. Are you suggesting he would only be available from the Leafs if he was looking like a bust?

If he's looking like a 60-70 point player then that's exactly the type of guy Gillis should be after. This is Kadri's contract year anyways, so it's not like the Leafs are in a position to take advantage of competing with a productive ELC player in their top six.

Now if Kadri is someone that could be a franchise player then that's understandable. But the impression I'm more getting from Leaf fans is something like "OMG he's actually pretty good, we can't trade him now!"

Eventually Kadri's will grow older, his play/potential will level out, and your fans will start knit picking at whatever shortcomings he has. It happens to young players on every team. Does he really project to be a player that isn't worth trading a starting goalie for?

With the way he (and Reimer) are playing right now, there certainly won't be a deal for Luongo. Not now.

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01-31-2013, 11:43 PM
  #204
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With the way he (and Reimer) are playing right now, there certainly won't be a deal for Luongo. Not now.
ok...... With the way Kassian is playing, he's worth more than Kessel.

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01-31-2013, 11:44 PM
  #205
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ok...... With the way Kassian is playing, he's worth more than Kessel.
Kassian is off to a fantastic start. What does this have to do with anything?

My point about Kadri and Reimer's play has nothing to do with trade value. My point is that with their emergence early on, it would seem less likely that Nonis would pursue a Luongo trade. It's my opinion and nothing more.

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01-31-2013, 11:46 PM
  #206
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Kassian is off to a fantastic start. What does this have to do with anything?
That evaluating a player over a small sample size (your goalies) isn't the way you run a team.

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01-31-2013, 11:50 PM
  #207
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That evaluating a player over a small sample size (your goalies) isn't the way you run a team.
Exactly. That's why I think both Reimer and Kadri will get a chance to prove themselves throughout this season. Kadri in particular is off to a great start.

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01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
His Top 10 seem all to be Ducks. Weird. That doesn't seem right.

Edit: Here are Ballard's stats by opponent, etc: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

His Top 10 are indeed Ducks, pretty surprising. Seems like they matched him to some players on the Ducks for whatever reason. As expected, substantially worse performance when facing guys like Selanne and better when facing guys like Stajan, Smith-Pelly, Stoll, etc.

Here's Bieksa: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5

and here's Edler: http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...012-13&sit=5v5
Top 10 are ducks because they've played them twice?

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01-31-2013, 11:55 PM
  #209
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Got it haha, thanks.

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02-01-2013, 12:13 AM
  #210
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Top 10 are ducks because they've played them twice?
Edler has Hall, Eberle and RNH in his. Bieksa has Doughty and Bouwmeester. Just surprised by how consistently Ballard seemed to be matched up against some of those guys.

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02-01-2013, 12:37 AM
  #211
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does the impact of less pressure on Luongo enable him to perform better?
It seems that he has struggled out of the gate in recent years, and looking at it now he seems more composed and relaxed.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:43 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by yoss View Post
I've got to be honest, it pains me to know Lu is likely gone soon. Will probably have withdrawals and a pang of regret watching him making huge saves on some other team. I think tomorrow's game is a big test, apart from the Keith consideration. We can't be hovering around .500 forever, a win will be big. If Lu stands on his head again i can't wait for all the goalie controversy angles. "Whos the number 1 really?" "Should Canucks hold on to Roberto?" Will management have second guesses? Is it too late now anyways regardless?

Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of faith in Schneids too, but he will be facing a ton of pressure.

In a perfect world, Lou has the run of his career and wins the first Cup for Van before parting ways amicably with the team next season. How ****ing sweet would that be. He seems to be playing with a lot of ease this year so far, last couple games anyways. But it's no surprise really. Far too much blame is put on him for our playoff loss to the Bruins. The fact is Canucks couldn't score. Your goalie can only bail you out for so long.

The rust should be wearing off, it's time to see what this team is made of. Really hoping they prove me right and show up in full force tomorrow.

I give Lou all the credit in the world for how he's handled himself throughout everything. Never complains, always professional and great sense of humour. I'll always be a fan wherever he ends up. (pleeeease not Chicago)
Totally represents my feelings.

I really think he has not been fully appreciated here, especially by the younger fans. Having watched this team since its inception, I feel he is far and away the best goalie we ever had ( including McLean and King Richard). He has gotten too much of the blame for the cup loss. No team can be expected to win with the pitiful offensive output we had there.

I know Schneider is the best to keep because he will keep us competitive for more years. However, if he can get us a better return in a trade, we should deal him. Lou is more than adequate for the next few years while the Sedins are still excelling. If trading Schneider can get us a return that can win us the cup, I would gladly accept the next 5 years like the Oilers last five.

I've watched this team for 40 years and would like just one cup before my time is up.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:28 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by triplets View Post
Totally represents my feelings.

I really think he has not been fully appreciated here, especially by the younger fans. Having watched this team since its inception, I feel he is far and away the best goalie we ever had ( including McLean and King Richard). He has gotten too much of the blame for the cup loss. No team can be expected to win with the pitiful offensive output we had there.

I know Schneider is the best to keep because he will keep us competitive for more years. However, if he can get us a better return in a trade, we should deal him. Lou is more than adequate for the next few years while the Sedins are still excelling. If trading Schneider can get us a return that can win us the cup, I would gladly accept the next 5 years like the Oilers last five.

I've watched this team for 40 years and would like just one cup before my time is up.
I have about 15 years less on you as a fan, but i hear you there for sure. Lou willed this team to the playoffs couple times in the days before the twins and Kesler fully emerged as the offensive threats they've become. He is easily the best goalie we've ever had imo.

If Nucks can put it together this year, in my mind they are arguably as good as the team that went to the finals couple years ago. Maybe better. A healthy Kesler will be important.

We're still in the golden years of this franchise imo, and its a great time to be a Nucks fan. If Lu gets traded i really hope it's for a reasonably substantial return. If not, then having two number 1's for another season is a nice luxury to have.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:29 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by gongshowmonkey View Post
does the impact of less pressure on Luongo enable him to perform better?
It seems that he has struggled out of the gate in recent years, and looking at it now he seems more composed and relaxed.
I felt that would be the case. You can see in the way he plays, in his interviews and his tweets. That won't last because the current situation won't last.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:34 AM
  #215
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I've watched this team for 40 years and would like just one cup before my time is up.
Some people don't understand how much I need this. There's always next year, they say. I put in perspective for them. The first time the Canucks made the finals, I was in grade school. The second time, I was writing the certification exams for my profession (the very next day after game 7). The third time, I'm closer to retirement than I am to the start of my career. That's sobering.

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02-01-2013, 01:39 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by triplets View Post
Totally represents my feelings.

I really think he has not been fully appreciated here, especially by the younger fans. Having watched this team since its inception, I feel he is far and away the best goalie we ever had ( including McLean and King Richard). He has gotten too much of the blame for the cup loss. No team can be expected to win with the pitiful offensive output we had there.

I know Schneider is the best to keep because he will keep us competitive for more years. However, if he can get us a better return in a trade, we should deal him. Lou is more than adequate for the next few years while the Sedins are still excelling. If trading Schneider can get us a return that can win us the cup, I would gladly accept the next 5 years like the Oilers last five.

I've watched this team for 40 years and would like just one cup before my time is up.
Great post. I have been a fan for 36 years now. We had no chance in 82, we had a chance in game 7 in 94 , and we SHOULD have won in 2011.

However, I do not believe we are contenders without the Sedin twins. They at least eat up the top pairing and top checkers. Expecting Kesler to score 90 points is unrealistic.

When Luongo goes south, it will be about time the Sedins will drop to second liners as well. At this point they might go back to Modo , and Luongo retire or otherwise. By then Eddie Lack could be just as good as Schneider is now.

So, lets trade Cory Schneider for a package of young talent and picks , and keep Luongo.

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02-01-2013, 01:42 AM
  #217
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Do it for us old farts!

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:46 AM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Fat Tony View Post
Some people don't understand how much I need this. There's always next year, they say. I put in perspective for them. The first time the Canucks made the finals, I was in grade school. The second time, I was writing the certification exams for my profession (the very next day after game 7). The third time, I'm closer to retirement than I am to the start of my career. That's sobering.


Its worse for me.
I was at my 3rd year at UBC the first time they made the finals. I am also closer to retirement than the start of my career. If Schneider gets a better return, do the deal and get the cup. I'll take even 10yrs in the wilderness after that. It couldn't be worse than the Pride Hustle Desire (PHD) days.

This is why I get incredibly frustrated reading some of the comments from fans who have recently started following this team, so have no perspective on how bad it could be.


Last edited by triplets: 02-01-2013 at 01:47 AM. Reason: correcting PHD
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Old
02-01-2013, 01:51 AM
  #219
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Its worse for me.
I was at my 3rd year at UBC the first time they made the finals. I am also closer to retirement than the start of my career. If Schneider gets a better return, do the deal and get the cup. I'll take even 10yrs in the wilderness after that. It couldn't be worse than the Pride Hustle Desire (PHD) days.

This is why I get incredibly frustrated reading some of the comments from fans who have recently started following this team, so have no perspective on how bad it could be.
Even the most stacked team in a cap era doesn't have more than a 30% chance of winning the cup any given year. I think Gillis has made it pretty clear he believe being amongst the contenders for a longer number of years > being clear cut favourites for a very small window.

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02-01-2013, 01:58 AM
  #220
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That evaluating a player over a small sample size (your goalies) isn't the way you run a team.
It's Nonis we are talking about. He will do nothing this year unless the leafs are a borderline playoff team then he'll deal his 2nd and 3rd for a couple of garbage rentals.

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02-01-2013, 02:22 AM
  #221
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I know there aren't too many others here interested in Drew Shore, but he's been really impressive defensively in Florida this year. Really small sample size, but he leads his team in Corsi so far being miles ahead of the next forward. He's also over 70% in faceoffs since his first game, and 66% overall. His +/- is among the best on his team too, being even when his team is getting outscored at a 2:1 ratio in games he's played.

If we end up dealing with Florida I hope we get this kid back.



More than a few want Shore. After Bjugstad was scratched off the list, Shore became the de facto "ask" as a replacement.

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02-01-2013, 02:26 AM
  #222
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Really? I thought that was Petrovic, with Howden being second. Guess you guys are brighter than I thought

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02-01-2013, 02:33 AM
  #223
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Really? I thought that was Petrovic, with Howden being second. Guess you guys are brighter than I thought
You know where I stand on this. Maybe long term there is redundancy with Gaunce but the kid can flat out play. May be the next Pahlson

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02-01-2013, 02:44 AM
  #224
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Really? I thought that was Petrovic, with Howden being second. Guess you guys are brighter than I thought

I in the Eye wanted Shore + Petrovic + 1st

DTS has posted deals with both Goc + Petrovic OR Shore

I've posted about Shore many times.

Vankiller Whale has made many proposals that include shore, and many other names.


That's just from memory alone. Shore is not an unknown around here. If he was, definitely not anymore after his AHL stint this year.

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02-01-2013, 02:47 AM
  #225
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Yeah, would definitely want Shore as part of any deal from Florida.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YogiCanucks View Post
Even the most stacked team in a cap era doesn't have more than a 30% chance of winning the cup any given year. I think Gillis has made it pretty clear he believe being amongst the contenders for a longer number of years > being clear cut favourites for a very small window.
How do you estimate that number btw?

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